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The next Project an ASMH

WillWagner

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OK, tomorrow we are gonna start trying to get the wrecker into the shop area. I am not familiar with these. Big 'ol gasser under the hood. The plan was to pull it out of it's spot, just enough to get behind it, and push it into the shop area, which involves a tight right and dog leg, down about 100 yds, then a second tight right/dog leg, into the back about 30 yards then a very tight right into one of the bays.

I know that in a running, on non running deuce, it is tight and usually is a two or three point turn. I have zero idea on how easy this is to maneuver without the engine running, I think it is power assisted steering when the engine runs.

My question is, should I make it run where it is at for steering, or does one of these, when not running, steer easily enough to make the turns?

My gut says make it run, because I would hate to get the thing stuck in a spot that blocks the fire access and have it stay there....just in case, there has been a fire that necessitated the FD to access it through the Museum grounds. Plus, I'm thinkin' that pulling on the wheel won't do my neck any good.

We need a wrecker!
 

Guyfang

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I drove some of the last 5 ton gassers, in 32nd AADCOM in 1973, to the bone yard. We had to tow a few. They were a super PITA to steer without the truck running, or rolling. I would try and start it. Might be a lot of work, but might save you tearing up your shoulders!
 

WillWagner

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Not worried about shoulders, the neck is what messes with me since surgery, that, and since the neck stuff, I ain't as strong as I used to be.. Getting it up and going in place MIGHT be fairly easy since it was de-fueled and was running off of a pony tank. I do know brakes will be non existent, but, won't be the first time I have had to move things sans stopping power.

Craig said something about the fuel pump. That can be worked around via gravity feed for a short hop.

BLK HMMWV, whata ya doing tomorrow? Maybe Wednesday?
 

msgjd

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It will need hydraulic hoses
Will, do you already have a source and brand/pn's to swap that M62 over to "normal" hose and fitts and hook into the existing steel pipe? It looks like you have the A-W boom on it.. As you may know, the Ermeto fitts on the M62 were supposedly a 1-time special-order size exclusive to the A-W equipped M62's .. I have a number of machines in the construction world with Ermeto fitts but their sizes are common and obtainable.. I have not had any luck obtaining the M62's A-W size.

Anyway, if you need the brand/pn's of the "Ermeto-to-normal" adapters, I will dig out last years' purchase order receipts to get the nums .. I had to do the hoist motor hoses last year, about $430 for the pair incl labor and the adapters..

On fleabay last year I picked up a NOS roll of gates hose at 50% off that fits a 50-yo excavator here which has re-useable "field-serviceable" hoise fittings everywhere on it, and some Ermeto's like the M62 .. When the next hoses blow on the M62 , I just might buy some adapters and a roll of hose for it for myself , plus some parker field-serviceable fittings (yes they are available and great price considering they can be re-used over and over again).. It's nice to eliminate the costs of hyd hose shops with their pricey throw-away crimp fittings ... The only bad thing about the field-serviceables is you need a really good vice, lots of spray silicone, a beefy pair of arms or a lot of leverage with your wrenches (y) Of course the smaller the hose, the easier it goes
 
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msgjd

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I drove some of the last 5 ton gassers, in 32nd AADCOM in 1973, to the bone yard.
When i eventually landed in a NG tank BN, I had previously not driven nor seen any gas 6x6's during my active duty time, everything was diesel or multifuel.. But this armor BN was still fielding a pair of M62 gassers and relied on them 200 percent, purposely avoiding multifuel versions.. They kept them tip-top shape and right up into the late-1980's until the budget (or whoever) allowed them obtain a couple M816's which lasted into the 2010's .. They avoided getting M936's for whatever reason . I do not recall exactly when they lost the M816's, but I think BN Maint's actions say a lot about what they trusted and what they didn't
 
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msgjd

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I know that in a running, on non running deuce, it is tight and usually is a two or three point turn. I have zero idea on how easy this is to maneuver without the engine running, I think it is power assisted steering when the engine runs. My question is, should I make it run where it is at for steering, or does one of these, when not running, steer easily enough to make the turns? I'm thinkin' that pulling on the wheel won't do my neck any good.
Will, if engine not running the wheel will turn stiff but it is do-able even for us old guys as long as the truck is moving .. Yes it won't be good on the neck and shoulders and it is better leverage and likely be easier if you open the door and stand on the running board and pull on the wheel instead of twisting it... Also, I think you will find the turning radius posted in the M39-series 9-2320-211-10 .. They turn tighter than a M54 but not by much, and they sure turn noticeably tighter than a M813.. But plan ahead accordingly .

