Class E in GA still a viable option?

[coachgeo]

Side note about using the out of state LLC route to get registered. If I understand it right the exotic foreign car re-sell companies in GA; who mostly exclusively helped folk get the cars registered via the out of state LLC route, have realllllly pissed off the GA DMV and Law Enforcement. Point being..... the loops holes from that route may be closed or closing in GA cause of their abuse of the system.

 

[Third From Texas]

Side note about using the out of state LLC route to get registered. If I understand it right the exotic foreign car re-sell companies in GA; who mostly exclusively helped folk get the cars registered via the out of state LLC route, have realllllly pissed off the GA DMV and Law Enforcement. Point being..... the loops holes from that route may be closed or closing in GA cause of their abuse of the system.

The issue there is potential lost tax income. That's the only loophole they could potentially close. People register million-dollar RVs out of state to ditch state/local sale taxes and that adds up enough to pop up on radar (especially in "tax rape" states where they pile on the extra taxes for nice things).

But aside from the potential tax-dodging accusations, it's still very much legal in all 50 states. It's not abusing the system. It's 100% legal for me to drive a company car owned by my out-of-state employer (and the same applies to LLC's or any business entity). There is NO WAY a state can claim that a legal vehicle registered in another state cannot be driven on their state roadways (that violates reciprocity and opens a whole can of worms like GA deciding to no longer allow NY trucks on their interstate highways, so then NY bans GA trucks, etc, etc). The GA DMV and LEO can huff and puff all they like, they can't prevent an elsewhere-legally-registered vehicle from driving on their streets....

 

[Tow4]

If your state requires you to take a class or program for a CDL, a lot of community colleges offer them. That is what I did because back then (2011) it cost less than the Roadways etc. I thought it was better training also. The down side is they may run it as a full time class. Look around to find one that works for you.

As far as registering your vehicle through an out of state corporation, if you want to go to the trouble and expense, you can. Back in the '80's I had a friend from the UK that was here in the US working on a Green card. He could not own a US registered aircraft, but a corporation could, and he could own the corporation. That's what he did.

I currently have a friend that lives in his RV. He and his wife do not own a house. he is a Florida resident and his RV is registered in Florida. But, since he works remotely, he can live anywhere there is an internet connection, and he does. If he was originally from a state that had less than desirable tax laws etc., why wouldn't you make your residence a state that was more to your liking? The key here, is they live in the RV and it is registered wherever their state of residence is.

In your first post, your main concern was the possible CDL requirement. Unless you register it as a RV, you can't get around the CDL requirement if the vehicle weight falls within the CDL range.

The thing to consider, is the ongoing expense and trouble of a corporation or remote registration worth it or really necessary? For a several hundred $K aircraft or RV, maybe. For a 5 or 10K toy truck, not to me. Don't do something just because you can.

 

[Derk]

After speaking with the DMV the class E is a no go. It's either CDL or nothing (I'm not willing to deal with out of state LLC situation). So I guess if I wanna get one of these it's gonna have to be a CDL. That's unfortunate...

 

[Green Mountain Boys]

Georgia Department of Driver's Services has a Commercial Drive's Manual. Page 6 has a flow chart that shows the requirements to determine the class of the vehicle. Note that none of those requirements are dependent on how the truck is being used. It does not matter if you are pulling your boat to the lake to do some fishing or your excavator to a job site. There is an exception for RVs in most states but not all.
https://online.flipbuilder.com/hatf/pbsd/
IF that trailer is more than 5 tons you need a Class A CDL (That means IF it is capable of carrying a total of more than 5 tons even if it is empty)
Keep the truck under 26,000lbs and the trailer under 5 tons and you do not need a CDL (This is the total of what the truck is rated for) Some states will allow you to register your truck for less than the GCWR. I did this once with an International with a GCWR of 28K and I registered it for 26K and a Class C driver's license. I kept my weight to the registered weight and never had any issues.

When I registered my 1998 M1078 I just handed the young lady all the paper work I had and asked her what I needed. (I thought I already knew, but I wanted to see what she said) She said I did not need a CDL or air endorsement.

The state police here in Vermont have recently began targeting landscapers with 1 ton and 3/4 ton trucks pulling trailers rated at over 5 tons because most of these drivers do not have a Class A CDL.

