Curious old M49 fuel truck

[Paweł]

Hello!
I'm a modeller and I would like to build a model of this truck:



I have three questions for people who know "the real thing"

1) any idea what that "potable water" inscription is supposed to mean? Looks to me like a kind of a joke, any ideas?
2) do you have any pictures or TM drawings for the pump drive and transfer case PTO? They are missing from the model kit and I would like to build them on my own.
3) am I correct to identify the truck from the photo as M49A1 (three tanks)?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I'll post photos when I start building. Thanks in advance and have a nice day

Paweł

 

[Guyfang]

View attachment 935921

I have three questions for people who know "the real thing"

1) any idea what that "potable water" inscription is supposed to mean? (Well, that means is drinkable water. It could mean that one tank had drinkable water in it. I will admit, its strange.) Looks to me like a kind of a joke, any ideas?
2) do you have any pictures or TM drawings for the pump drive and transfer case PTO? They are missing from the model kit and I would like to build them on my own.
3) am I correct to identify the truck from the photo as M49A1 (three tanks)? (I see only two tanks. One a 600 gal. and the oteher 400 Gal.)
(No. I think this is an M50A2, water truck. Read the attached sheet.)

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I'll post photos when I start building. Thanks in advance and have a nice day

Paweł

I can give you the TM's for the truck. They are large, and I am not even sure if they all are in our forum. So If you want them, tell me and you can send me a PM with your E-mail.

 

[Paweł]

Hello!
Thanks a lot for your comment!
I already have the -10 TM (Operator's), but I'd love to get one showing the PTO, the pump and the shaft connecting them - probably the -20. I'll send you a PM right away.
Thanks again and have a nice day
Paweł

 

[HDN]

I found a few pages in my TM collection that might help you out. They might be a little too close-up in detail as I can't quite figure out where the components in some of the pictures are located. Please find the PDF attached.

When you're done with your model, please share some pictures

 

[Jbulach]

Sure looks like it has 600GAL, 400GAL, and 200GAL stenciled up on the spine of the tank.

 

[Paweł]

Hello!
Thanks a lot for your comments!

@Jbulach - that's what I've seen, too. Plus on the sides of the main tank there are two small doors of the hose compartments:





That's why I suppose we have an M49A1C in the photo.

@HDN - thanks a lot for the TM pages, very interesting. Could you please also post the next ones, about the fuel truck?

Thanks again for your great help and have a nice day

Paweł

 

[msgjd]

I would like to build a model of this truck:
I have three questions for people who know "the real thing"

1) any idea what that "potable water" inscription is supposed to mean? Looks to me like a kind of a joke, any ideas?
2) do you have any pictures or TM drawings for the pump drive and transfer case PTO? They are missing from the model kit and I would like to build them on my own.
3) am I correct to identify the truck from the photo as M49A1 (three tanks)?

1: Potable Water is just that .. It can be put in a pot for cooking, and is drinkable... Some fuelers were used to haul water after getting cleaned out to some extent .. Not the most healthy thing but it happened.. They probably left the flammable lettering in case it went back to hauling fuel

2: the truck in your picture is a gasser, M49C with 3 compartments (200 front/400 mid/600 rear).. It is not a M49A1 nor A2

3: I own two of the real deal and also spent many hours/months in the army handling both the M49C gasser as well as 2-compartment (600gal x2) M49A2C multifuel

4: I can help you with actual pics although the TM's posted here may or may not help... So far the TM pics posted are not for the older M49C in your picture .. The pumps are entirely different as well as the filter, separator, controls, and piping/guts layout in the back ..

5: So I have to ask, are you looking to model the 3-compartment M49C gasser as in your 11th Cav-Blackhorse picture? Or are you gonna model the "guts" of a M49A1/A2C multifuel.. They are different animals in several ways

 

[Paweł]

@msgjd - thanks a lot for your comment!

That's an interesting explanation about that water inscription...

If I can get enough reference, then I would like to model the truck in the picture as close as I can get. I'll say right on, that I will not model the insides of the engine compartment (the hood will be closed) and I will not model the insides of the pump/valve compartment - it's doors will be closed, too. But I would like to get the underside as close as I can, that's why I was asking about the driveshaft for the pump. It's also interesting for me how the exhaust was routed on the earlier trucks.

So, if you would be so kind as to post some pictures here, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance and have a nice day!

Paweł

 

[Guyfang]

Good deal!

 

[msgjd]

@msgjd - thanks a lot for your comment!

If I can get enough reference, then I would like to model the truck in the picture as close as I can get. I'll say right on, that I will not model the insides of the engine compartment (the hood will be closed) and I will not model the insides of the pump/valve compartment - it's doors will be closed, too. But I would like to get the underside as close as I can, that's why I was asking about the driveshaft for the pump. It's also interesting for me how the exhaust was routed on the earlier trucks.

the driveline and frame rails of all three versions are the same and have the same PTO-shaft routing , except ,, the 3-compartment tank body of course has 3 control valves and 3 pipes underneath, one for each liquid compartment ..

