Florida - CDL - Your 5 Ton - And You

[paulfarber]

How many time do you think LEO/weigh station has been lied to? Thats why your pleas fall on deaf ears... they have 'heard it all'.

Some States (Cali, for example) are MUCH more restrictive than say, PA. A State CAN require you to get a CDL even for private vehicles (this is the same idea that a State can be MORE restrictive that Federal Laws, but not LESS) so you have to do what your State mandates.

For example, in PA I would only need a Class A license (NO CDL) to run an M818 with a trailer loaded. I am not in commerce and its my crap in the back.

I would not stop at scales (ever) simply becuase I have no need to (unless called out by weight/axles) because the goober in the tower is NOT going to know the rules for personal use only trucks.

Best thing I could think of is to get the State Chapter of the MV club to write the Attorney General for guidance spelling out the specifics and keep that with you. At least then you have some sort of credibility to your statements to show... plus it would be on State Stationary with phone numbers to call etc.

 

[Ruppster]

Well, it's been a while since I've been to the SS forums as I've been busy with other stuff lately. But when the email hit my inbox that there was a new post to this thread I had to throw in my 2 cents on the subject. So here goes.

I see this thread is several months old but maybe some of the original posters are still around...

3 questions here...

1: I see a lot of trucks with "NOT FOR HIRE" on them, almost always on the right side of the truck (I assume so the scale guys can see it as you blow by). Does putting this on a duce or 5 ton have any advantage/legal standing?

No, but if you live in a state that doesn't require private use heavy duty trucks to stop at the scales it would help identify to the scale that you are not commercial as you drive by. It could keep them from chasing after you for running the scale and stopping you and giving you a hard time though. But this only really helps if your state does not require personal use trucks to stop. Some states (like VA and FL) require all trucks over 10,000 pounds to stop regardless of use (unless it's registered as an RV) so "Not For Hire" on the doors won't mean anything in such states. But when I lived in Alaska I put "Not For Hire" on the doors as they did not require private use trucks to stop, only true commercial trucks had to hit the scales. It was not a requirement by law that I had to do this but the head of the weigh scales suggested I do it as a way of letting them know I wasn't commercial when I drove by.

2: Outside the debate of if you actually need a CDL or not, assuming you go get one just to be safe side. And assuming that whoever pulls you over for whatever reason believes you need the CDL, are you then also expected to have a log book and follow the hours on/off like the "real" CDL drivers?

No, log book is not required. The need for a log book or med card is covered separately from the DMV requirement (or lack thereof, depending on state) for a CDL. I've been flagged for random log book checks at many scale houses over the years and each time I was released as soon as they found out I was "Not For Hire".

3: Comment first: According to this website ( Prevost – Passenger coaches and bus shells manufacturer ) The big Bus type RV's have a GVWR in the area of 54,500lbs. With a regular "Civilian" "Generic" "Basic" DL you can drive one of these buses with a 30' stacker trailer (These trailers can weigh 20,000lbs++) for a total of 70,000++ pounds. A 16 year old the day he gets his DL can drive this monster combo on any public road without any LEO even thinking twice about it.

Not true in all states as some states require an RV classed license for RV's over a certain size. This is not a federal requirement though as the feds could care less. But there are quite a few states that allow driving of any sized RV with just a regular automobile license. Just like CDL's, this too is a state by state issue.

The questions:

"Question A" I know this will not apply to a MV like the 916 but anything with a box on it "Could" be used as an RV so, why not register it as an RV? Would that work? Any downside to doing it?

Downside? None that I can think of. But you might need to have a visual inspection done by a DMV agent in order to have the truck reclassed from one category to another. I've looked in to doing this in both Alaska and Florida and each state had different rules. The biggest plus to doing this with a 6x6 (whether it's a 2.5 or 5 ton) is in regards to IFTA (International Fuel Tax Agreement). IFTA comes in to play as soon as you drive your 6x6 vehicle out of your state of registration and in to another state. IFTA classifies any tandem axle vehicle as "commercial", even if the truck's GVWR is under 26,000 pounds, unless the vehicle is an RV. I found this out the hard way the first time I drove a private use semi truck out of Virginia. The first weigh scale I hit in NC heading south on I-95 out of VA hit me with $600 in fines for lack of IFTA and IRP (International Registration Plan, also known as apportioned plates). So if you have an M109 and plan on driving it out of your own state converting it to an RV would be one way to get around both IFTA and IRP. But if you don't plan on driving the truck out of your home state then the RV status might not mean much, depending on what state you live in.

"Question B - Part 1" In regards to the MV "Tractors" (Like the 916) If you don't have to take it the DMV for a visual inspection they will never see it so you could probably register it as an RV??

Possible, but if you get stopped by a Commercial Law Enforcement Officer and you don't have the required items for your state for it to be a true RV then you will be in for a world of hurt.

"Question B - Part 2" You can get a Freightliner FL50, 60 or 70 (And possibly larger) easily registered as an RV if you tel them it is going to be used NON-Commercially to haul the 5th wheel camper you are planning to buy. Why can't you do the same thing with your M916 by telling them it is to haul the new 30ft 5th wheel RV trailer you plan to purchase or even register your M816 wrecker by telling them it is for towing the 30ft bumper pull RV trailer you plan to purchase to use on your Alaskan off road camping trip.?

Again, may be possible in your state but the type of fifth wheel might be an issue. Might have to change out the commercial fifth wheel on an M916 over to an RV type to get away with this. But this would only be an issue if you were driving the truck without an RV trailer. But if you are actually pulling an RV trailer with any size of truck the two together are considered an RV combo and RV exemptions apply. I looked in to this in Alaska as they only give an RV exemption from requiring a CDL (they dropped the personal use exemption set forth by the federal guidelines). Under the RV exemption I could drive my old International semi truck (the one in my avatar) anywhere I wanted if I was pulling an RV trailer with just a regular driver's license. But as soon as I dropped the trailer and drove the truck alone I would have to have a Class B CDL (Alaska does not have Class A and B non commercial licenses).

 

[Ruppster]

I would not stop at scales (ever) simply becuase I have no need to (unless called out by weight/axles) because the goober in the tower is NOT going to know the rules for personal use only trucks.

The trick is "unless called out by weight or axles". This is why you need to get a copy of the regulations and keep a copy in the vehicle with you at all times. Plus if the "goober in the tower" is unaware that you are exempt from stopping he will most likley send someone out after you anyhow. So in such a case having the rules with you in the first place could save you from having to go back to said "goober" and his chicken coop. I've always carried a copy of the regulations with me when I've driven cross country and on the few times I had a scale official tell me I was in violation and try to ticket me I pulled out the regs and showed them why they were wrong. Once they saw I had proof to back my claim they let me go.

