Alternate Alternator Selection

[aw113sgte]

I'd like to hear about the N1313 alternator. Dual volt 300 amp. While no images of brackets, I did find it listed in the HIMARS TM

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Yep that's the HIMARS alt. Very low production volume and very expensive. All the one's I've seen had serial numbers under 1000. They require specially reinforced brackets as they are 98 lbs.

These guys claim to have one - "Call for price" usually means you don't want to know

C.E Niehoff Dual Voltage 14V and 28V Alternator / Generator for MRAP Buffalo Model MK1

C.E Niehoff Dual Voltage 14V and 28V Alternator / Generator for MRAP Buffalo Model MK1 NSN 2920015375704, 5945015729735 PN N13136, 3003779

www.easternsurplus.net

Note the serial number "00872". They claim from a Buffalo mine clearing MRAP. Those are even more rare than the HIMARS.

 

[hike]

I'd like to hear about the N1313 alternator. Dual volt 300 amp. While no images of brackets, I did find it listed in the HIMARS TM
View attachment 914932

View attachment 914933
View attachment 914934

Two questions:

1— #45 looks like a bracket?
2— Wouldn't it be simpler and less expensive to go to a 24v alternator and a 24v/12v converter?

 

[aw113sgte]

Two questions:

1— #45 looks like a bracket?
2— Wouldn't it be simpler and less expensive to go to a 24v alternator and a 24v/12v converter?

That's for the 100 amp option, as GeneralDisorder mentioned, looks like there is another one. Look at the 1616 diagram, alternator case is different.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Two questions:

1— #45 looks like a bracket?
2— Wouldn't it be simpler and less expensive to go to a 24v alternator and a 24v/12v converter?

1 - That is a bracket. It's not the only revision of the HIMARS bracket. They had problems with them cracking and they have been redesigned..... 98 lbs of alternator will do that. *edit* - that first image is the 100A alternator. Not the HIMARS bracket. The HIMARS bracket is absurdly rare - alternators are seen as having value - even if damaged - lots of copper, etc. Bracketry gets tossed in the scrap or stays with the truck. The HIMARS brackets are unicorns outside of the Army.

2 - Cheaper for sure. Not simpler depending on your truck and what parts you have access to. And a 24/12 converter is another failure point.

I personally like the Niehoff alternators. So does the military obviously. They are generally quite reliable. The bad rep of the 100's is due to their undersized application (my CUCV from the 80's has 200A of twin Delco's -100A for each battery - stock ). The larger alts are quite reliable especially if the batteries and connections are maintained and some Pvt Snuffy type doesn't discard the Nord Locks when mounting them. Literally the only 260's I've seen replaced were due to damaged threads.

 

[aw113sgte]

-6 model on govplanet https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Parts-C.E.-Niehoff-N1313-6-Alternator-California/11038467?h=5000,q|Niehoff+&rr=1&hitprm=&pnLink=yes

 

[GeneralDisorder]

-6 model on govplanet https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Parts-C.E.-Niehoff-N1313-6-Alternator-California/11038467?h=5000,q|Niehoff+&rr=1&hitprm=&pnLink=yes

Damaged threaded ground point. Clearly has been on a truck. Might work. Might be a boat anchor. Already has the lifting eye for anchor duties though!

 

[hike]

How do you all know it is the 100a in the diagram? Both diagrams reference 300a. I am trying learn, you all are so far ahead of me–

 

[GeneralDisorder]

How do you all know it is the 100a? Both diagrams reference 300a. I am trying learn, you all are so far ahead of me–

By the appearance of the bracket and take a look at the 14v and 28v output lug locations, the fan guard type (260 is a wire cage) and the format of the VR terminals, V-belt pulley, etc. I know what all the alternators look like since I've handled them all - it's just a learning curve thing.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

The HIMARS bracket part numbers:

2920-01-585-3333, 12423692

Good luck even finding a picture of that guy. I've never seen one for sale and I've not yet even found a diagram showing it.

 

[aw113sgte]

The HIMARS bracket part numbers:

2920-01-585-3333, 12423692

Good luck even finding a picture of that guy. I've never seen one for sale and I've not yet even found a diagram showing it.

So when are you going to unveil your new super secret alternator setup? Curious minds what to know!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

So when are you going to unveil your new super secret alternator setup? Curious minds what to know!

Well you guessed the alternator I'm running. The difficulty is the availability, the horrendous price from Niehoff, and the bracket situation. A few of them have turned up in the surplus world - mostly attached to HIMARS crate engines - but that supply has dried up for the time being along with the M-ATV 370HP engines, and a lot of other stuff since we started giving away every spare HIMARS and MRAP to Europe.

The 260's have had bracket failures according to my sources and the 300 is 28 lbs heavier. So I'm not satisfied that my current solution is going to be suitable long term and as such I'm not going to show what I did or recommend anyone copy me.

That said - unless you have a late model A1R C7 truck - fitment is going to be a real headache. The 300 is 1/4" from the turbo compressor housing, and about an index finger's width from the coil-over shock mount. It's obvious what happened here - Someone asked Niehoff to fill the entire available space with alternator and the 300 was designed specifically for that purpose - probably first with the Buffalo A2 MRAP - but that ran a C13 engine. Force Protection produced about 450 of those trucks. Lockheed's production volume of the HIMARS that shares our C7 and chassis in 2022 was 48 units per year, giving a rough estimate of ~576 units having been produced since 2010 and it's actually less than that since early year production volume was much lower. Considering spare parts acquired to support the fleet, and production volume - it's no wonder that we don't see high serial numbers on these alternators. They are very specialized, very expensive, and only used for trucks with a lot of electronics.

You can buy one from Niehoff - just fill out the EUC and give them $7,450 or so. Plus tax and shipping.

