Engine restore oil additive and the multifuel

Aolinge1 · Dec 11, 2018

Hi all,

What are your thoughts on using oil additives like engine restore to the multifuel engine? Has anyone tried adding anything similar to theirs? I tried engine restore on my other cars and it has worked like a charm. According to their website it will work on any gas and diesel engine as long as it uses common rail fuel injection.

P.S. I'm not looking for an engine rebuild in a can, my deuce is fine as far as I know Haha just wanted to know all your thoughts.

Thanks!

doghead · Dec 11, 2018

If you like it , use it.

If it gives you confidence, use it.

If you think it's a waste of money, use it if you have the money to toss away(It might help and it most-likely will not hurt anything).

frank8003 · Dec 11, 2018

"Just wanted to know all your thoughts."

You would do better with some homemade Seafoam.
You would do better with no drain back oil filters.
One should change the motor oil often and adjust the valves.
You would do better with the best fuel filter system available.
You would do better by assuring the coolant is good and that the
engine runs under load and gets heat soaked.
You can put all different kinds of stuff in the fuel + lube oil
systems but don't really need to.

dmetalmiki · Dec 11, 2018

I put Molyslip Engine additive in everything we have that has an engine in it.
And all of 'Them' run better, quieter, and More economically as a result.
(Oh,(And Molyslip Transmission and gearbox additive to all the running components as well)).
Moly Grease On the winch ropes and in All grease nipples.
Door hinges.
Bonnet Hinges.
'Anything that needs to move well'.

(Hips..Knees..Elbows!(Just kidding)).

W.D.40 For them....(Just kidding!).

18operator · Dec 12, 2018

I use Lucas oil treatment in my engine. I think it makes the oil a lot slipperier. I know it's not a technical term. Haven't had any problems running it.

frank8003 · Dec 12, 2018

Here is your Seafoam
Fixing an engine is certainly a lot more expensive than original Sea Foam, so be careful if you decide to do any experimentation on your engine.
Recommended Recipe
4 parts Diesel 2 parts naphtha 1 part IPA

or you can just buy it ............................
Here is MSDS attachedView attachment seafoam motor treatment MSDS.pdf

Mine was already full of 30% store gas station new kinda diesel fuel {LS} and 65% new motor oil on continuous fuel tank fuel circulation so just dumped in a gallon of Naptha from HD and a gallon of Marvel mystery oil I had and a few other things (WD40 like stuff) that will burn. No gasoline as the corn stuff eats rubber. Truck never ran so good! Big engine with little HP and gobs of torque just ran really good with almost no smoke of any kind especially run hard and [mostly 1800 to 2100 RPM] load with engine heat soaked!

This was my 7000 lb machine I had and the reason I got the truck but then couldnt get it off the truck so I ran the Deuce around with it.

rustystud · Dec 13, 2018

frank8003 said:
Here is your Seafoam
Fixing an engine is certainly a lot more expensive than original Sea Foam, so be careful if you decide to do any experimentation on your engine.
Recommended Recipe
4 parts Diesel 2 parts naphtha 1 part IPA

or you can just buy it ............................
Here is MSDS attachedView attachment 750531

Mine was already full of 30% store gas station new kinda diesel fuel {LS} and 65% new motor oil on continuous fuel tank fuel circulation so just dumped in a gallon of Naptha from HD and a gallon of Marvel mystery oil I had and a few other things (WD40 like stuff) that will burn. No gasoline as the corn stuff eats rubber. Truck never ran so good! Big engine with little HP and gobs of torque just ran really good with almost no smoke of any kind especially run hard and [mostly 1800 to 2100 RPM] load with engine heat soaked!
View attachment 750533 View attachment 750534 View attachment 750535
This was my 7000 lb machine I had and the reason I got the truck but then couldnt get it off the truck so I ran the Deuce around with it.
View attachment 750536

Hey Frank, is that a "shaper" on the back of your deuce ? I've wanted one for years now. The things you can build with a shaper is just crazy !

frank8003 · Dec 13, 2018

I needed a good truck because a shaper was scrapped out at work. It was last run by me in about 1982.
It was like new. Many people said they wanted it and when I brought it home nobody wanted it. For a while I couldn't get it off the truck! I finally found someone to take it and they destroyed the lead screws getting it off the truck. Then I spent a few years fixing up the M3A2.
I still have the table and parts and the vise here, page 20 for vise, really really big vise.
This is not an ad, but is pictures for Rustystud and the general.
See the Steptoe handbook original attached.

View attachment steptoe-shaper-manual vise page 20.pdf

If Rustystud wants to drive over to here I will give him the vise and table and 7 ton rollabout. We will put him up to rest over before He heads to Alaska from here. Pick me up I'll go with you.
Me and Stuff is at zip 33334.