Best thing I could think of is to get the State Chapter of the MV club to write the Attorney General for guidance spelling out the specifics and keep that with you. At least then you have some sort of credibility to your statements to show... plus it would be on State Stationary with phone numbers to call etc.

Several years ago I got fed up with the MVPA over such issues as they only seemed interested in those members with more run of the mill stuff like WWII Jeeps and Dodges. Those with big 6x6's were just a small part of the hobby to them and to me it seemed like they could care less about them. The only organization that I know of that seems to be doing anything about weigh scale issues for antique trucks the size of an M35 or M54 is the ATHS. From what I understand they have been fighting for years to get a private use exemption from IFTA and IRP for old trucks. As far as I know the MVPA has yet to join them in such a fight.

 

[oldMan99]

Ruppster,

Thanks for responding! Sounds like you have been at this for awhile and have done a fair amount of homework.

I see your just down the road from me, (I’m in Polk County) so we are both in FL. which works out great for me since I can just “Copy your homework” J

I do have a couple questions based on your responses. See below.

No, but if you live in a state that doesn't require private use heavy duty trucks to stop at the scales it would help identify to the scale that you are not commercial as you drive by. It could keep them from chasing after you for running the scale and stopping you and giving you a hard time though. But this only really helps if your state does not require personal use trucks to stop. Some states (like VA and FL) require all trucks over 10,000 pounds to stop regardless of use (unless it's registered as an RV) so "Not For Hire" on the doors won't mean anything in such states. But when I lived in Alaska I put "Not For Hire" on the doors as they did not require private use trucks to stop, only true commercial trucks had to hit the scales. It was not a requirement by law that I had to do this but the head of the weigh scales suggested I do it as a way of letting them know I wasn't commercial when I drove by.

FL requires all 10k+ vehicles to weigh? I hauled more than that in my 1 ton with a trailer hundreds of times. Your telling me I should have been stopping? So that means pretty much any 2.5 or 5 ton MV must weigh unless registered as an RV? So in a MV instead of “Not for hire” maybe “Registered RV” would be better? (Assuming of course it actually is registered as one).

No, log book is not required. The need for a log book or med card is covered separately from the DMV requirement (or lack thereof, depending on state) for a CDL. I've been flagged for random log book checks at many scale houses over the years and each time I was released as soon as they found out I was "Not For Hire".

Good to know!

Not true in all states as some states require an RV classed license for RV's over a certain size. This is not a federal requirement though as the feds could care less. But there are quite a few states that allow driving of any sized RV with just a regular automobile license. Just like CDL's, this too is a state by state issue.

I suppose that makes sense, guess I never ran into that in any of the 4 states I have lived in since getting my DL. (All south of the Mason/Dixon line)

Downside? None that I can think of. But you might need to have a visual inspection done by a DMV agent in order to have the truck reclassed from one category to another. I've looked in to doing this in both Alaska and Florida and each state had different rules. The biggest plus to doing this with a 6x6 (whether it's a 2.5 or 5 ton) is in regards to IFTA (International Fuel Tax Agreement). IFTA comes in to play as soon as you drive your 6x6 vehicle out of your state of registration and in to another state. IFTA classifies any tandem axle vehicle as "commercial", even if the truck's GVWR is under 26,000 pounds, unless the vehicle is an RV. I found this out the hard way the first time I drove a private use semi truck out of Virginia. The first weigh scale I hit in NC heading south on I-95 out of VA hit me with $600 in fines for lack of IFTA and IRP (International Registration Plan, also known as apportioned plates). So if you have an M109 and plan on driving it out of your own state converting it to an RV would be one way to get around both IFTA and IRP. But if you don't plan on driving the truck out of your home state then the RV status might not mean much, depending on what state you live in.

Since you have done the Florida homework, exactly what is involved in making the conversion to RV from MV? Would it be the same deal if going from commercial 18 wheeler to RV hauler?

Again, may be possible in your state but the type of fifth wheel might be an issue. Might have to change out the commercial fifth wheel on an M916 over to an RV type to get away with this.

I know the RV style is smaller but I have not paid enough attention to know, can you use the 18 wheeler size 5th wheel hitch to haul a RV (I mean will it all fit and work, not a legal issue here) I am assuming on a load capacity issue alone that even if it fit you could not use the RV hitch to haul a 18 wheeler trailer?

But this would only be an issue if you were driving the truck without an RV trailer. But if you are actually pulling an RV trailer with any size of truck the two together are considered an RV combo and RV exemptions apply.

I looked in to this in Alaska as they only give an RV exemption from requiring a CDL (they dropped the personal use exemption set forth by the federal guidelines). Under the RV exemption I could drive my old International semi truck (the one in my avatar) anywhere I wanted if I was pulling an RV trailer with just a regular driver's license. But as soon as I dropped the trailer and drove the truck alone I would have to have a Class B CDL (Alaska does not have Class A and B non commercial licenses).

So…. In Florida, if I (No CDL) were to go out and buy a 18 wheeler tractor (And have a CDL holder drive it home for me) and hook it up to my 5th wheel RV (Need to change the hitch to RV style/size for proper fit/function first?) then I can drive the assembly all I want? But if I drop the trailer in the campground and try to drive the tractor to the store, now I have a problem? And just as importantly, I DO NOT have to stop at weigh stations? (“Florida” - Over 10k must weight in any case?)

Assuming that I can drive the assembly in Florida (and I am Florida licensed and the rig is FL registered) then all the other states have to recognize that as well?)

Is the (Florida) process for registering what was formerly a commercial 18 wheeler tractor to RV use any different than the Florida process for registering a MV?

Assuming I wanted to get a Florida CDL to cover me when driving either a MV or 18 wheeler (for personal, non-commercial use) Which CDL do I need? What does it take to get that? Cost? Renewal process?

Lastly, say I get a M916 (or a used commercial 18 wheeler tractor) and a commercial 18 wheeler trailer (probably a reefer) and build what is obviously a RV in the style of a toy hauler (garage in the back) inside the trailer – In Florida – how do we license it to our best advantage? Can we make it an RV? Does the un-hooked restriction apply?

Although not a MV, it might be interesting to purchase a used 18 wheeler and make it a 6x6 and pull a converted reefer trailer. Can you put super single tires/wheels on a “regular” commercial type 18 wheeler?

THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[paulfarber]

While these posts are very well thought out I have to add my opinion that if you had Antique/Historical plates that don't think a lot of the decals/taxes are going to apply.

PA's IFTA pub states:

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-pabv.pdf

The IRP applies to vehicles that operate through (interstate) or within (intrastate) any of the member jurisdictions and that are used for the transportation of persons for hire or are designed, used or maintained for transportation of property. The plan covers motor vehicles with a gross weight or registered gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds, combinations with a gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds and motor vehicles having three or more axles, regardless of weight.

The above was taken from the PennDOT PA Based Commercial Vehicles Fact sheet.

Bold is mine. The first part clearly does not apply. The second one is also debatable as a PRIVATE vehicle is not maintained for the transportation of property. The second sentence contains more qualifiers that do not apply if the first two conditions are not met.

Who maintains an M35 for the transportation of property? Mine is (or will be, when I pick it up. **** EUC) for pleasure.

So I agree that LEO *can* stop you, and *can* site you for the infractions you describe... but its pretty clear that an M35 owned and operated for private/pleasure is not going to be held to that standard.

M35s are not commercial vehicles. Some states (CA in particular) seem to have some pretty wired rules, but unless they are used in commerce they are nothing more than big green trucks with no special rules.

 

[paulfarber]

As for CDL in Florida, why?

Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

CDL Exemptions

The following persons are exempt from the requirements to obtain a commercial driver license:

• Drivers who operate straight trucks (single units) that are exclusively transporting their own tangible personal property which is not for sale.

This seems to be a pretty clear exemption for an M35/M939 etc

Now before people start barking about weights and trailers:

CLASS A: Trucks or truck combinations weighing with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs.
Unless you have an M818 class vehicle and put a 10,001 loaded trailer behind it sounds like you are safe

 

[Ruppster]

Ruppster,

Thanks for responding! Sounds like you have been at this for awhile and have done a fair amount of homework.

After the $600 fine fron NC I learned not to trust even the word of a Commercial LEO. That's when I started doing the research myself. The last cross country trip I did with a semi truck and trailer was from Alaska to Florida when the Air Force PCS'd us to MacDill AFB 12 months ago. Trying to research Canadian requirements was a royal pain. I thought the regs in the U.S. were bad but they took it to a whole new level.

I see your just down the road from me, (I’m in Polk County) so we are both in FL. which works out great for me since I can just “Copy your homework” J

Cool, another Florida member. Welcome to SS. There are quite a few members in the Tampa/St. Pete area along with a few others around Lakeland and Orlando. If you need an extra set of hands working on an MV let me know.

I do have a couple questions based on your responses. See below.

Only a couple?

FL requires all 10k+ vehicles to weigh? I hauled more than that in my 1 ton with a trailer hundreds of times. Your telling me I should have been stopping? So that means pretty much any 2.5 or 5 ton MV must weigh unless registered as an RV? So in a MV instead of “Not for hire” maybe “Registered RV” would be better? (Assuming of course it actually is registered as one).

I just spent the last hour or two trying to find the reg on this but have not had any luck yet. The info I mentioned is what I have been told by two different FL DOT agents. And yes, they told me one ton trucks are supposed to stop but turn a blind eye to them. If you have an M109 that has been converted to an RV then putting "Recreational Vehicle" and "Not For Hire" on the doors wouldn't be a bad idea. I've seen this done with several antique trucks.

Since you have done the Florida homework, exactly what is involved in making the conversion to RV from MV? Would it be the same deal if going from commercial 18 wheeler to RV hauler?

I called the main FL DMV office about reclassing a truck to an RV and they said I would have to talk to the local tax collector's office in my county. IIRC you had to have sleeping facilities along with one of the following two items installed, either a 120 volt electrical system or a seperate heating or air conditioning system. If you had either one of these done by an RV shop all you had to do was show them a bill for the work. If you did it yourself you had to sign a statement that you did such work. No visual inspection was required. But this is what my county tax collector told me. I would recommend you call the tax collector for your county and ask them to make sure.

I know the RV style is smaller but I have not paid enough attention to know, can you use the 18 wheeler size 5th wheel hitch to haul a RV (I mean will it all fit and work, not a legal issue here) I am assuming on a load capacity issue alone that even if it fit you could not use the RV hitch to haul a 18 wheeler trailer?

Won't work directly but from what I understand they sell adapters that will let you tow an RV with a commercial fifth wheel hitch. But I have not looked in to that issue so I don't know for sure. Might be a moot point though as when I went to get a Toterhome insurance policy on my International I was told it could not have a commercial fifth wheel hitch. It had to be a RV style or I could not get insurance unless it was a non-commercial commercial policy.

So…. In Florida, if I (No CDL) were to go out and buy a 18 wheeler tractor (And have a CDL holder drive it home for me) and hook it up to my 5th wheel RV (Need to change the hitch to RV style/size for proper fit/function first?) then I can drive the assembly all I want? But if I drop the trailer in the campground and try to drive the tractor to the store, now I have a problem? And just as importantly, I DO NOT have to stop at weigh stations? (“Florida” - Over 10k must weight in any case?)

Correct, no CDL required when the trailer is attached as the combo is classed as an RV (even if the tractor is not). As far as weigh scales RV's are exempt in Florida.

Assuming that I can drive the assembly in Florida (and I am Florida licensed and the rig is FL registered) then all the other states have to recognize that as well?

Pretty much. While some states may require an RV classed license in their state they have to recognize legal licenses from other states. So if you have a vehicle that is registered as an RV in one state they have to allow it in another.

Is the (Florida) process for registering what was formerly a commercial 18 wheeler tractor to RV use any different than the Florida process for registering a MV?

No difference as you are doing the same thing, changing it from one category to another. So the process is the same.

Assuming I wanted to get a Florida CDL to cover me when driving either a MV or 18 wheeler (for personal, non-commercial use) Which CDL do I need? What does it take to get that? Cost? Renewal process?

This is a gray area. An M35/M109 are under the requirements for a CDL so no, a CDL is not needed for them. But you may need a Class B CDL if you tow a trailer with a M35/M109 as this will put you over the 26,000 pound weight rating mark as a combo vehicle (unless trailer is an RV). I say "may need one" as I have not looked in to this aspect. But a 5 ton 6x6 will need at least a Class B if it is a tractor version. If the 5 ton is a cargo truck and not a tractor then it is exempt from needing a CDL. At least in Florida it is. A first time CDL costs $75 and then $75 for each renewal. Don't know if there is a fee for the road test itself though. To take the road test you need a truck that falls within the requirements for a Class B license (i.e. the truck has to have a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds or more).

