Glow Plug Grounding Issue

[jplace1011]

My M1009 won’t start, it tries but doesn’t turn over. I replaced the Glow Plug Relay, Glow Plug Card, The Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (the sensor at the back of the engine drivers side). Months back I also replaced The Engine Coolant Temperature Switch, the sensor that’s at the back of the engine passengers side. *the pic of the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor is the old one

I’ve cleaned all the connections in the box that holds the glow plug card, I even cleaned the 6 Pin Connection that some of the wires from the glow plug box go into. After I did that, my Seat Belt Buzzer started working again, just a side note.

I removed the glow plug card and stuffed one end of a wire into the metal tongs/pinchers where the card connects and the Thin Blue Wire comes out behind these pinchers. The other end of the wire I grounded and Click the solenoid engaged.

I did the same thing with a wire into the pinchers that have the black wire coming out of the back. I grounded the other end of the wire, but No Click.

All in all it seems like something isn’t being grounded. If I’m correct, the Black Wire (Ground?) runs from the back of the glow plug box into the 6 Pin connector, from there I see the wires go up into/towards the steering column.

I can get it to start if I place one end of a wire onto the Relay (where the Thin Blue Wire rests) and the other end onto a piece of metal inside the engine compartment. This grounds it and I can hear the solenoid click and it will start afterwards.

Am I missing something, is there something else to replace, check or clean, etc.?

I appreciate any help! Thank You!

UPDATE below:

I watched some video I shot while repairing things. I noticed that a wire has a frayed end. This wire runs from the Engine Ground to the Fuse Box, I’m almost sure. I just shot another clip to verify. Maybe this is the cause?!

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[Skinny]

I'm guessing if your engine starts when manually activating the solenoid the issue is the car, wiring, or temp sender.

If you replaced the sender then the card is the onlu thing left.

I'd go through and replace all the glow plugs with the newer ACG60s, modify the wiring, and replace the card with the upgraded one for sale here. Then you know it's in good wiring order.

 

[jplace1011]

I'm guessing if your engine starts when manually activating the solenoid the issue is the car, wiring, or temp sender.

If you replaced the sender then the card is the onlu thing left.

I'd go through and replace all the glow plugs with the newer ACG60s, modify the wiring, and replace the card with the upgraded one for sale here. Then you know it's in good wiring order.

Skinny,

Thanks for the reply!

I just discovered something, I posted it above. A few quick videos to confirm.


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[MarcusOReallyus]

My M1009 won’t start, it tries but doesn’t turn over.

If the starter motor makes the engine go round and round, it does turn over.

I think you mean it doesn't START. That's not what "turns over" means.


I don't think that "frayed wire" is stock. That yellow connector was crimped on with a pair of pliers or some other idiot method. (That kind of stupidity is why crimp connections have a bad reputation.)

It might be some PO's workaround for a bad ground under the dash. You should check for that.

Up near the parking brake you should find a spider-looking thingy (usually pretty rusted) screwed to the parking brake assembly, or close to it. It's got 6 places for a .250 connector to be attached. Unless it's been messed with, there will be one black wire connected to it. That is the ONE grounding point for everyting in the cab, including your GP card. If that ain't right, your GP card won't make things happen.

 

[vanaisa]

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachments/ground-jpg.478580/

 

[jplace1011]

If the starter motor makes the engine go round and round, it does turn over.

I think you mean it doesn't START. That's not what "turns over" means.


I don't think that "frayed wire" is stock. That yellow connector was crimped on with a pair of pliers or some other idiot method. (That kind of stupidity is why crimp connections have a bad reputation.)

It might be some PO's workaround for a bad ground under the dash. You should check for that.

Up near the parking brake you should find a spider-looking thingy (usually pretty rusted) screwed to the parking brake assembly, or close to it. It's got 6 places for a .250 connector to be attached. Unless it's been messed with, there will be one black wire connected to it. That is the ONE grounding point for everyting in the cab, including your GP card. If that ain't right, your GP card won't make things happen.

Thanks for the replay sir! I know exactly what part your talking about. I’ve seen it before. I will check that out to make sure nothing it loose. Maybe that’s all it is! Good looking out!


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[jplace1011]

If the starter motor makes the engine go round and round, it does turn over.

I think you mean it doesn't START. That's not what "turns over" means.


I don't think that "frayed wire" is stock. That yellow connector was crimped on with a pair of pliers or some other idiot method. (That kind of stupidity is why crimp connections have a bad reputation.)

It might be some PO's workaround for a bad ground under the dash. You should check for that.

