Where to get new injectors or rebuild kit?

[Floridianson]

The engine was designed to be a multi fuel with a single hole injector but some where along the line they must have felt that the two hole was better. You could run the single hole and not notice any difference in performance or mileage. As for a better burn with the two hole I would not know but my bet yes.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I have pop tested both, the dual hole does atomizer the fuel better, but again imho, it's not worth the hassle to swap them over. Also you'll have to have the same injectors. There is at least 2 different style tips. If they aren't the same you can't swap them.

 

[rustystud]

Your right Floridianson about the calibration needed between single and double hole injectors. I was going to mention that you cannot mix them together. The single hole needs the fuel increased. Yes the two hole is also better, that is why when injectors where needed they where to be replaced with the two hole design. I got them since they are NOS so all the internal springs and valves are new, plus the tips can be changed out to the two hole tips. But really, in our applications the single hole design should work just fine. Just remember to increase the fuel if you originally had the two hole injectors or you will feel a little loss of power.

 

[frank8003]

Is that a riddle frank8003? I don't get it if it is.

Not a riddle, I'll have to take this over the the alt fuels part of the forums but it just seems to me
that the lower density and lubricity of straight new pump diesel is not good as the sole fuel for a multi fuel.
View attachment diesel-fuel-tech-review.pdf

 

[m715]

Rustystud==can you give more detail on changing the injector tips from one hole to the two hole tip? I have thought of doing this but was unsure of what is involved.

 

[Floridianson]

Rustystud==can you give more detail on changing the injector tips from one hole to the two hole tip? I have thought of doing this but was unsure of what is involved.

Here is a pic with AMBAC numbers for my two hole injector. Would be interesting if the numbers match for the single hole you guys got just a tip change.
Per the TM looks like the only difference would be how they are adjusted. One with shims the other with pressure adjusting screw. Only see two tip listed one hole or two and one would think the tips can be changed using correct tool as it is just threaded on. Wonder if the popping pressure is the same as some have said the ones they have had checked popped at 3500psi. In the troubleshooting for the LDS motor manual they were calling for a rebuild set to pop at 3000psi. Seems like 3500 would atomize better. Seems like no matter what the way to adjust the pressure shims or screw they would both perform the same on install if they had the same tips.

 

[Floridianson]

Just for smitts and giggles I took my two hole AMBAC injector apart. Just have to watch the parts order and if you tip it upside down parts will fall out. First tip holder then tip. Then what I am calling the alinement disc and it goes in with the beveled edge facing the tip and locks in with two pins. Then the small spring cap then spring then washer then pin tube. It's easer to install all parts with the injector standing up or tip up. The tip has three small holes and the disc has two pins and one small hole but the disc will only line up one way to the correct holes. Then when you go to put it back together the disc also has two pins and a hole on the other side and the pins line up with the injector housing. My AMBAC uses a allen head threaded plug to change the popping pressures.

 

[gimpyrobb]

So Rusty, the IP is responsible for fuel delivery, but the single hole injectors deliver less fuel? Could you go into a little more detail on that?

 

[rustystud]

So Rusty, the IP is responsible for fuel delivery, but the single hole injectors deliver less fuel? Could you go into a little more detail on that?

There is several places in the injection pump TM's that describe this, but here is just a sample of what I was trying to explain. I'm tired right now and will be going to bed soon, but you can research this for yourself if your concerned.

View attachment Scan0237.pdfView attachment Scan0238.pdf

I will just add this. I think your confusing "pressure" with "volume" . Think for a minute, which will flow more fluid. A 1/2" pipe at 100 PSI or 1" pipe at 100 PSI ? It's the same thing with the injectors. Remember your not using all the fluid the injection pump is putting out. That is why there is return lines off each injector.