V8srfun · Dec 13, 2018

I have spent hours researching oil and additives and to sum it up I will say that they are not necessary. If you use any form of quality oil then the additive package in that oil is already engineered to the point that additives would disrupt the balance of the original base additive package. So essentially you can and most likely will spend money to make your oil worse than it was when you bought it. Then there is also the viscosity change most of these additives are so thick they barely pour out of the container think about the stress on your oil pump when that engine honey is cold. (I know people that live in cold climates and locked their oil pump up from these thick oil additives). Plus the delay in time to get the oil circulated because it does not move well especially when cold. I am not going to get in to pressure verse flow argument here but we all agree no flow is a problem.

The above statement is directed towards engine oil additives that claim lower friction and longer life. I do believe that some additives can be beneficial for other purposes. For example if you have a engine with hydraulic lifters and one is dirty you can add a half quart of atf to your oil a couple hundred miles before the oil change and it will almost always clean and quiet the lifter ( as long as it is not damaged but just dirty).

That at is my short basic conclusion on oil additives. I will not argue with anyone about it and if you disagree that is fine all I ask is please spend some time researching and you will find that most of these additives are designed specifically to lighten your wallet nothing more nothing less.

frank8003 · Dec 13, 2018

Ajax MD · Dec 13, 2018

I haven't read all of the articles, but it's very interesting reading. Frank, what is your background? Chemistry?
Based on all of these articles, what is your oil of preference for old military vehicles with unknown maintenance histories?

frank8003 · Dec 13, 2018

I haven't read all of the articles, but it's very interesting reading. Frank, what is your background?"
Background is: machinist mechanic toolmaking, used to help build machines and ships and subs and ran numerous + various power plants. Specialized in full five axis machines with 15+30 foot tables in '78, that is how I know secrets about Pi and pyramids.
My last three years I spent rebuilding test flowing jet engine dual fuel manifolds. Stoddard fluid.
I have followed lubrication since my first car- '55 Chevy I built being poor, and regressed (such is life) to my '51 Chevy which I put 90W in it to get it thru inspection, could hear the pistons slapping around in there, the bananas in the intake manifold and steel wool rammed up the tailpipe helped I bet. Note standard 55 chevys the oil filter was optional for a time, yadah yadi, don't get me going.

I just old fart and want everybody to know about lubrication which took me so long time to figure out.
Gee, what oil is in a new Vette or Lexus? Like 0-50W. I astonished. 'Tiss synthetic sewing machine whale oil!
When young the big argument was should put detergent oil into engines that never had any before. =NOT

So far I found that life is short and if one asks an studied engineer a good question then She/He will fill up ones' thoughts with wonderment, often leading to land of crystal clarity.

"Based on all of these articles, what is your oil of preference for old military vehicles with unknown maintenance histories?" Non Sequitur, tell me vehicle exact, engine and normal use first, Then I can state with a studied response. Me thinks I will always be an apprentice, but don't get paid anymore.
I have said since 16, that probably by the time I get it figured out I will then croak. Oh, well.

I said I run on and on and just did it again, but I found that if somebody asks a question then give a proper learned answer. It is like try to glean the information you want from reading/assimilating all available. One can at least get to the correct path of research that way.
View attachment motor oil engine oil july 1986 study a206053.pdf View attachment motor oil GF6_mobile1_pc11_dexos1_05292016.pdf View attachment motor oil TBN diesel engine oil Tech Bulletin TBN-Chevron.pdf View attachment motor oil zddp zdtp apism cj4 03132013.pdf

There is very learned people out here would just love to tell all they know. I just a Worker Bee.

GOTO this link and read it, interesting begin page 54
http://www.engineprofessional.com/EPQ4-2018/mobile/index.html#p=56

Garagefull · Dec 13, 2018

Find a large quantity of zinc additive. It has been phased out of oil almost completely, which is fine for the newer engines but not our old stuff.some of the racers that I hang around with our find camshaft break-in additive to get there zinc back in their oil.

frank8003 · Dec 13, 2018

Garagefull said:
Find a large quantity of zinc additive. It has been phased out of oil almost completely, which is fine for the newer engines but not our old stuff.some of the racers that I hang around with our find camshaft break-in additive to get there zinc back in their oil.

Zinc ZDDP 50 flavors three types
Here, read this ........................
http://www.themotorhood.com/themotorhood/2017/8/14/all-about-oil-lake-speed-jr-breaks-it-down

rustystud · Dec 13, 2018

frank8003 said:
Zinc ZDDP 50 flavors three types
Here, read this ........................
http://www.themotorhood.com/themotorhood/2017/8/14/all-about-oil-lake-speed-jr-breaks-it-down

Great article ! This guy is saying what I've been saying for years now. Older engines need ZDDP additives because of government intervention due to vehicle emissions. Period. Since no oil company makes the proper oil for our military vehicle anymore you must add a good ZDDP additive. Those who say differently due to "what they read somewhere" are misguided.
I experienced the cams being worn down in engines. I experienced the injection pumps failing due to low sulpher fuels. I experienced this as a mechanic in the shops. I didn't need to read it anywhere, I experienced it first hand.