Up near the parking brake you should find a spider-looking thingy (usually pretty rusted) screwed to the parking brake assembly, or close to it. It's got 6 places for a .250 connector to be attached. Unless it's been messed with, there will be one black wire connected to it. That is the ONE grounding point for everyting in the cab, including your GP card. If that ain't right, your GP card won't make things happen.

Found it, but nothing was loose, etc. Still no clicking from the relay. Good idea though!


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[royalflush55]

Found it, but nothing was loose, etc. Still no clicking from the relay. Good idea though!


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There may not be anything loose but it is corroded and rusty. Take it apart and clean everything up with wire brush and penetrating oil or some kind of solvent until rust is gone. Check wires for green buildup inside the connectors. When everything is clean put it back together with dielectric grease coating everything including the bolt.

 

[frank8003]

Found it, but nothing was loose, etc. Still no clicking from the relay. Good idea though!


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To me, if that ONE grounding connector is so important, epecially being easy to get at, I would disable the batteries and pull that thing and give it a 100% refurbishment to "as new" condition. As in even new star washers. One thing at a time and I would start at the grounds. Sometimes the little electrons don't want to jump, gottah give electrons/holes every chance they can get. I would, Yes I would, run a heavy jumper ground to something heavy and bolted solid as in the ground photos supplied by Vanaisa, attached.

 

[jplace1011]

To me, if that ONE grounding connector is so important, epecially being easy to get at, I would disable the batteries and pull that thing and give it a 100% refurbishment to "as new" condition. As in even new star washers. One thing at a time and I would start at the grounds. Sometimes the little electrons don't want to jump, gottah give electrons/holes every chance they can get. I would, Yes I would, run a heavy jumper ground to something heavy and bolted solid as in the ground photos supplied by Vanaisa, attached.

Cleaning that ground piece with the 6 prongs/connectors is a great idea guys. I’ve only had this vehicle just over a year. During all of this I’ve discovered how absolutely filthy it is underneath the dash.

After that I’ll work on getting the end of that ground wire repaired. The one with a Circle connection at the end.

I’ll report back, thank you thank you!


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[Squibbly]

If the starter motor makes the engine go round and round, it does turn over.

If the starter motor makes your engine go round and round, your engine mounts are broken. If it makes your crank go round and round, you're good.

My brother @Rocknus did this video, where he went through the whole glow plug relay wiring issue (as well as faulty starter relay wiring and horn wiring) in his M1028. May be useful.

 

[jplace1011]

If the starter motor makes your engine go round and round, your engine mounts are broken. If it makes your crank go round and round, you're good.

My brother @Rocknus did this video, where he went through the whole glow plug relay wiring issue (as well as faulty starter relay wiring and horn wiring) in his M1028. May be useful.

Oooh yeah!! I’ve been messaging him for advice. Thanks for the video though, it’s very good!

*UPDATE* Today I cleaned a handful of plugs, connections, and fixed the frayed end of the thin ground wire. I have to now think the Card is Bad? The other day I got it to Click when I stuffed a wire and grounded it where the Thin Blue Wire is. If it we’re anything else, like a bad ground, bad connection, wouldn’t it have not clicked?

I stuffed a wire into the card holder where the Thin Blue Wire comes out the back. Then I turned the Key to the On Position and grounded the other end of the wire. It clicked.

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[MarcusOReallyus]

If the starter motor makes your engine go round and round, your engine mounts are broken. If it makes your crank go round and round, you're good.

 

[Squibbly]

Oooh yeah!! I’ve been messaging him for advice. Thanks for the video though, it’s very good!

*UPDATE* Today I cleaned a handful of plugs, connections, and fixed the frayed end of the thin ground wire. I have to now think the Card is Bad? The other day I got it to Click when I stuffed a wire and grounded it where the Thin Blue Wire is. If it we’re anything else, like a bad ground, bad connection, wouldn’t it have not clicked?

I stuffed a wire into the card holder where the Thin Blue Wire comes out the back. Then I turned the Key to the On Position and grounded the other end of the wire. It clicked.

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So what *do* you know?
You know you have power when you turn the key or the relay wouldn't pop when you grounded the blue wire, and since you grounded it in the plug itself you know the wire isn't broken from the module to the relay. You know the positive from the battery to the relay is good or turning the key would have no effect, which means the pink/blk wire connected to the relay and going into the GP module is picking up the voltage from the key turn. You know the relay itself it good, because if you ground the blue wire post it clicks.