 

[Derk]

Georgia Department of Driver's Services has a Commercial Drive's Manual. Page 6 has a flow chart that shows the requirements to determine the class of the vehicle. Note that none of those requirements are dependent on how the truck is being used. It does not matter if you are pulling your boat to the lake to do some fishing or your excavator to a job site. There is an exception for RVs is most states but not all.
https://online.flipbuilder.com/hatf/pbsd/
IF that trailer is more than 5 tons you need a Class A CDL (That means IF it is capable of carrying a total of more than 5 tons even if it is empty)
Keep the truck under 26,000lbs and the trailer under 5 tons and you do not need a CDL (This is the total of what the truck is rated for) Some states will allow you to register your truck for less than the GCWR. I did this once with an International with a GCWR of 28K and I registered it for 26K and a Class C driver's license. I kept my weight to the registered weight and never had any issues.

When I registered my 1998 M1078 I just handed the young lady all the paper work I had and asked her what I needed. (I thought I already knew, but I wanted to see what she said) She said I did not need a CDL or air endorsement.

The state police here in Vermont have recently began targeting landscapers with 1 ton and 3/4 ton trucks pulling trailers rated at over 5 tons because most of these drivers do not have a Class A CDL.

So what you're saying is pick up a LMTV which is a GVWR under 26K lbs and go for it. After all it is under 26k lbs total so should be okay. I guess the only question is if GA requires the CDL anyway because if air brakes.

 

[Green Mountain Boys]

The flow chart does not show air brakes as a trigger for a CDL.

 

[Derk]

The flow chart does not show air brakes as a trigger for a CDL.

All I'd ever "trailer" with it would be an open car hauler trailer with my single 3k lb car on it so I should actually be good to go as long as I pick up an LMTV. Hmm this may actually work after all. I really don't need an MTV for my application and in fact would be more headache than anything.

 

[Mullaney]

All I'd ever "trailer" with it would be an open car hauler trailer with my single 3k lb car on it so I should actually be good to go as long as I pick up an LMTV. Hmm this may actually work after all. I really don't need an MTV for my application and in fact would be more headache than anything.

.
Good plan - and like you mentioned earlier in the thread - 4 tires rather than 6 should equal better mileage (minimal) and it will definitely cost you less when you need tires...

.

 

[donbecker]

As luck would have it, I'm rarely on the forum but am in GA and have been researching dump trucks for non-commercial.

To OP, have you seen the GA non-commercial CDL?

https://www.lgrms.com/LGRMS/media/Files/160004-NonCommercialABManual-(3).pdf

Must pass any Knowledge Exams which would normally
be required of applicants for a Commercial Driver’s License for the type of vehicle driven. Refer to the CDL
Driver’s Manual for specific information to study for the
Knowledge Exam.
Must complete a Driving Affidavit (DS-36) attesting that
a minimum of 3 months or 3,000 miles of driving experience has been completed in a vehicle which represents
the license class. An instructional permit may be issued
for a 12 month period if this cannot be provided. There
is not a Road Test Requirement.

 

[Derk]

As luck would have it, I'm rarely on the forum but am in GA and have been researching dump trucks for non-commercial.

To OP, have you seen the GA non-commercial CDL?

https://www.lgrms.com/LGRMS/media/Files/160004-NonCommercialABManual-(3).pdf

Must pass any Knowledge Exams which would normally
be required of applicants for a Commercial Driver’s License for the type of vehicle driven. Refer to the CDL
Driver’s Manual for specific information to study for the
Knowledge Exam.
Must complete a Driving Affidavit (DS-36) attesting that
a minimum of 3 months or 3,000 miles of driving experience has been completed in a vehicle which represents
the license class. An instructional permit may be issued
for a 12 month period if this cannot be provided. There
is not a Road Test Requirement.

This is now called a class E and F in GA and after calling the DMV and by the documents own admission is not applicable to me or anyone else that wants to just own a retired military vehicle. It must be for farm use, emergency use, or military use. If you were able to get it by saying I'm driving a military vehicle you may be able to sneak it but the knowledgeable person at the DMV told me if you ever got in an accident insurance would cover nothing as that class license is not for regular people to drive X military vehicles. If it's over 26k lbs gross vehicle weight then it requires a CDL. However she did say that airbrakes didn't matter and the LMTV that is under the 26k lbs GVWR would be fine for a normal class C license. MTV is a no go which is okay in my case.