Lastly, say I get a M916 (or a used commercial 18 wheeler tractor) and a commercial 18 wheeler trailer (probably a reefer) and build what is obviously a RV in the style of a toy hauler (garage in the back) inside the trailer – In Florida – how do we license it to our best advantage? Can we make it an RV? Does the un-hooked restriction apply?

The truck will most likely have to be registered as a truck but the trailer can be registered as an RV after you finish the conversion. I've looked in to doing this myself as a way to get around IFTA/IRP when driving out of state to antique truck shows. My idea is to take a drop deck trailer and build RV type sleeping quarters in to the front half of the deck. Then the back half of the trailer could be used to haul another truck. With this combo yes, the unhook restriction applies (unless you get a Class B license, but if you do this out of state IFTA/IRP come in to play).

Although not a MV, it might be interesting to purchase a used 18 wheeler and make it a 6x6 and pull a converted reefer trailer. Can you put super single tires/wheels on a “regular” commercial type 18 wheeler?

If you use a military 6x6 or a commercial 18 wheel converted to 6x6 you will have to keep an eye on your fifth wheel height. It might be too high for use with a civilian trailer (i.e. once you add the height of a civilian trailer to the height of the fifth wheel on a 6x6 you could be over 14 feet high overall). You might have to look for an older 12 foot, 6 inch high trailer (current trailers are 13 foot, 6 inch) or better yet use a military trailer in the first place as they are meant for use with the taller fifth wheel height of a 6x6 tractor.

As far as using super singles yes you can. They even sell super singles for 18 wheelers. The military 5 tons and 10 tons even use the same lug nut pattern used by commercial trucks. The trick is you have to watch out as there are two types of rims, hub centered and lug centered.

On another note you might want to read the following web page as it has some info about overall vehicle lengths in Florida when it comes to RV trailer combos.

Florida DOT- A heads up! - Honda-Tech



Hope this helps. If I missed anything please let me know. I can be reached by email via my profile it you want to contact me that way.


Ruppster

 

[Ruppster]

While these posts are very well thought out I have to add my opinion that if you had Antique/Historical plates that don't think a lot of the decals/taxes are going to apply.

PA's IFTA pub states:

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-pabv.pdf

The IRP applies to vehicles that operate through (interstate) or within (intrastate) any of the member jurisdictions and that are used for the transportation of persons for hire or are designed, used or maintained for transportation of property. The plan covers motor vehicles with a gross weight or registered gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds, combinations with a gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds and motor vehicles having three or more axles, regardless of weight.

The above was taken from the PennDOT PA Based Commercial Vehicles Fact sheet.

Bold is mine. The first part clearly does not apply. The second one is also debatable as a PRIVATE vehicle is not maintained for the transportation of property. The second sentence contains more qualifiers that do not apply if the first two conditions are not met.

Who maintains an M35 for the transportation of property? Mine is (or will be, when I pick it up. **** EUC) for pleasure.

I agree with you 100%. Common sense tells you if it's not used in commerce then this should not be an issue The problem is is there is a difference in the wording of each state's IFTA requirements. Some states do exempt private use but not many. I tried to get the regs from the main IFTA organization's web page (IFTA, Inc.) but it is now a powerpoint presentation from the looks of it so I can't quote it here. The last time I read it it said any vehicle rated over 26,000 pounds, or a tandem vehicle regardless of weight rating, fell under IFTA unless it was an RV or had restricted plates. I asked them about the restricted plates exemption (since antique/historic tags are restricted) but was told that this was for farm tagged vehicles. I have had a few states I drove through tell me that I did not need a fuel permit to drive through their state since I was not for hire but that was only a few. Wisconsin has a little different wording then PA on their state IFTA web site.

International fuel tax agreement (IFTA)

"a motor vehicle used, designed, or maintained for transportation of persons or property"

Here they left out the "for hire" that PA used. Plus IFTA only kicks in if you are driving a tandem axle vehicle out of state. You would need to look in to IFTA requirements of the states around PA if you went on a road trip, not what PA says as they are your home turf. IFTA won't apply to you when you are drivng an M35 in PA.

So I agree that LEO *can* stop you, and *can* site you for the infractions you describe... but its pretty clear that an M35 owned and operated for private/pleasure is not going to be held to that standard.

M35s are not commercial vehicles. Some states (CA in particular) seem to have some pretty wired rules, but unless they are used in commerce they are nothing more than big green trucks with no special rules.

Again, I agree with you. But tell that to IFTA as they are the ones saying if it has tandem axles and you drive out of state then you either have to have an IFTA sticker or a fuel trip permit. After shelling out $600 to NC I would rather spend $25 to $50 for a permit then risk paying another hefty fine at a weigh scale only to try and fight it later. ATHS has been fighting with IFTA for a while now trying to get an overall exemption for antique trucks. That tells me any tandem axle vehicles, even an M35 whether it has antique/historic plates or not (they mean nothing to the people at the main IFTA office), falls under IFTA unless a state grants and exemption on a local level. Till an exemption for personal use is given I would rather buy the permits to cover my backside instead of having to worry every time I drove by a weigh scale or saw a commercial LEO drive by when I'm in another state. The permits aren't that much and are a lot cheaper then paying a fine at a weigh scale. But that's just my 2 cents.


Ruppster

 

[Ruppster]

As for CDL in Florida, why?

Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

CDL Exemptions

The following persons are exempt from the requirements to obtain a commercial driver license:​

• Drivers who operate straight trucks (single units) that are exclusively transporting their own tangible personal property which is not for sale.

This seems to be a pretty clear exemption for an M35/M939 etc

Why? Well, first off I was talking about IFTA/CDL issues in general. Not just from a Florida point of view. Second, a large part of the questions were about tractor trailer trucks, not just cargo versions. For tractor trailer trucks a CDL is required, trailer or no trailer. Plus an M35 is under CDL limits so there never was any question about needing a CDL for it anyhow, at least not in most states. But an M939 series truck would only be exempt as long as it had a cargo bed. A 5 ton tractor or wrecker version would not qualify for the exemption as they are not "straight trucks" by the Florida regulation that you quoted. The problem is is what Florida defines as a straight truck. That is listed in Chapter 316.003 of FL Statute Title XXIII (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.003.html)


(70) STRAIGHT TRUCK.—Any truck on which the cargo unit and the motive power unit are located on the same frame so as to form a single, rigid unit.