Yes, as you surmised, the original steering system is power-assist, not true PS... . But a few of those gassers (and some converted to A2) received a new front axle and the same true PS system found on the M809-series .. I think you know how to spot the difference underneath the left fender.. ;) .. My M62 fortunately received the newer steering in the 1980's, however my M51 M52, and one of the M51A2's did not get the update :( .. BUT, power-assist still beats trying to back up a winch-equipped M35A2 with M105 trailer through cone-lined reverse curves during a truck rodeo !! :ROFLMAO:

The engine: As you are perhaps the leading 855 cummins expert on here, there are R6602 guru's on here.. I have been running and servicing R6602's more than 40 years and there continues to be 2 of those beasts still in my yard
 
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WillWagner

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Will, do you already have a source and brand/pn's to swap that M62 over to "normal" hose and fitts and hook into the existing steel pipe? As you may know, the Ermeto fitts on the M62 were supposedly a 1-time special-order size exclusive to the A-W equjpped M62's .. I have a number of machines in the construction world with Ermeto fitts but their sizes are common and obtainable.. I have not had any luck obtaining the M62's A-W size.

Anyway, if you need the brand/pn's of the "Ermeto-to-normal" adapters, I will dig out last years' purchase order receipts to get the nums .. I had to do the hoist motor hoses last year, about $430 for the pair incl labor and the adapters
Didn't know about the fittings. I think we'll get it running in place, move to the shop and go from there. We talk about hyd hoses, would HATE to have one fail in process of a lift. I will keep you in mind, we do have a competent hose/fitting place out this way that served me well in my life at Cummins, Pirtex. However, I do know times have changed and the knowledge they once had might be gone.

Lets start by getting things running and driving to the shop area. I'll keep things updated here, pictures of course!
 

WillWagner

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Here are som pics of the beast. I forget how tall they are! M62. The R6602 was rebuilt in 77 at TEAD, the truck looks to be corrosion proofed in 1984. Looks like it has a "normal" power steering set up.

I see the fittings. Yeah, different than normal.

Went over things, oil, coolant, checked things over. The only concerning thing is that the throttle arm on the carb won't move, but, I do not know if the governor system installed takes manifold vacuum to let the throttle work. We shall see tomorrow.

I have 2 hot AGM batteries ready to go....we only have 1 lead acid right now. I will have some help tomorrow, we can hook a fuel supply from a Jerry can on the side board directly to the F/P, and no, ASFAIK, well as best Craig can remember, the pump should be GTG.

Only had to do a small amount of wasp eradication, so that is a plus.

Brakes, as per the norm, are junk. Pedal is stuck. PB works!

m62.jpgm62 1.jpgM62 2.jpgm62 3.jpg
 

msgjd

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The only concerning thing is that the throttle arm on the carb won't move, but, I do not know if the governor system installed takes manifold vacuum to let the throttle work.
the carb butterflies are fully open by default on Holley-equipped R6602's .. That is something I never liked since my 1st day in an R6602 6x6, it is what causes them to cough, bang, and backfire badly when cranking them cold, especially in cold weather.. I see you have the holley.. A better-starting, slightly better on fuel replacement is a Zenith that superceded the holley, it should show in later Dash-20P's .. On your holley truck you should be able to manipulate the throttle linkage between the pedal and the governor, but I believe the butterflies cannot be manipulated until vacuum is applied as you suspect
 
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WillWagner

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the carb butterflies are fully open by default on Holley-equipped R6602's .. I see you have the holley.. A better-starting, slightly better on fuel replacement is a Zenith that superceded the holley, it should show up in later Dash-20's .. On your holley truck you should be able to manipulate the throttle linkage between the pedal and the governor, but I believe the butterflies cannot be manipulated until vacuum is applied as you suspect
You are correct about the carb. The linkage was frozen and things weren't right in things attached to the linkage. The accelerator pump was also stuck. I was able to lube things up and get the linkage working but the operation was a bit wanky, it would stick when depressing the pedal sometimes, stick 1/2 way when released, sometimes and just wasn't right. I found that the plate on the part of the linkage going up the firewall directly off of the pedal that has the return spring and hand throttle cable attached to it was flopping around loose on the rod and was acting as a stop. It had been that way forever from the looks of it, so I just ran the jamb nut that holds the plate against the end joint back into the position it should have been in....tight against the plate and end joint...and everything fixed itself. I had to PB the accelerator pump shaft and work it a bit and that freed up nicely. The pedal, linkage and throttle lever all worked smooth.