 

[donbecker]

This is now called a class E and F in GA and after calling the DMV and by the documents own admission is not applicable to me or anyone else that wants to just own a retired military vehicle. It must be for farm use, emergency use, or military use. If you were able to get it by saying I'm driving a military vehicle you may be able to sneak it but the knowledgeable person at the DMV told me if you ever got in an accident insurance would cover nothing as that class license is not for regular people to drive X military vehicles. If it's over 26k lbs gross vehicle weight then it requires a CDL. However she did say that airbrakes didn't matter and the LMTV that is under the 26k lbs GVWR would be fine for a normal class C license. MTV is a no go which is okay in my case.

Did you happen to find out how the qualify "farm use"? Do you have to have your farm registered as a formal business or LLC?

 

[Derk]

Did you happen to find out how the qualify "farm use"? Do you have to have your farm registered as a formal business or LLC?

I did not and that's a good question. I couldn't even fake having a farm where I live. All though farm may also have some distance restrictions but I'm not sure. Being that I would get an LMTV that's the route I'm going to go so I gave up on the CDL matter once I realized that.

 

[donbecker]

I did not and that's a good question. I couldn't even fake having a farm where I live. All though farm may also have some distance restrictions but I'm not sure. Being that I would get an LMTV that's the route I'm going to go so I gave up on the CDL matter once I realized that.

Apologies if I missed it in one of the earlier posts, but my interpretation of the doc I linked (maybe it's outdated?) is that the Farm, Military and Emergency vehicle section just says "in those specific cases, you NEED a non-commercial CDL".

The requirements on either Class A or B are:
1. GVWR of 26,001 needs a CDL
2. Towing over 10k lbs needs Class A
3. Towing under 10k lbs only needs Class B

And for the non-commercial CDL in GA, based on the doc (outdated?) you just need to pass written test and either have experience and sign a form saying so, or you get a 12 month permit to get the experience.

Again, would be great to know if you've found that the doc I have is outdated, I haven't had a chance to call DMV yet.

---update---

Googled around abit:
Non-Commercial E and F: https://dds.georgia.gov/how-do-i-non-commercial-e-and-f

Non-Commercial EP and FP: https://dds.georgia.gov/how-do-i-non-commercial-ep-and-fp

It seems P means Provisional? Instructional permits: https://www.edrivermanuals.com/georgia/driver/non-commercial-classes/

I think you can register a normal Ford Truck as either an ordinary non-commercial truck, or as a farm/agricultural truck.

So to take that logic further, I wonder if you can just say that you're registering a military dump truck like you would register a normal dump truck that never had a military use?

 

[donbecker]

To add, look at this page, way at the bottom: https://dds.georgia.gov/how-do-i-non-commercial-ep-and-fp

They list agricultural, firefighter/emergency, military....and then "other":


Other

• The Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (GVWR) determines the class of driver's license being issued.
• There are no endorsements for non-commercial Class EP or FP permits.

So even if the vehicle you had was once used by the military, you're not actually a member of the military that would meet their restrictions.

And your endorsement on your license, your class, is just about what vehicles you can operate, and a separate issue from the registration of the vehicle.

 

[Derk]

To add, look at this page, way at the bottom: https://dds.georgia.gov/how-do-i-non-commercial-ep-and-fp

They list agricultural, firefighter/emergency, military....and then "other":


Other

• The Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (GVWR) determines the class of driver's license being issued.
• There are no endorsements for non-commercial Class EP or FP permits.

So even if the vehicle you had was once used by the military, you're not actually a member of the military that would meet their restrictions.

And your endorsement on your license, your class, is just about what vehicles you can operate, and a separate issue from the registration of the vehicle.

So this is essentially confirming my issue with the class E correct? That it is only for people like emergency responders and ACTUAL military? Either way I'm going to avoid this all by getting an LMTV to keep under the 26k lbs GVWR.

Now i just need to find in this forum a place yo read up on what kind of maintenance I'm going to have to do and how often. While it'll mostly be an on road rig, I'm nervous at the frequency of maintenance on some things.

 

[patracy]

So what you're saying is pick up a LMTV which is a GVWR under 26K lbs and go for it. After all it is under 26k lbs total so should be okay. I guess the only question is if GA requires the CDL anyway because if air brakes.

No. They don't.

 

[SETOYOTA]

The class e is easy. i have one. It was formally known as a class A non-cdl. You self certify that you have the driving experience and take the cdl written test.

 

[SETOYOTA]

The class e is for anyone who is not commercial but plans to drive a commercial like vehicle.