So you ask "What does the GP module need to decide if it's going to throw ground to the relay?
It needs power and to sense there is power. (We know it has power from your test above)
It needs the temp sensor to tell it the engine is cold or not. (You replaced that)
It needs all the components on the PCB to be good and not blown (You replaced that).
If it's cold it throws ground for 10 seconds using the Timer IC. I don't have the board, so I don't know what all the components are that would make decisions and how, I assume that the "wait" lightbulb can't be blown (does that bulb turn on?), as the schematic has it as part of the circuit, and the fuse needs to be good. Jump the dark blue wire to ground (with the key in the run position) and see if that light turns on.

Get out the voltmeter and run through these tests with the GP module out at each pin.



It would be kind of messed up if all you needed this whole time was a fuse or bulb.

That's why you jump the blue wire to a momentary switch, so if that card ever goes bad you have a backup plan. You could run a wire with a connector on it, right out of the firewall and to the post the blue wire is connected to if you don't want to tap into that wire directly, throw a switch in the mix and ground to the other side of it.

As they say in the military "two is one, one is none". Someone should have told Chevy.

I don't even have a GP module in mine (I might get one some day to have a Plan A). I let my brain do all the work for now (which is essentially having the ability to count to 10 while simultaneously pushing a button).

 

[jplace1011]

So what *do* you know?
You know you have power when you turn the key or the relay wouldn't pop when you grounded the blue wire, and since you grounded it in the plug itself you know the wire isn't broken from the module to the relay. You know the positive from the battery to the relay is good or turning the key would have no effect, which means the pink/blk wire connected to the relay and going into the GP module is picking up the voltage from the key turn. You know the relay itself it good, because if you ground the blue wire post it clicks.

So you ask "What does the GP module need to decide if it's going to throw ground to the relay?
It needs power and to sense there is power. (We know it has power from your test above)
It needs the temp sensor to tell it the engine is cold or not. (You replaced that)
It needs all the components on the PCB to be good and not blown (You replaced that).
If it's cold it throws ground for 10 seconds using the Timer IC. I don't have the board, so I don't know what all the components are that would make decisions and how, I assume that the "wait" lightbulb can't be blown (does that bulb turn on?), as the schematic has it as part of the circuit, and the fuse needs to be good. Jump the dark blue wire to ground (with the key in the run position) and see if that light turns on.

Get out the voltmeter and run through these tests with the GP module out at each pin.

View attachment 852651

It would be kind of messed up if all you needed this whole time was a fuse or bulb.

That's why you jump the blue wire to a momentary switch, so if that card ever goes bad you have a backup plan. You could run a wire with a connector on it, right out of the firewall and to the post the blue wire is connected to if you don't want to tap into that wire directly, throw a switch in the mix and ground to the other side of it.

As they say in the military "two is one, one is none". Someone should have told Chevy.

I don't even have a GP module in mine (I might get one some day to have a Plan A). I let my brain do all the work for now (which is essentially having the ability to count to 10 while simultaneously pushing a button).

Wow! You know your stuff man!!

I double checked all of the Fuses today, none were blown.

The Wait Light does turn On.

The 4 Wheel Drive and Oil Lights don’t work, they haven’t since I purchased the vehicle a year ago. They don’t work because the blue colored circuit board in that area is loose from the back of the dash. I’m assuming there’s no good contact for those 2 bulbs. I doubt that matters but thought I’d mention it.

The bulb that is just in front of the 2 wheel/4 wheel drive shifter, maybe it’s called a map lamp, is out. It’s never worked either. I’m actually going to replace that tomorrow. Not sure if that matters either.

That page that lists the Test Routine looks good. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t really know how to use a Voltmeter. I do have a good one. I am unsure of where to put the dial/settings for it. Any advice?

I’ll pull the new card out and if I can figure out how to use the voltmeter, I’ll test the contacts. I don’t know if my Old Card is any good, but I’ll put that back in and test it. Not much to lose doing that.

Thank you for all of your advice and input. I appreciate you!

I’ll report back!


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[Squibbly]

Wow! You know your stuff man!!

I double checked all of the Fuses today, none were blown.

The Wait Light does turn On.

The 4 Wheel Drive and Oil Lights don’t work, they haven’t since I purchased the vehicle a year ago. They don’t work because the blue colored circuit board in that area is loose from the back of the dash. I’m assuming there’s no good contact for those 2 bulbs. I doubt that matters but thought I’d mention it.

The bulb that is just in front of the 2 wheel/4 wheel drive shifter, maybe it’s called a map lamp, is out. It’s never worked either. I’m actually going to replace that tomorrow. Not sure if that matters either.

That page that lists the Test Routine looks good. I’m embarrassed to say I don’t really know how to use a Voltmeter. I do have a good one. I am unsure of where to put the dial/settings for it. Any advice?