So when talking about a tractor trailer truck then yes, a Class B CDL (at least) is required in Florida if it is rated at over 26,000 pounds (which a 5 ton 6x6 is) as it is not a straight truck by Florida regs. The 10,001 pound or higher trailer only means you would need to step up to a Class A CDL.



Here's a link to the chapter about license exemptions in the statute itself.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0300-0399/0322/Sections/0322.53.html

Now before people start barking about weights and trailers:

CLASS A: Trucks or truck combinations weighing with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided towed vehicle is more than 10,000 lbs.
Unless you have an M818 class vehicle and put a 10,001 loaded trailer behind it sounds like you are safe

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one. As mentioned above since an M818 is a tractor and not a cargo truck a Class B CDL would be required in FL. But if you pulled the fifth wheel off and put on a flat bed or cargo bed then yes, you would be safe to drive it with a regular license in FL. Florida is messed up in my opinion. To say you can drive any size/weight straight truck without a CDL but then say you have to have a Class B CDL to drive an antique semi tractor truck without a load because it has a fifth wheel and not a cargo bed is just anal to me. But I guess I shouldn't complain too much about Florida as I had to get a CDL in Alaska in order to drive any truck rated over 26,000 pounds, even an antique tagged 5 ton truck that couldn't be used for commercial purposes anyhow, since Alaska only gives a CDL exemption for RV registered vehicles and not for private use trucks like the feds do. The funny part was when I tried to schedule my CDL driver's test with the company contracted by the state of Alaska to do the test they told me I was wrong and did not need a CDL for private use. I had to wait for them to call the state DMV office about it before I could get the test. Even they thought it was stupid that I needed to get the CDL for an antique truck. Oh well. Got a Class A CDL now and it did make things easier on my last trip from Alaska to Florida. Several years ago I went cross country in a tractor trailer combo without a Class A license (had a VA license at the time and they followed federal standards, i.e. no CDL needed if you weren't for hire) and had several weigh scales give me a hard time about not having a Class A license. So it was nice not having to argue the same thing all over again this last trip. I just hate having to shell out 100 bucks ever time I renew my license.


Ruppster

 

[paulfarber]

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one.

We are not disagreeing.If an M818 is used, it IS a tractor by design and would need the CDL. But a 5ton with a cargo bed (no fifth wheel) you are clearly in the:

Drivers who operate straight trucks (single units) that are exclusively transporting their own tangible personal property which is not for sale.

Statute.

I also must disagree with IFTA on privately owned vehicles. All states follow the same rules. IFTA sets them, the States administer the collection and payment of fuel taxes to the States that the truck operates in. If you fill up in OH, and pay Fuel Tax in OH, but drive 500 miles in PA, PA wants that fuel tax for ITS roads. That's the whole purpose of IFTA, to get the tax money to the States who's roads the COMMERCIAL driver operated on.

Sure, you can be pulled over, and sure the nice LEO can write you a citation, but if I am in my M35 there is no way I am legally responsible for IFTA reporting because I am not in commerce and (lucky for me) PA clearly exempts them. Other states may or may not, but FL cannot fine me for obeying PA laws that differ slightly from FL laws.

From Florida DHSMV FAQs on Trucking/Commercial Motor Carriers

The International Registration Plan (IRP) is a reciprocal agreement that authorizes the proportional registration among the jurisdictions (states) of commercial motor vehicles.

What vehicles are exempt from IRP registration?

• Government Owned Vehicles
• Buses Used for Chartered Parties
• Recreational Vehicles (a vehicle used for personal pleasure or travel)
• Vehicles Operating Intrastate Miles Only

What is the International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) and what are the requirements?
The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is an agreement among states to report fuel taxes by interstate motor carriers.

Please read the web site for the full version.

As I said, if you are not engaged in COMMERCE all this stuff goes huh-bye.

As I said, if the LEO doesn't believe you, he can write you citation all day long... doesn't mean your guilty. How many drivers do you think lie to them to get out of fines? How many hotshots are running 1 tons with 3 car haulers that try to say 'these are my personal vehicles, officer'.

No disrespect, but again, COMMERCIAL and COMMERCE are the key phrases.

 

[paulfarber]

You should also read the IFTA application:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/bmcs/85008.pdf

Lots of Motor Carrier info, business name, EIN etc etc .

Not what you need for a POV

 

[Ruppster]

Please read the web site for the full version.

I read that one a long time ago (even have a couple of the Florida Trucking Manuals on my desktop) and I agree it looks to be plain as day that IFTA is all about vehicles used in commerce. Yet all the legal experts working with ATHS and both the main IFTA organization along with many states say otherwise. I have argued with IFTA reps all across the U.S. over the years about the "Recreational Vehicles (a vehicle used for personal pleasure or travel)" clause and every time their answer was it had to be registered as an RV. Their stance is that the "vehicle used for personal pleasure or travel" comment was to mean an RV being used for personal travel and and an RV being used by a business.

Sure, you can be pulled over, and sure the nice LEO can write you a citation, but if I am in my M35 there is no way I am legally responsible for IFTA reporting because I am not in commerce and (lucky for me) PA clearly exempts them. Other states may or may not, but FL cannot fine me for obeying PA laws that differ slightly from FL laws.

I agree, not in commerce means not an issue. And if it was just a simple citation issue that would be one thing. But if they are still doing it the same way they were when NC hit me for $600 at a scale on I-95 they won't let the truck go till the fine is paid (and they don't take cash). You have to pay on the spot and then you have 30 days to fight the ticket. When I got fined by NC I tried to fight the ticket only to find out that private use meant nothing when it came to IFTA as they classed anything over 26,000 pounds as commercial regardless of use, unless it was an actual RV. Anyhow, as I said I agree with you that IFTA does not apply but getting the head morons with IFTA to accept that is a whole other issue. And since the scales make you pay up front when they fine you to me it's just easier to go ahead and buy the trip permits as a CYA measure. As I said before I would rather spend a few bucks up front on a permit or two versus having to worry about fighting a much larger fine later at a weigh scale. Does that mean I think the permits are required? No, just a cheaper alternative to a ticket. I've been there, done that already. I'm in no hurry to do it again.

As I said, if you are not engaged in COMMERCE all this stuff goes huh-bye.

As I said, if the LEO doesn't believe you, he can write you citation all day long... doesn't mean your guilty. How many drivers do you think lie to them to get out of fines? How many hotshots are running 1 tons with 3 car haulers that try to say 'these are my personal vehicles, officer'.

No disrespect, but again, COMMERCIAL and COMMERCE are the key phrases.