First, a big shout out to @BLK HMMWV, he was a great help....even stayed off his phone! It would have been much more difficult to get what was done without him.

Did a fluid check, everything looked good.

We threw some nice hot AGM batteries in it and powered things up. No Genie smoke, guess that was a good thing! I was totally expecting to have issues with the starter and/or the linkage but NOPE! Stepped on the plunger, the thing cranked like it was new! Hooked up a pony tank, removed the fuel inlet at the carb and gave it a crank....or four, no fuel delivery. Put the can on the fender, gave the feed hose a suck....new gas don't taste as bad as the gas did when I was younger.... Let gravity take over and re checked supply to the carb, good supply now! BUT! Gave things a crank with the choke on, took a bit then a big POP, it lit off and idled, on 3 or 4 cylinders, smoking black like a diesel. The choke didn't return all the way.

Fixed that issue, fired again and gave it a bit of RPM to try and clean things out.....90 psi oil pressure at this point....here comes the above BUT! Giant fuel leak out the bottom, right out of the FP vent. Shut it down, looked things over, no other leaks, one fan belt started to come apart, didn't look to see if it started to build air, didn't try to move it, DID try the steering and it is nice and easy when the engine is running.

Ended up removing the fuel supply, firing and running it until it was out of fuel, pulled the batteries, got belt numbers, pulled the FP to get numbers. Also found the reason for the big POP just before it fired. I forgot, we went around to every vehicle in the collection and put trailer aluminum tape over the exhaust pipe outlet. Blew that stuff of like a bomb!

Found belt cross overs in the 5T parts section

Then and Now doesn't answer their phones except for Mondays and Thursdays, called them with the numbers today, they have a kit for the FP and it is on it's way.

As for the carburetor, I did find out that the Holley is, well a Holley, I hate them, and there is indeed an "upgrade" Zenith, 63AW16. I searched here and found the zenith number, also found a used one on E-bay. Also found out that Evil Dr. Porkchop might have some parts, PMd him, turns out the carb on E-bay is his. He also did some peeking around and says there might be a couple more in the inventory.

The Museum has been using a place in NY for Zenith carb parts and kits. I did call them last night with the Zenith carb number, but have not heard back. They might have a Holley kit, but, since the wrecker is going to be a worker bee, I think the Zenith is a good choice. Rumor has it that there is a rebuilt crab laying around, so that means gaskets only to renew it. I know Treadwell can make the gaskets we need, just need to wait for word back on the Zenith carburetor.

@msgjd, Yeah, I think I will take you up on the Ermeto to normal/SAE fittings list. I see a minimum of 6 of the lines on the crane upper, they look to be #20 or so and 4 or 6 under the rotator area that look like 12 or 16. One end looks to be just NPT but the other is funky, where it joins a hard line. Looks like almost a compression fitting.

Sorry, no pictures or videos. I will say that this thing pushes some air out the exhaust pipe!

I am sure there is going to be more on this to follow. I know it will need brakes....the pedal is stuck and I am sure the MC and wheel cylinders are in need of attention. The PB does work though!

The last time this ran was 1993. It was used in an episode of Combat Garage. It was used to remove the GAA engine from the E8 Sherman to R&I the clutch.....30 years!
 
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msgjd

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Sorry, no pictures or videos. I will say that this thing pushes some air out the exhaust pipe!
... .and will push Fire !! ,, especially when backfiring, or working hard, or "burping" easily down a long downgrade.... We didn't call them "brushburners" for nothing .. Be careful with the fuel tank on the exhaust side, usually they have the vent-type fuel caps although the only issues I ever witnessed with them, besides roadside brush fires,, was M52's setting the undersides of S&P trailers (M127A1C's) ablaze on long slow mountain downgrades. .. fun fun fun when hauling willie pete or other 105 rounds
 
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msgjd

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@msgjd, Yeah, I think I will take you up on the Ermeto to normal/SAE fittings list. I see a minimum of 6 of the lines on the crane upper, they look to be #20 or so and 4 or 6 under the rotator area that look like 12 or 16. One end looks to be just NPT but the other is funky, where it joins a hard line. Looks like almost a compression fitting.
It is a compression-type fitting, and it is an Ermeto ... It was a brand name once upon a time, and I believe Parker obtained the tooling and dies to make them, except, I was told the size used on M62's was a one-shot-military-spec and NLA since the 1950s.... A certain metric size comes close but the OEM fitting is not metric and the metric one is not close enough to be safe.. Your existing ermeto nut on the steel pipe will thread to the adapter, and the other end of the adapter is male JIC, or maybe female JIC, or maybe SAE, I don't recall ... But either way they will work just fine for your new hose... Will have to look at them, and for the invoices tomorrow
 
