MEP-002A, will Start, Run then dies....any suggestions?

[1FAST4]

The part looks the same (physical case) however it needs to be the right PSI... many times they "look the same" but are not the right PSI trip point.

This is the correct OP Switch as listed in the -24P parts manual

47 15 PAOZZPAOZZPAHZZ 5930-01-039-3140 SWITCH, PRESSURE EA 1 1 M-1423-14 74400 309-0177 44940

If found the OPS (Hobbs M-4008-15) in this SS Thread. Looks like it is correct???

 

[rickf]

And to be exact about what to jump on the switch, it is not the terminals of the switch, it is the terminals in the plug that goes on the switch. Jump those two wires and if it runs and stays running then buy the switch. The nice thing about these sets is that they have an actual mechanical oil pressure gauge so you can verify you do in fact have oil pressure.

 

[Guyfang]

If found the OPS (Hobbs M-4008-15) in this SS Thread. Looks like it is correct???

It might work. But its not listed in FEDLOG as a replacement for the ORG. switch. In the thread you found, its says Adjustable, and the normal switch is NOT adjustable. But who knows? If the price is right, try it. The guy who started that thread did just that and it worked. Try it. BUT first make sure its whats wrong.

 

[2Pbfeet]

Video; I have one but can't figure out how to upload it to the site...says the file extention (..,mp4) is not supported.
Both pumps are clicking.
Yes on additives. I use Pri-D, Stanadyne, Bio Kleen on all stored (little use) Diesel Fuel.

DieselKleen contains a lubricity additive. Stanadyne has a purple "lubricity formula".

I used to use Optilube summer + as it supposedly works well.

If you leave your diesel stored for long periods of time, I would try to have full tanks, sealed as well as they can be, and I would add a biocide.

Many of the current diesel lubricity additives contain a few percent of soy biodiesel, which does oxidize over time, creating gums that get deposited everywhere.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[1FAST4]

So here's an update:
I checked the OPS itself per the TM, at the terminals with the Gen Set Master switch off, No continuity. So, I then try to start it; the first time, it fired up at very slow RPM's and the same loud knocking/hammering sound as yesterday that I would describe as similar to the sound of the rockers hitting the valve cover in an old car; the RPM's increased to normal then decreased, then died after about a minute with a puff of gray smoke. I tried it again, same low RPM's and knocking sound for about 30 seconds then RPM's increased to what I feel was Normal and Knocking sound went away and it ran normal for the next hour or so, no smoke at shut down...Oil Pressure started at 45 PSI and dropped to 35 PSI about 15 mins in.

Let it sit for 2 hours then re-started. Fired up a little slower than normal but no initial slow RPM's or knocking...it ran for an hour and a half without issue.

To me, when I first tried to start it yesterday and today it seemed like it was starving for fuel. I'm thinking that "Scoobyshep", in his first post, that he had gut feeling of somethings gummed up may be correct.

Any new thoughts?

Also, is there a more aggressive Fuel System Treatment/Additive that could be used to clean the system out? Something other than what I'm using now.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I've had pretty good luck with using a full can of Seafoam in fuel for a "new to me" genset that has sat for a while. Seems to help dissolve & burn any gummy fuel residue in fuel system.

I know that knocking sound you are referring to. Usually that means one cylinder is slow to fire, once it does the engine smooths out. How long are you pre-heating with Glow Plugs/Intake Heaters active? I hold preheat for at least ~30 seconds, more (Full 60 seconds) when it's really cold.

Have you verified that Glow Plugs & Intake Heaters are working?

BTW, I use BioBore (longterm storage) & Optilube XPD (added lubrication factor) and that combo has worked well for me in my gensets.

For reference Here is a study cited in this BITOG Forum that was done a while ago by a highly regarded testing firm "SouthWest Research Insitute" (SWRI). Optilube XPD came in 2nd. This study is a bit dated, however Optilube XPD seems to have stood the test of time.

 

[Scoobyshep]

What I've done in the past when I've had a unknown gummed up blockage somewhere is take fittings apart in certain spots and judge fuel flow based off of how fast the pump is clicking. I usually go for prefilter post filter and at the injection pump. If you look at the fuel line right where the oil pressure gauge is mounted there is a check valve that tends to be a spot for clogging

 

[1FAST4]

I've had pretty good luck with using a full can of Seafoam in fuel for a "new to me" genset that has sat for a while. Seems to help dissolve & burn any gummy fuel residue in fuel system.