The sad part is I think it's due to things like "hotshots" that they have taken the stance that all trucks must have IFTA or permits. It makes it so the lying won't do any good if you have to deal with IFTA regardless of use.

But as I've said several times I agree with you and have argued just about every point you've made with IFTA and IRP people over the last 10 years. While I won a few challenges over the years most of them did not care and many states treat all big trucks as commercial, even if used privately. When I talked to them they could not understand why anyone would want to own a "commercial truck" as a playtoy. Even ATHS has a legal team on this issue and they say IFTA applies. If they can't find an exemption from IFTA for antique tagged trucks used for personal use that should tell you something right there. They are working on one so with any luck some day there will be a change in this "all trucks over 26,000 pounds or has tandem axles are commercial no matter what and fall under IFTA" stance that the main IFTA office has.

As I mentioned before not all states are the same when it comes to IFTA though. So just because they are a part of the agreement it does not mean each state has to be the same. Oregon was cool as they are not a member of IFTA and did not care about me and my truck since we were not commercial. Arizona said I had to have permits, even for personal use, but when they found out we were moving on orders from the military they said never mind. NM said I was fine and didn't need permits since I was not commercial. LA was nice as all I had to do was make sure I bought fuel in their state before I hit the border on the way out. Since Texas made me buy permits (even had to buy an IRP permit for the trailer, they were the only state that required one for the trailer too) to drive through their state I held off buying fuel till I hit LA on the other side. Ended up needing over 200 gallons of diesel to fill the tanks up (have three tanks on the International) so LA worked out like a bandit on that one. IIRC MS was the same as LA, no permit needed as long as you bought fuel in their state. AL required permits but IIRC they were really cheap. Florida was the worst in the lower 48 though as you have to go through a private firm to get permits and both of them cost me over $100 combined. First open scale I hit on I-10 coming out of AL flagged me over for not having IRP or IFTA and got real anal about my permits.

So while I agree with you 100% what you and I think doesn't matter. All I can say at this point is I would like to see someone drive a civilian tandem axle cargo truck cross country (round trip) like I have and do it without getting a single permit based on the not commercial, not in commerce claim. I would even be willing to throw in $200 to their legal diffence fund too to help them out. But I can tell you right now they won't make it far.


Ruppster

 

[Ruppster]

You should also read the IFTA application:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/bmcs/85008.pdf

Lots of Motor Carrier info, business name, EIN etc etc .

Not what you need for a POV

I filled one of those IFTA forms out years ago so believe me I'm well aware what they involve. And I agree. Common sense tells you it is clearly meant for a business, not a "POV". When NC nailed me for lack of IFTA I left the truck at the next Flying J's on I-95 and went back up to VA in a different vehicle to the first town inside the state so I could hit DMV first thing in the morning for an IFTA sticker. As soon as the VA IFTA office in Richmond opened up I called them about what NC told me. They said that that was correct, I either needed IFTA or permits. Since an IFTA sticker was cheaper I went in to the DMV office in Emporia, VA, to get one. When I filled out the form and handed it over they said I could not have an IFTA sticker as I wasn't in "commerce", nor did I have another state that I was doing "commerce" with to require IFTA. I told them about NC and they looked at me like I was making it all up and that I must be crazy. It took about two hours of back and forth between the local DMV and Richmond before I was finally able to get an IFTA sticker and get back on the road.

The sad part is why Richmond said I needed IFTA. Because I was driving to another state I was "technically" in "commerce" with the place I was heading to. I asked them if they knew what "commerce" meant and it fell on deaf ears. I was driving from one state to another and that's all that mattered to them.


Ruppster

 

[oldMan99]

Holey Guacamole Batman, what a can of cat crap I opened here….

So…..

#1: If you have a retired (or even new I suppose) commercial type 18 wheeler (or one of the MV units that is essentially the same thing like an M916) and you remove the commercial 5th wheel plate from it, install a typical flat bed (also called a “Cargo bed”) and then install a RV type 5th wheel hitch on it, you now fit into the FLORIDA “Straight truck” category and are exempt from needing CDL, IFTA, permits, stamps and all that crap? But wait, it will be well larger than a 1 ton and will still have to go get weighed??

#2: If you take a MV or other “formerly commercial” vehicle, (Penske truck with 26’ box, air brakes, or commercial furniture delivery truck, 18 wheeler tractor with a “Condo sleeper” that has a bed, and a small $49 110v inverter (don’t most of the 18 wheeler “Condos” have 110V in them already anyway?) I can (In Florida anyway) register it as an RV and then NONE of any of this makes any difference at all. No CDL, no weight stations, no stamps, permits... no nothing when crossing any state lines, no issues with running the tractor only after I drop my RV trailer (or even a flatbed with my PERSONAL (Not company owned) race car or competition mud truck (As long as it is a hobby competition, not a company for profit) because it is registered as a RV.

I assume the scale people will have a stroke when you blow by w/o stopping because it will look just like every other 18 wheeler out there but you will have the “magic ticket” your Florida vehicle registration showing it is a RV. Now insurance might be another thing altogether…..

#3: According to the info about straight trucks (IN FLORIDA) then the M927/M928 (5 ton truck with the long (20’) bed) is CDL exempt because it is a straight truck. It also looks like if I cross state lines I might need IFTA, stamps/permits or all 3 because it is a tandem. But if registered as an RV, no problem. So… How to register as an RV…. I’m thinking install some brackets in the cab to hold a battlefield type medical stretcher for a bed and a small 110v inverter for an electric shaver and you have met the Florida requirement for a bed and 110v install and you qualify. And when your ready to drive you simply pull out the stretcher, store it someplace in/on the truck and off you go…. I suppose in theory this “Minimalist RV” install would work even in a (formerly) commercial 18 wheeler “Day cab” when intended for use pulling a privately owned non-commercial trailer for any personal use….??

Assuming #2 above is correct then it seems for my use to be sure it only makes sense to register thing as a RV one way or the other.

Comments?? Did I miss or misunderstand anything??

 

[Ruppster]

#1: If you have a retired (or even new I suppose) commercial type 18 wheeler (or one of the MV units that is essentially the same thing like an M916) and you remove the commercial 5th wheel plate from it, install a typical flat bed (also called a “Cargo bed”) and then install a RV type 5th wheel hitch on it, you now fit into the FLORIDA “Straight truck” category and are exempt from needing CDL, IFTA, permits, stamps and all that crap? But wait, it will be well larger than a 1 ton and will still have to go get weighed??