I’ll pull the new card out and if I can figure out how to use the voltmeter, I’ll test the contacts. I don’t know if my Old Card is any good, but I’ll put that back in and test it. Not much to lose doing that.

Thank you for all of your advice and input. I appreciate you!

I’ll report back!


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I’ll do a video for you on how to check all those wires using a voltmeter today if you haven’t already solved it by then. It’ll help someone else later I suppose.

The only bulb that would matter in this circuit (and it may not. It all depends on what the GP Module is doing with it) is that wait light. It doesn't really matter, because the test sequence to determine if your board is bad or not is in the picture I posted above.

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[Squibbly]

Holy Moly...

I have been so busy fixing the mechanical issues on this truck I haven't really looked too much at the wiring.
Not that I'm f***ing suprised at this point with what the PO did to this truck after I saw the rear starter bracket shoved up above the starter about a millimeter from the 24V + cable, but here is what was under the hood.

All of the GP module cables are just tied up, and he ran a single ground wire from the relay (which is mounted with one bolt) to the switch in the cab. It's simple and it works, but good god, man, have a little pride...




Seems like a job for "Danger Squibbly", my alter ego.

My video on how to test this with a multimeter per the TM will need to be "in spirit" only, until I can get this put back together.

 

[Squibbly]

Here you go. It got late. My videos are quick hits and aren't very good. They aren't really for public consumption like my brothers, so I keep them unlisted. I didn't get to Ohms, because it was too dark, and I don't have enough hands. I'll film that during daylight. I think that needs to be tested by removing the plug from the temp sensor.

I'll remake this video when my wires are actually setup correctly. My brother has a spare card that is burned up he's going to send me. I'll fix it and redo this vid.

Hopefully this gets you most of the way there.

 

[jplace1011]

Here you go. It got late. My videos are quick hits and aren't very good. They aren't really for public consumption like my brothers, so I keep them unlisted. I didn't get to Ohms, because it was too dark, and I don't have enough hands. I'll film that during daylight. I think that needs to be tested by removing the plug from the temp sensor.

I'll remake this video when my wires are actually setup correctly. My brother has a spare card that is burned up he's going to send me. I'll fix it and redo this vid.

Hopefully this gets you most of the way there.

Squibbly!! Great video man! Thank you Thank You for doing that and sharing.

I know what you mean about not having enough hands. I think that every time I’m working on my CUCV. If only I had someone to hold this while I do that, etc.

Johnny had me test the wires today. I video recorded my results and sent them his way. I’m really thinking it’s the Card. My only other thought is the Ignition Switch?

I just emailed John (now how many John’s is that??) at Hillbilly Wizard about exchanging it. Once I get another New Card I should have a verdict!

Thank you again for the video, now I know how to use that Voltmeter thingy!!

I’ll Update Soon!


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[jplace1011]

Squibbly!! Great video man! Thank you Thank You for doing that and sharing.

I know what you mean about not having enough hands. I think that every time I’m working on my CUCV. If only I had someone to hold this while I do that, etc.

Johnny had me test the wires today. I video recorded my results and sent them his way. I’m really thinking it’s the Card. My only other thought is the Ignition Switch?

I just emailed John (now how many John’s is that??) at Hillbilly Wizard about exchanging it. Once I get another New Card I should have a verdict!

Thank you again for the video, now I know how to use that Voltmeter thingy!!

I’ll Update Soon!


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The Courtesy Lamp hasn’t worked, so I put a new bulb in. I turned it on and it worked for a second then turned off and wouldn’t work.

The next day or so I did a few more tests for the Glow Plug Card Holder. The Seatbelt buzzer wasn’t working and neither were some of the dash lights. Sure enough the No. 17 (20 amp) fuse was blown. So I replaced it and things started working including the Courtesy Light.

Several Months ago the same fuse would blow now and then and the CUCV wouldn’t start until I changed it. The prior owner mentioned this to me. I ended up changing the High Idle Switch/Cold Advance Solenoid (passengers side rear area) and the fuse didn’t blow again.

Back to Now, I’m thinking that Switch should be replaced. I’ll replace it and see if it blows again.

When I changed the Fuse out I also put my old Glow Plug Card back in (I sent the New one back and am awaiting a replacement). Sure enough the CUCV started right up!

I think it’s Safe to say the New Card Was likely the Problem! I’ll know for sure once I put the New New (the replacement) Card in.

Could the Fuse Blowing have been from anything else, besides that Switch going bad? Could I have blown it any other way while testing the New Relay, Glow Plug Card Holder Box, etc.?


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