 

[rustystud]

Just for smitts and giggles I took my two hole AMBAC injector apart. Just have to watch the parts order and if you tip it upside down parts will fall out. First tip holder then tip. Then what I am calling the alinement disc and it goes in with the beveled edge facing the tip and locks in with two pins. Then the small spring cap then spring then washer then pin tube. It's easer to install all parts with the injector standing up or tip up. The tip has three small holes and the disc has two pins and one small hole but the disc will only line up one way to the correct holes. Then when you go to put it back together the disc also has two pins and a hole on the other side and the pins line up with the injector housing. My AMBAC uses a allen head threaded plug to change the popping pressures.

The "MWO 9-2815-210-30/2" covers changing over to the two hole tip. You will need the nozzle holder No. 2910-861-1408 and tip No. 2910-860-2336 . That is all. All the rest of the parts totally interchange.

 

[m715]

Thank you, I needed a simple to understand answer.

 

[Floridianson]

I don't know how good those numbers will be as the printing was 1968 but I do have my numbers for the newer AMBAC injector tip.
My two hole tip is marked Italy 12-91 and NBM770138.

 

[Floridianson]

I'd like to know where you guys find new injectors at have been searching forever and can't find them. Or at least a rebuild kit I have a flow bench here and can rebuild just about any injector.

If you have two hole injectors myself I would just have those cleaned / checked. If you need new tips # NBM771038 then search the jbay auction sight and pick up just the new tips and pins and have them set for 3200psi. I just ordered 6 tips / pins myself just to have.

 

[rustystud]

I don't know how good those numbers will be as the printing was 1968 but I do have my numbers for the newer AMBAC injector tip.
My two hole tip is marked Italy 12-91 and NBM770138.

My intent wasn't so much the actual part numbers as the fact that you only needed the two part numbers to switch injector nozzles. Glad you found the "new numbers" though !

 

[97duallystroker]

Ok what's TM mean when you guys are talking? But yeah I've been building injectors for years. But am planning on possibly an Ip change and a set of injectors from a 478 herc they're same bodies and the same length overall...

 

[Floridianson]

TM = Technical Manuals. There is some at the cover page of Steel Soldiers and some in the Deuce forum.
I like the Trouble shooting the LDS-465-1 multifuel engine. Then there is the Tm 9-2910-226-34 here on the board.

 

[97duallystroker]

I'm fine with it not being mutifuel but like I said the 478 herc in the Oliver tractors, the 2050 NA and 2150 turbo the injector bodies and injector lengths are the same as LDT 465 and most likely LDS 465. I have one of each tractors both mfwd 4x4 tractors and am rebuilding my set in the 2150 and noticed they are the exact same injector the tips are different though. They are a 4 hole and offer a very nice atomization.

 

[rustystud]

I'm fine with it not being mutifuel but like I said the 478 herc in the Oliver tractors, the 2050 NA and 2150 turbo the injector bodies and injector lengths are the same as LDT 465 and most likely LDS 465. I have one of each tractors both mfwd 4x4 tractors and am rebuilding my set in the 2150 and noticed they are the exact same injector the tips are different though. They are a 4 hole and offer a very nice atomization.

The four hole tips might create a problem in the "multifuel" engine. The larger hole sprays a stream into the piston bowl, while the smaller hole is mostly a mist which fires off first and helps burn the fuel in the piston bowl. The fuel needs to burn "slowly" and completely.

 

[97duallystroker]

They have a hole in bottom of tip and 3 around the side. It's something I'm going to look into.

 

[Floridianson]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...8197B8174C3AE1D2AF9E8197B8174C3AE&FORM=WRVORC

Looks like both holes mist in the vid. Don't think a stream would atomize very well. Do believe they still mist but most of it is directed into the center of the piston instead of just the charged air that is coming in. This is for fuels that have low cetane number. That's why I believe the two hole works better no matter what the fuel. If your tips are streaming you might need new tips. Myself if I bought any of the 20 buck injectors I would still pop test them as they have been sitting for 40 years.
Also the TM has the test pop pressure 2800 /2850 and rebuilt set up at 3000psi. There have been people say they tested there injectors and they popped at 3500. The vid the guy said he checked his specs and they call for 3200. That is why I said before set them at 3200 as that is just about half way between 2850 per tm and the 3500 people say they found. There might be a perfect number between 2800 and 3500 but I don't know.