Yes, with the commercial fifth wheel removed and a flatbed in its place then it would not need a CDL in Florida. But as far as the requirement for IFTA or IRP that is a whole other can of worms (as Pual and I have been talking about). As Paul has documented IFTA pertains to "commerce" and "commercial". The problem is the main IFTA rules from IFTA HQ say that any tandem axle truck or trucks rated at 26,001 pounds and over fall under IFTA when driving out of their home state (IFTA is moot if you won't be driving out of the state of Florida as it does not apply till leaving the state you are registered in). But there are exemptions from IFTA for things like military or RV's (just what level of "RV" is another debate). IRP (International Registration Plan) is the same way. Commercial trucks are required to be registered under IRP (also called apportioned plates) for every state they will be driving through. The problem is they have the same issue as IFTA. They look at every tandem axle truck or any truck rated over 26,000 pounds as being under their rule (except things like military or RV's). But as I've mentioned several times it is a state by state issue. I have had some states allow me through without permits while others make me buy the trip permits. If you buy a large truck (be it a 6x6 or a commercial 18 wheeler) and plan on going outside of Florida my recommendation would be to get the IFTA and IRP manuals. In the back of them should be a phone number for each state that is for the state IFTA and IRP offices. They would be the ones to tell you whether they will let you through without a permit or not. If they do say you are fine since you are not for hire make sure to keep a log of who you talked to and when you made the call. I had a 1 hour standoff with a scale official in NM when we PCS'd back up to Alaska several years ago over this. The guy at the scale was trying to force me to buy permits but since the state office had already told me I didn't need them I refused. I told the guy to call his main office as they told me otherwise (what helped was the log I had about the call I made to his state) but he would not as he said he was right and the main office was wrong. So he kept pushing the permits. After going back and forth for a while I told him I would not buy the permits and he either called his main office or I was going to get back in my truck and drive away. He started to yell at me so I turned to the door and started walking away. He finally called the main office and actually yelled at the person on the other end that they were wrong. Talk about a royal a-hole. When he slammed the phone down after argueing for 5 minutes with his main office he looked at me and told me to "get the f#%$ out of my office".

Anyhow, back to the IFTA/IRP issue. While it is clearly meant for commercial trucks in commerce (as Paul has proven) calling each state ahead of time for their stance on this subject would be the safest thing to do. Explain to them you are private/not for hire. If they say you need permits ask for the regulation number that gives them that power. Or if you feel lucking feel free to just drive through another state without permits and if they stop you tell them your state doesn't require it for non commercial/commerce vehicles so they can't touch you. While you might be in the right if you don't have any regulations to show to back up your claim then you may not like the reaction you get from the Commercial LEO that stopped you.

As far as weigh scales again that is a state by state issue. Some states don't require personal use trucks (even large ones) to stop while others require even RV's to stop. So that would be something else to call each state that you want to drive through about. If you are driving a vehicle that still looks like it's military then you could drive right on by with a 99.9% chance that the scale official would not even give you a second glance as he will just assume you are military and don't need to stop. But would that be worth the risk?

#2: If you take a MV or other “formerly commercial” vehicle, (Penske truck with 26’ box, air brakes, or commercial furniture delivery truck, 18 wheeler tractor with a “Condo sleeper” that has a bed, and a small $49 110v inverter (don’t most of the 18 wheeler “Condos” have 110V in them already anyway?) I can (In Florida anyway) register it as an RV and then NONE of any of this makes any difference at all. No CDL, no weight stations, no stamps, permits... no nothing when crossing any state lines, no issues with running the tractor only after I drop my RV trailer (or even a flatbed with my PERSONAL (Not company owned) race car or competition mud truck (As long as it is a hobby competition, not a company for profit) because it is registered as a RV.

The easiest option would be the semi truck with the condo sleeper and converting it to something called a Toterhome. This is a vehicle that is technically an RV but also capable of pulling a toy hauler. It would need the same stuff in it that would be required to convert a box truck. The plus is that you already have the sleeping facilities with the condo sleeper. But I would use more then a $49 convertor. The more effort you put in to the conversion the less risk you have of a commercial LEO calling your conversion a half arse job of getting around trucking laws with a semi. Anyhow, since a Toterhome is classed as an RV the type of trailer (or lack thereof) would not matter. You would still fall under the RV exemption and you would have no issue with IFTA/IRP.

If you want to go the semi truck converted to Toterhome route let me know. I might be willing to trade my International for an M800 series 5 ton tractor.

I assume the scale people will have a stroke when you blow by w/o stopping because it will look just like every other 18 wheeler out there but you will have the “magic ticket” your Florida vehicle registration showing it is a RV. Now insurance might be another thing altogether…..

As far as scales go that is another issue. As I mentioned before that varies by state. The trick is if you are driving through a state that requires all trucks but RV's to stop what do you do. Technically you are an RV and legally can drive on by. The problem is is that your truck screams "I'm a commercial semi truck" to the people at the scalehouse. When I've driven through states with my non-commercial semi truck that didn't require me to stop I still stopped at the scales anyhow to let the people know while I may look commercial here's my registration to show I am not. I would rather spend a few minutes in the shelter of a building talking to a scale agent versus having the same conversion on the side of a busy highway with some agent after he chased me down thinking I ran his scales and he's ready to read me the riot act. But this is just a personal opinion. You might not need to stop but the official at the scale might not agree with that idea. I would rather have the conversation in a peaceful setting instead of on the side of the road with a pissed off LEO.

#3: According to the info about straight trucks (IN FLORIDA) then the M927/M928 (5 ton truck with the long (20’) bed) is CDL exempt because it is a straight truck. It also looks like if I cross state lines I might need IFTA, stamps/permits or all 3 because it is a tandem. But if registered as an RV, no problem. So… How to register as an RV…. I’m thinking install some brackets in the cab to hold a battlefield type medical stretcher for a bed and a small 110v inverter for an electric shaver and you have met the Florida requirement for a bed and 110v install and you qualify. And when your ready to drive you simply pull out the stretcher, store it someplace in/on the truck and off you go…. I suppose in theory this “Minimalist RV” install would work even in a (formerly) commercial 18 wheeler “Day cab” when intended for use pulling a privately owned non-commercial trailer for any personal use….??