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msgjd

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As for the carburetor, I did find out that the Holley is, well a Holley, I hate them, and there is indeed an "upgrade" Zenith, 63AW16. I searched here and found the zenith number, also found a used one on E-bay. Also found out that Evil Dr. Porkchop might have some parts, PMd him, turns out the carb on E-bay is his. He also did some peeking around and says there might be a couple more in the inventory.
The holley is a model 885-JJ and they run very rich ... Evil Dr. Porkchop took over the operations and location of an older friend of mine (and his) ... I bought the Zenith upgrade carb from the joint friend about 15 years ago and at the time he had more than a few NOS ones there .. They run leaner and cleaner than the holley.. I would not be surprised if there are a couple left from that batch, and for your sake I hope so (y) BTW, the only hollies I like are the 1950s 1-bbl's that are OEM on my old IHC commercial rigs .. Never had a problem with them, they are bombproof as long as you don't overtighten the screws that hold the see-thru glass bowl
 
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msgjd

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Welcome to the Cornbinder Club .. I can't make out your S/N nor year , mine is a '53 ,, and it looks like yours has the newer (M809-style) power steering .. I don't see the "A-Frame" sticking up above the fender nor below the fender .. I bet there's a hydraulic cylinder hooked to a pitman on the right hand wheel.. You got lucky to have the upgraded steering. The original power-assist steering on these old girls was not "nice & easy" but certainly better than cranking on a deuce while creeping along in frozen ruts
 

WillWagner

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Welcome to the Cornbinder Club .. I can't make out your S/N nor year , mine is a '53 ,, and it looks like yours has the newer (M809-style) power steering .. I don't see the "A-Frame" sticking up above the fender nor below the fender .. I bet there's a hydraulic cylinder hooked to a pitman on the right hand wheel.. You got lucky to have the upgraded steering. The original power-assist steering on these old girls was not "nice & easy" but certainly better than cranking on a deuce while creeping along in frozen ruts
I think it is a '57. The engine was a depot ovh in "77 and there are tags for "corrosion proofing" from "84. The paint is peeling but under the peel is a nice SG Olive drab! There are also spots of red under some parts of the peeling paint on the wrecker bed.

I'll post more pics of it a bit later. Got word on a Zenith, just need to pass things on to Craig and see if Treadwell Carburetors has or can make a kit for it. I'll call tomorrow.

Getting excited! Love to see, smell, hear and feel old iron running!
 

msgjd

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There are also spots of red under some parts of the peeling paint on the wrecker bed.
"Red Lead" Primer? Four of the IHC gassers that passed through my hands sported the flat red underneath the peeling OD, and some 1950's NOS parts I bought over the years came with only a couple coats of red lead... Whenever I see the red it reminds me of the movie Operation Petticoat with the pink submarine .. ( supply was out of paint but they had a short amount of red lead primer and gray primer, thus they mixed it to get enough to cover the sub, if I recall correctly) :ROFLMAO: Been more than 40 years since I last watched it
 
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WillWagner

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Yup. Made some progress yesterday. The fuel filter can is brass! Got that all cleaned out with the help of Evaporust as well as the filter and had to disassemble the draincock on the filter because it was stuck. The gasket for the can is paper, not a rubber seal like on a multi, it looks good so we are gonna cross our fingers that it seals.

filter.jpgfilter 1.jpgfilter2.jpgfilter3.jpg
 

WillWagner

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I ordered a FP rebuild kit from Then And Now in Mas. Did that on Friday afternoon, 1400 here, that would be 1700 there. The owner answered the phone and took the order. It was here on Monday! I have to say, every time we use them, they blow me away with their service.

I had pulled the FP last week, so it was time to get to work. Everything looked OK except for the rubber parts. Anyone ever taken the bowls and metering plates off of a Holley? You know how much of a PITA the gaskets are to remove? The gaskets for the pumping valves were that way. I had to soak the body in Blaster parts cleaner for an hour to loosen them up, use a pick to start getting them off, a stainless bore brush and finally an exacto to get the material off of the metal. After that, everything was gravy. The only thing I didn't do was the priming lever. No seals in the kit, but there was a shaft. I just pressed the staking on the lever side a bit more and it tightened up. It looks like it was leaking oil before, hopefully this stops it.

fp.jpgfp1.jpgfp3.jpgfp4.jpgfp5.jpgfp6.jpgfp7.jpgfp8.jpg
 
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