Two Stroke Madness · Dec 14, 2018

You'd be farther ahead using a CF-2 rated SAE-40 oil. It already has the higher ZDDP levels, and it uses only balls and no sticks to lubricate with. It has about the same characteristics as the old CH-4 15W-40 except for the cold weather rating.

Ajax MD · Dec 14, 2018

frank8003 said:
Zinc ZDDP 50 flavors three types
Here, read this ........................
http://www.themotorhood.com/themotorhood/2017/8/14/all-about-oil-lake-speed-jr-breaks-it-down

The "three types" were covered in Frank's articles.

Ok, I get that our trucks need ZDDP in the oil but which of the 3 classes? Also, the articles indicate that not all additives play nice with all types of oil. So which additive/oil combination is safest with our engines and will protect them the best?

Frank rightly asked me what my "use case" is, so I'll state it here:

- Low annual mileage (so lots of storage time). I anticipate driving the truck at least twice monthly, for an hour each time.
- Low loads/higher idle times. I know diesels don't like this. I'm thinking of parade routes where you're poking along at 3-5 mph or idling in staging areas.
- Occasional light to moderate off-roading if I manage to make it to a rally somewhere.

So we're talking about doing that on a 47 year old truck that has no rebuild tags anywhere on the engine, with 54,000 miles and 1600 hours on the clock (but the gauges are always questionable).

V8srfun · Dec 14, 2018

In most cases off the shelf oil is more than sufficient for the use that a hobbyist is putting these engines through. When you start adding things to the oil you buy there can be adverse effects that you do not expect. Yes adding zddp sounds like a great idea and it may be in most cases but how is that excess of zddp going to effect the rest of your oils additives. I do not know enough about these things to want to play like I am a engineer. I will stick to a high quality oil and leave it at that. If you do research there are some oils out there with lots of zinc still in them (I believe Rotella is one of the ones with the highest amount off the shelf). In most cases you will not hurt your engine from additives but in my experience the proportion of engine failures that I have seen that could have been prevented from not using additives is greater than the proportion of failures that were caused by not using additives.

frank8003 · Dec 14, 2018

Ajax MD said:
The "three types" were covered ~
what my "use case" is, so I'll state it here: - Low annual mileage - - Low loads/higher idle times.
- Occasional light to moderate off-roading - 47 year old truck {engine} 54,000 miles 1600 hours

Forget the mileage, engine doesn't know how far it has gone or where it has been. It is a tactical military vehicle built to be run hard, used hot, like any other weapon. I use only xxxxyy oil, extensive research leads me to believe that if the manufacture actually formulates that oil as published then my truck will last another 50 years.

The original specification lubricant for that multifuel engine is xxxxxx which is no longer available.
XXXXYY oil is available now will give it all it needs.
Very important to change out, recycle or burn in the stove the crankcase oil. Don't put that into the fuel tank as the soot in it will eat inner workings of the HH and for sure other parts. Some don't like to change the lube oil ($125) but that is how you get the longevity. Oil has to get to design temperature to work as per design.
That is my answer for the moment, I now going to go and to better collate my 16.6GB of files to find proper answer to proper questions. I have my/Your answers and will post, just a bit busy right now.

Note my opinion that every surviving multifuel should have new lube filters, specifically http://www.jatonkam35s.com/SPINONADAPTERKITS.htm as the engine design is to drain ALL the lube oil into the pan on shutdown so then it takes a long long long time to get lube oil to the turbo on start up.
I hated that, I like the 8 second lag much more, just an opinion.

This is all part of the hobby. Has to be a hobby 'cause We ain't gettin paid for it.
Here is seven applicable to read for now................
View attachment 2 motor oil rotella t Engine Oil Mythology 2-2007.pdf View attachment 3 GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140001864679_2989.pdf View attachment motor Oil Grade Index.pdf View attachment motor oil lubrication in practice M715.pdf View attachment motor oil oils_and_zddp.pdf View attachment motor oil rotella T msds.PDF View attachment motor oil ZDDPlus 08082008.pdf

frank8003 · Dec 14, 2018

V8srfun said:
In most cases off the shelf oil is more than sufficient for the use that a hobbyist is putting these engines through~. I do not know enough about these things to want to play like I am a engineer. I will stick to a high quality oil and leave it at that.~ If you do research~

I agree. Ain't it a wonderful world where can just go buy the stuff to protect the hobby truck and not to worry.
I even changed the oil quite a few times to clean her out.
Pictures for the General.

oil filter changes 10232015 IMG_7717.jpg

truck engine oil filter temp IMG_3010.jpg

Lake speed Jr. studies this for a living so here is a good one, repost,
http://www.themotorhood.com/themotorhood/2017/8/14/all-about-oil-lake-speed-jr-breaks-it-down

Engine restore oil additive and the multifuel

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