Two body details not to miss is that the early trucks have wheelwells pre-formed in the body's underside (see your picture and compare to TM drawing of an A2 body) , thus the tank height is a bit lower on early trucks compared to the later versions .. Go into a sharp corner at speed with a full M49C and then do same with a full M49A2C .. You definitely WILL have a pucker experience with the A2C

 

[msgjd]

@msgjd - thanks a lot for your comment!
So, if you would be so kind as to post some pictures here, I'd really appreciate it.

these pics i had on-hand .. i can get you better underside pics of the tank etc by next week but here's a start to get you thinking..

In the 1960's to mid-70' Monogram (later Revell?) offered a M34 "eager beaver" 1/35 scale truck .. They were fairly accurate and would make a very good base for you to start with .. IIRC the underside detail was good .. You also could modify its early wheelwell-type cargo bed into a tanker body, as the basic rear body features are pretty much the same between the M34 and M49C by design .. If you put hoops and canvas on a real M49C it deliberately looks like a wheelwell-type M34 cargo truck at a distance, they made it that way for a reason back then.. You would have to custom-build dual-wheels instead of the M34's single wheels

1: PTO unit



2: underneath wheelwell



3: Exhaust tailpipe routing / design



4: Exhaust pipe to manifold



4A: Muffler area





5: typical under fender , gasser (vent louvers are different than multifuel)



6: front area driveline , gasser



7: Rear area driveline . Note 3 fuel pipes going to rear compartment, PTO pump shaft is the 4th "pipe" , on the right



8: Top frame view



9: Left wheelwell + hose holders + extinguisher mount



10: Right wheelwell + extinguisher holder



11: Tank Top (thinking about putting another picture here )



12: "Guts" (early version 3-compartment)

 

[Paweł]

@msgjd - hanls a lot! Those pictures are soo cool! A lot better than everything I could find on the 'net so far plus it's really classic truck, and not the A2C that is almost all you see nowadays.

How about that pioneer tool rack, was that a standard location for it?

I have that Monogram kit (reissued by Revell in Europe), but also the AFV Club kit of the M49A2C. My model will probably be a mix of the parts of those two.

Thanks again, you really started me thinking. Have a nice day!

Paweł

 

[msgjd]

How about that pioneer tool rack, was that a standard location for it?
I have that Monogram kit (reissued by Revell in Europe), but also the AFV Club kit of the M49A2C. My model will probably be a mix of the parts of those two.
Thanks again, you really started me thinking. Have a nice day!
Paweł

you're welcome .. you have two good kits to work with for sure ! .. i got an AFV A2C kit 30 years ago , it's still unopened in its wrapper When i was a teen i built seven of the old monogram M34 kits (the only thing available at the time except for an old obscure M62 kit from the late-50's i never knew existed until about 15 years ago) and modified some of the M34's to depict M35A2 multifuels and a M275A2 tractor.. Goofing around with a candle and the styrene "runner" the parts came on, i discovered how to soften and stretch/shape it to appropriate size to make an endless supply of exhaust stacks, late-style "west-coast mirror brackets (and mirrors), hoops (bows) for open cargo beds, mushroom air intake caps, 105mm rounds , pipe loads, etc

Re: pioneer rack. ...

what you see is the standard location on the old wheelwell-style tanks but most tanks i've seen don't have the rack ..
I don't recall any pioneer racks on A2C's however if some did have one it most-likely would've been at the spare tire location like some other
M44-series deuces ..

Frankly, I don't like the location on the tank side in real life due to it being where i've always climbed up on top.. Some muddy wet day it's
gonna really hurt to slip and fall down onto that thing, and maybe why the later tanks do not have one .. Perhaps if Heil had welded it
lower on the tank side it could've been a decent step to get up on top

 

[msgjd]

@msgjd - I would like to get the underside as close as I can, that's why I was asking about the driveshaft for the pump.
So, if you would be so kind as to post some pictures here, I'd really appreciate it.

here you go .. I went thru a ton of flash bulbs but you can pay me later

Starting at transmission :

1: rear PTO in relation to parking brake drum .. The PTO gearbox yoke is a half-inch right of truck center





2: looking towards cab .. air tanks left, main driveshaft bright object on right, forward compartment valve + valve control wire + angled fuel pipe center

At this point the pto shaft is "hidden" above the air tanks




3: same camera location/direction showing better detail of PTO in relation to air tanks and first crossmember behind cab .. the channel iron (red primer) above PTO yoke is the front crossframe of the tank body




4: same camera location looking up : front (R) 200g and middle (L) 400g compartment valves , control cables, angled pipes .. air tanks are bright object at bottom corner of pic below PTO shaft , and bright object at top corner of pic is main driveshaft