I know that knocking sound you are referring to. Usually that means one cylinder is slow to fire, once it does the engine smooths out. How long are you pre-heating with Glow Plugs/Intake Heaters active? I hold preheat for at least ~30 seconds, more (Full 60 seconds) when it's really cold.

Have you verified that Glow Plugs & Intake Heaters are working?

BTW, I use BioBore (longterm storage) & Optilube XPD (added lubrication factor) and that combo has worked well for me in my gensets.

For reference Here is a study cited in this BITOG Forum that was done a while ago by a highly regarded testing firm "SouthWest Research Insitute" (SWRI). Optilube XPD came in 2nd. This study is a bit dated, however Optilube XPD seems to have stood the test of time.

I will give the Seafoam a shot, have a can somewhere in the shop.
Usually hold the Pre Heat for at least 30 seconds.
Haven't checked Glow Plugs or Intake Heaters as of yet but will add that to my troubleshooting.
And, thanks for the BioBore and Optilube info. I always like to know what is working well for others on these Gen Sets.

 

[Guyfang]

Keep in mind, the pre-heaters are ALWAYS on during start, for a reason. So it they do not work, this could be a part of the problem. Check them.

 

[Ray70]

What I've done in the past when I've had a unknown gummed up blockage somewhere is take fittings apart in certain spots and judge fuel flow based off of how fast the pump is clicking. I usually go for prefilter post filter and at the injection pump. If you look at the fuel line right where the oil pressure gauge is mounted there is a check valve that tends to be a spot for clogging

Something else to keep in mind, clicking of the fuel pumps doesn't mean they are working properly. You have 2 pumps in line with each other and each pump has 2 check balls in it, one on the inlet and one on the outlet. If any of those 4 check balls gets stuck open or closed your fuel delivery could be affected. A trained ear can usually tell when the pumps start to sound "different". Best bet is to verify flow as described above. If flow is impeded but no obvious blockages are found, check the pumps themselves.
Also check the line running from the tank to the first pump. A loose fitting or cracked hose can let air into the system, which will cause all kinds of performance issues!

 

[2Pbfeet]

So here's an update:
I checked the OPS itself per the TM, at the terminals with the Gen Set Master switch off, No continuity. So, I then try to start it; the first time, it fired up at very slow RPM's and the same loud knocking/hammering sound as yesterday that I would describe as similar to the sound of the rockers hitting the valve cover in an old car; the RPM's increased to normal then decreased, then died after about a minute with a puff of gray smoke. I tried it again, same low RPM's and knocking sound for about 30 seconds then RPM's increased to what I feel was Normal and Knocking sound went away and it ran normal for the next hour or so, no smoke at shut down...Oil Pressure started at 45 PSI and dropped to 35 PSI about 15 mins in.

Let it sit for 2 hours then re-started. Fired up a little slower than normal but no initial slow RPM's or knocking...it ran for an hour and a half without issue.

To me, when I first tried to start it yesterday and today it seemed like it was starving for fuel. I'm thinking that "Scoobyshep", in his first post, that he had gut feeling of somethings gummed up may be correct.

Any new thoughts?

Also, is there a more aggressive Fuel System Treatment/Additive that could be used to clean the system out? Something other than what I'm using now.

+1 on SeaFoam.

However, I think first things first. The tank is clean, right? No point in dissolving sludge to move the sludge farther into the engine. Folks have had intermittent running issues with debris that gets sucked into the inlet and partially or completely blocking the flow. I would then double check the fuel pumps and check valves.

Then, I would take a new fuel filter, prefill the filter with as much SeaFoam as it can hold, and then add another can of SeaFoam to the tank.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Guyfang]

If you are worried about your pumps, then do some PM. Remove them all three. Take them apart. Its easy. Soak them in some wonder fluid to remove the crud/lacquer, and reassemble. Bench test them. Both electrically, and by pumping fuel into a bowl. Then sand down the points where the Bolts/nuts attach the pumps to the frame. I would 100%, put new serrated washers on all the mounting hardware, on both sides. These pumps need good grounds. Then if you haven't , take the whole fuel system apart and clean/inspect it. Put it all back together, and test. If you have no leaks, this system will last you many, many years.