 

[hike]

You can buy one from Niehoff - just fill out the EUC and give them $7,450 or so. Plus tax and shipping.

I am still thinking running a 3126b or C7 cab and chassis, even with a 24v AC unit, a 28v 200a alternator with a 24v/12v 70a converter is the simplest, most economical way to use in-stock, reasonably available parts. That can be accomplished new, out of the box for about $2,000 and run reliably for many years—

 

[Ronmar]

The Neihoff is a well made alt, the problem is if I loose one out on the road somewhere, repair is basically unobtanium. Or it is very expensive if I can find someone to send me one. Something like a delco or leece is way more common, replacements and parts are readily available and a fraction of the cost. So inexpensive I can afford to have a spare. Any auto electric shop can work on it if I don’t feel like it Thats one reason I went with the straight 24v conversion. I expect the 100A Neihoff to last a long time, but I can and will shoehorn a COTS alt when this alt goes.

The 24-12 converter is another point of failure, but its not a show-stopper. You can still draw 12 out of the middle of 24 for short periods to get you where you need to go. If you rotate batteries frequently, you could get away with this for quite a while until you get another converter installed. But again, not unobtanium or horrifically expensive…

my .02…

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I am still thinking running a 3126b or C7 cab and chassis, even with a 24v AC unit, a 28v 200a alternator with a 24v/12v 70a converter is the simplest, most economical way to use in-stock, reasonably available parts. That can be accomplished new, out of the box for about $2,000 and run reliably for many years—

Yeah - it depends on what you want and how you feel about the modifications required to get there. The 24v AC unit will draw near 40A at full tilt...... If you want to run four 6TAGM's in the factory configuration for redundancy and for temperature resilience, and want to run four Victron Orion converters for 68A of habitat charging.... you start to add up the worst case for charging 8 batteries, running the truck, and additional lighting overhead.... and then add in a safety margin knowing you don't want to run it at it's full rated capacity under any circumstances...... you end up where I'm at.

And I didn't pay anywhere close to $7k for my setup. Research, research, research. Legwork. Research.... Eventually implementation. And I have backups. And backups for those backups.

But no - it's not right for everyone and if everyone knew the details then the price would be obscene which is why I'm not shouting about it from the mountain tops. If you want it - go look for it and if you want to not fight everyone else for it I would keep it on the downlow.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

The Neihoff is a well made alt, the problem is if I loose one out on the road somewhere, repair is basically unobtanium. Or it is very expensive if I can find someone to send me one. Something like a delco or leece is way more common, replacements and parts are readily available and a fraction of the cost. So inexpensive I can afford to have a spare. Any auto electric shop can work on it if I don’t feel like it Thats one reason I went with the straight 24v conversion. I expect the 100A Neihoff to last a long time, but I can and will shoehorn a COTS alt when this alt goes.

The 24-12 converter is another point of failure, but its not a show-stopper. You can still draw 12 out of the middle of 24 for short periods to get you where you need to go. If you rotate batteries frequently, you could get away with this for quite a while until you get another converter installed. But again, not unobtanium or horrifically expensive…

my .02…

I don't disagree with any of those points in principle.

I have contingency plans however. If I lose an alt I can drive for quite some distance on the four 6TAGM's. Further I can charge the 6TAGM's from my solar array or my diesel generator.

And I have my original 260A as a spare, plus an additional 300A HIMARS unit and matching VR. I carry the VR and if I was headed for a really long and really far journey I could carry one of the spare complete alternators. But really if the system is maintained a failure is pretty unlikely. Once you get out of the 100A stuff that seems to have a high failure rate the problems are mostly down to lack of maintenance and operator error - slaving off a dead truck and hitting the alternator with a giant load, battery terminal and connection maintenance, not using Nord-Locks and checking fasteners for tightness, etc.

 

[hike]

..., and want to run four Victron Orion converters for 68A of habitat charging.... you start to add up the worst case for charging 8 batteries, running the truck, and additional lighting overhead.... and then add in a safety margin knowing you don't want to run it at it's full rated capacity under any circumstances...... you end up where I'm at.

Habitat has to be separate, like a trailer, a habitat must carry its own 'water'.

Cab and chassis 24v 175 or 200a alternator, a 24v/12v 70a converter to run 12v side and accessories, four? batteries, (and a spare ether can), for winter starting after sitting unused two weeks at Alta, Big Sky, Mt. Hood, or Stowe during 2° nights, 24° days—

 

[aw113sgte]

Habitat has to be separate, like a trailer, a habitat must carry its own 'water'.

Cab and chassis 24v 175 or 200a alternator, a 24v/12v 70a converter to run 12v side and accessories, four? batteries, (and a spare ether can), for winter starting after sitting unused two weeks at Alta, Big Sky, Mt. Hood, or Stowe during 2° nights, 24° days—

Just another data point, my 2 6tl flooded (770ca) didn't have enough juice to start my C7 at about -10F. Supposedly agm are better cca at over 1000 for most brands. I may end up with 4x agm 6tl to deal with WI winter.

 

[hike]

We are all making plans for the path we hope to travel.

Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans. —Alen Saunders

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Habitat has to be separate, like a trailer, a habitat must carry its own 'water'.

Cab and chassis 24v 175 or 200a alternator, a 24v/12v 70a converter to run 12v side and accessories, four? batteries, (and a spare ether can), for winter starting after sitting unused two weeks at Alta, Big Sky, Mt. Hood, or Stowe during 2° nights, 24° days—

Yeah of course the habitat is self-contained. But I can manually switch the solar over to the truck batteries if necessary and the Victron's are there to supplement the solar array. Backups and contingencies. But yes they have separate battery banks.