5: same camera location but looking back towards rear of truck and 2nd crossmember behind cab

at this point you see the PTO shaft emerging into view from above the air tanks, the emergency shutoff cable running parallel to right of PTO shaft and it runs close to the upper corner of the middle crossframe "saddle" of the tank body .. Then to the left of the PTO shaft is the rear compartment valve and (straight) pipe , and to its left are the two pipes from the other two compartments and now you can see why the front pipes are angled. .. Next two (dirt-coated) items on the left running parallel to the pipes are the valve control cables from the two forward compartments




6: same camera location but zoomed to show detail of rear compartment valve and mid-tank saddle crossframe

Right to left: emergency shutoff cable, PTO shaft w/carrier bearing, 600g valve w/cable, 400g pipe, 200g pipe , 400g cable, 200g cable




7: closer detail of PTO carrier bearing




8: Finally, under the rear end where truck's frame angle-braces go from frame rails to pintle area: The rear fuel compartment ends here (above the pipes etc) to transition into the equipment compartment whose floor is 1-piece 1/2" plate steel laying directly on truck frame the entire width of tank body serving as its rear crossframe.. For modeling purposes note how the control cables come together

(yes this reminded me i had forgotten to pop the grease cap back on the yoke and grease it after rebuilding the pump )





9: 1-piece flat steel plate above pintle

\\


10: same sheet above passenger-side tailight .. note brace for mudflap shield




11: and this is the last of the good sheet,, same sheet above driver-side tailight .. note braces for mudflap shield, they bolt to the plate

 

[Paweł]

@msgjd - thanks a lot for the photos! They are so cool! Now I'm getting the feeling for what I'm about to model! Those photos also give some cool ideas about weathering the underside.
I think putting the pioneer tool rack on top of the tank will look cool even if it was not so good for the real life operator.
And I think stretching sprue over a flame still is a thing to do if you need fine rod or filament. My use for it is to soften it with lacquer thinner and making weld lines out of it - and I also have other uses for it.
I also wanted to ask you one more question - in some documents it says the original M49 didn't have the trailer hitch, this one clearly has it - any comments on that?

Thanks again for your great help and have a nice day!
Paweł

 

[msgjd]

I also wanted to ask you one more question - in some documents it says the original M49 didn't have the trailer hitch, this one clearly has it - any comments on that? Thanks again for your great help and have a nice day!

1: "My" armor battalion's 1960 M49C as well as the 1971 M49A2C had their pintles removed but the sockets were still there ..
Being the only two tankers for the entire battalion, not just anybody got to operate them and BN maintenance apparently did not encourage "my" Transportation Section to haul trailers with them... Technically, they exceed the off-road maximum load when the tanks are full

2: My 1962 M49C has the pintle you see .. I bought it direct from the gov't GSA when the forest service turned it back in and the OEM pintle was there when i bought it

3: My 1957 M49C has a heavy steel plate welded between the bumperettes to block access to a pintle.. It does not have the pintle but the socket is there

4: Note both my trucks are "charlie" models which indicate they are a bit different than a basic model M49.. As i recall, there is mention in TM's of the M49 but i have never seen a real example.. I know they lack the vehicle dispensing hose carriers on the side of the tank. These trucks were in the first batch starting in 1951.. I suppose it's possible those never got a pintle assy when built .. Note the "49-charlie's" have the vehicle dispensing hose carriers

5: I cannot confirm the following statement as 100% fact but supposedly most "charlie's" (M49C , M49A1C, M49A2C) are converted M35's and they would indeed have at least the socket for the pintle.. My '57 M49C is likely an example of this because it's dash-tagged as a M35 and it left the military without any upgrades around 1970-71.. Its tag unfortunately was not changed to reflect the conversion. However, I don't have any proof that my other M49C from 1962 is a converted M35.. It's dash tag is M49C but the USA Reg number is stamped on the plate in a different font than the rest of the stampings .. The different font is the only clue it may be a convert .. It received a multifuel (A2 upgrade) in the 1990's but it retains the gasser M49C dash tag .. Due to its specific body and cab features, it's very clear it originally had a gas engine

 

[Paweł]

Thanks a lot! Like I suspected, M35s and their variants is a wholly separate branch of knowledge in itself! I hope I'll learn a bit of that on the way. Have a nice day!

Paweł

 

[Valley Rock]

I've had three of those tanks I still have two, none of them were sectioned internally, all of mine are stainless inside then insulation and then aluminum outer skin .

I have an M50A2, I still use it and it is still complete with the PTO transfer case and the driveline and the pump at the rear, but the pump of the rear is not stock it's just one I found it eBay that looked old so I stuck it on there and it all works .

I have a few pictures of other trucks that I've looked at and some that I thought about buying, if I can find them I'll post them up here .

 

[gringeltaube]

The PTO gearbox is only about a couple inches left of center of the truck.

Not sure if you are referring to the centerline of the PTO output shaft? If so, the offset is less than 1/2", actually.

 

[Paweł]

Hello!
Thanks a lot for your comments!
@Valley Rock - of course I'd love to see the pictures you mentioned here!
Have a nice day
Paweł