 

[rickf]

If the pump does not clatter than the piston will be stick in there from gunk and rust. Soak it liberally with WD-40 or similar, both from the open end and in the fitting on the other end. Then smack the open end on a soft 2x4 making sure you do your best to hit flat on the face of the body. Just hit it a couple times and turn it over to see if the piston moved. Take a wood dowel and gently tap the piston down. If it moved then you are going to get it with no real problem but patience is key here. Keep doing the smack and tap thing and it will start moving more and more. Most of the ones I have done have popped out after getting an inch of movement in the piston but I have had some that fought the entire way out. Do not get frustrated and try to force it or rush it, this is when things get broken.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If the pump does not clatter than the piston will be stick in there from gunk and rust. Soak it liberally with WD-40 or similar, both from the open end and in the fitting on the other end. Then smack the open end on a soft 2x4 making sure you do your best to hit flat on the face of the body. Just hit it a couple times and turn it over to see if the piston moved. Take a wood dowel and gently tap the piston down. If it moved then you are going to get it with no real problem but patience is key here. Keep doing the smack and tap thing and it will start moving more and more. Most of the ones I have done have popped out after getting an inch of movement in the piston but I have had some that fought the entire way out. Do not get frustrated and try to force it or rush it, this is when things get broken.

Knocker loose works wonders.

Also compressed air through the outlet can pop it loose

 

[rickf]

Compressed air on the outlet is pushing against the closed valve, or should be closed valve. Both of those ball checks open towards the outlet.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Compressed air on the outlet is pushing against the closed valve, or should be closed valve. Both of those ball checks open towards the outlet.

Yes thats the point. The slug seizes up, when the pump is disassembled (except the slug) compressed air in the output can be used to dislodge the slug if a solvent and tapping doesnt work.

I have only had a pump badly gummed up once to need to blow it apart.

 

[1FAST4]

First off, I want to say Thanks for all the input!!!!!

Here's where I'm at:
This morning I added 1 can of Seafoam to the onboard fuel tank and topped it off with 2 1/2 gallons of fresh Diesel. Started it up and let it run for 20 mins to get up to temp; it started and ran with no issues. I then shut it down and let the Seafoam hot soak. About an hour later I restarted it, and all was going good for about 5 mins then back to the same issue...start, low RPM's, normal RPM's then die with a gray puff of smoke. Below are links to some videos of what it was doing today.

Vid-1
Vid-2
Vid-3
Vid-4
Vid-5
Vid-6

Take a look and let me know what you think.

Just FYI, it may not show in the video(s) but I did Prime, Pre Heat (1min) and Start when the unit was cold.

 

[Scoobyshep]

To me it sounds of starving of fuel

 

[Guyfang]

Troubleshooting. The only way to exclude the Fuel system from the problem equation is to:

Remove all three pumps. Take them apart. Its easy. Soak them in some wonder fluid to remove the crud/lacquer, and reassemble. Bench test them. Both electrically, and by pumping fuel into a bowl. Then sand down the points where the Bolts/nuts attach the pumps to the frame. I would 100%, put new serrated washers on all the mounting hardware, on both sides. These pumps need good grounds. Then if you haven't , take the whole fuel system apart and clean/inspect it. Put it all back together, and test. If you have no leaks, this system will last you many, many years. Do not forget the check valve.

 

[Ray70]

Definitely sounds like fuel starvation to me too, but the smoke has me puzzled.
Typically they don't smoke like that when starved for fuel.
I'm thinking 2 things, fuel starvation or possibly insufficient air flow.
I wonder if you could be getting CO building up in the shed if the air outside is stationary ( no breeze )
Do you have an easy way to open up the enclosure ( roof maybe ) to try it.
Or put a fan blowing air into it?
Lastly, be careful letting it run and die down like that too many times, you can blow the VR transistors doing that.
Might be worth disconnecting the field wires from the VR until you get the engine sorted out.
Check the schematic, I think it's wires 7&8 or 8&9 ?? look for F1 and F2 to the generator.