"I might need IFTA, stamps/permits or all 3". No, not all and there are only two options (not three). The two areas of concern are IFTA and IRP. With those two items you can handle each one in one of two ways. With IFTA you can either register for IFTA in Florida and get what's called an IFTA sticker to put on your truck (you get two stickers, one for each side of the truck). The downside is you have to keep all fuel receipts and a log book of mileage for each state you drive through. Then each quarter you have to file a report showing where you bought fuel and how much mileage was driven. This is how they figure out what state should get the taxes you paid on the fuel. If you bought all your fuel from the state with the highest fuel tax then you will get a refund for the excess. If you bought the cheapest taxed fuel then you may have to pay the difference to any state you drove through that had a higher tax rate. If you plan on doing a lot of driving out of state then getting the actual IFTA sticker would most likely be the best option. But if you will only be going out of state once or twice a year then the second option for IFTA would be a better idea. For a one time trip you can get something called an IFTA trip permit. This is just a one time fee and does not require filing quarterly reports.

IRP is the same way. You can either get IRP license plates when you register the truck (if you will be driving out of state a lot) or you can get a trip permit on a state by state basis. Again, permits are the best option if you will only be going out of state once or twice a year. But as Paul and I have been talking about this is up to you whether you want to go the permit route at all as technically you should not have to get any permits in the first place as you are not really commercial to begin with. But that is your call. How lucky do you feel?

Now for the RV side of things. Yes, having RV registration would be the best way around registration (IRP) and fuel tax issues. Especially if you are using a chassis with tandem axles. But as you said how do you do it with a 5 ton military 6x6. One idea that's crossed my mind is to get a comm shelter that fits in the bed of a 5 ton cargo truck. Then convert said shelter in to an RV. If you weld the shelter to the cargo bed then you now have an RV and all you need to do is have it reclassed from a truck to an RV registration. The reason I recommend the welding is because the truck might not truely been seen as a full fledged RV because the RV section can otherwise be removed and the vehicle easily converted back to a truck. Kind of like having an RV camper in the bed of a pickup. What I have not looked in to is can you keep the 5 ton truck registered as a truck for use in state but when you drive out of state drop the comm shelter that's now a camper in to the bed to make it an RV. To me if a semi truck pulling an RV trailer is considered an RV combo then one would think that a cargo truck carrying an RV camper should be seen as an RV combo too. The trick is the registration will still call it a truck (one with tandem axles to boot) so will the camper in the bed have enough legal standing to cause the truck to fit within the exemptions that are given to an RV (i.e. no IFTA/IRP issues)? Common sense would say yes, it's an RV. But that's just my opinion. If you want to go that route I would call any state you want to drive through ahead of time and ask them.

Assuming #2 above is correct then it seems for my use to be sure it only makes sense to register thing as a RV one way or the other.

Comments?? Did I miss or misunderstand anything??

Yes, an RV status would be the best route. But as I mentioned don't go too cheap on the conversion. The more effort you put in to the conversion the better it will look in the eyes of a scale official. Plus if you are going for a Toterhome type conversion I would recommend doing a search on Google for toterhome weigh scale problems. Some states have been cracking down on race teams that have been abusing the RV exemption of a toterhome as they are using it for racing (i.e. the potential for prize money that could be seen as income).


Ruppster

 

[Ruppster]

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one.

We are not disagreeing.If an M818 is used, it IS a tractor by design and would need the CDL.

Sorry, forgot to touch on this one yesterday. I owe you an apology as I mis-read your comment. When you said "Unless you have an M818 class vehicle and put a 10,001 loaded trailer behind it sounds like you are safe" I read too much in to the "and" in the middle. I thought you were implying an M818 by itself did not need a CDL but once you added a trailer with a rating of 10,001 pounds or more then you had to have a commercial license in Florida. Since a 10,001 pound trailer makes no difference whether a CDL is needed when driving an M818 in Florida (just means you need a Class A instead of a Class B) I made the comment about the disagreement. But as I said that was based on my error in thinking you were saying an M818 didn't need a CDL at all untill a 10,001 pound trailer was hitched to it. I apologize for my mistake. Sorry about that Paul.


Ruppster

 

[paulfarber]

I think most of this is (as usual) made more difficult by each State adopting the *minimum* IFTA requirements, then adding State specific limits.

I found these posts (there is a club that restores antique tractor trailers:

American Truck Historical Society

And they seem to have the same questions (although most of the poss seem to be from 2004-2006).

It boils down to:

IFTA is just making up the rules.. the States (jurisdictions) must pass the laws.

States appears to be different.

FL seems to suck more than PA.

letter to the head of the IFTA program by Mark Woods, 22. Apr 2002 19:06

Just do a keyword search of ifta.

What they seem to have is several 'exemption letters' from States that accept the HISTORICALLY REGISTERED/LICENSED trucks that normally would meet IFTA rules, do not by because of their current registration status of antique. This makes complete sense, but not all States agree.

 

[Ruppster]

I think most of this is (as usual) made more difficult by each State adopting the *minimum* IFTA requirements, then adding State specific limits.

Could be right. Kind of like how the feds set forth guidelines about commercial truck drivers needing CDL's but when the states passes state laws to comply with the federal minimums they made changes to the laws that made things tougher (like CA for example).

I found these posts (there is a club that restores antique tractor trailers:

American Truck Historical Society

Yeah, that's the ATHS. Great group. I mentioned them the other day in a response to one of your posts. They deal with more then just semi tractors. Pretty much anything from old pickups on up to large transport trucks. Even have a guy on there that works with NASA on the space shuttles. I post over there under the same user name I use here. I'm more of a Mopar guy (the International I have now was a fluke and I talk about it on the ATHS forums) and I even have a web page that's dedicated to Dodge semi trucks (Ruppster's Dodge Semi Trucks web page).

Anyhow, back to the ATHS. Their main forum is at Truck Transportation History and the general chat section is the one called Road Kill Cafe. Don't need to be a member to read the forums or see the pictures (it's free to register if you want to join in). And they love big military trucks. Freight_Train is even over there spreading his love for SS too.

And they seem to have the same questions (although most of the poss seem to be from 2004-2006).

It boils down to:

IFTA is just making up the rules.. the States (jurisdictions) must pass the laws.

States appears to be different.

FL seems to suck more than PA.

letter to the head of the IFTA program by Mark Woods, 22. Apr 2002 19:06

Just do a keyword search of ifta.

Yeah, there's been a lot of conversations over there about IFTA and IRP over the years. The thread you gave the link for was one that was on the old server and was transferred over to the new one when they did a system upgrade a couple years ago. That's why the format is different on that one then most other threads as it had to me done manually.

What they seem to have is several 'exemption letters' from States that accept the HISTORICALLY REGISTERED/LICENSED trucks that normally would meet IFTA rules, do not by because of their current registration status of antique. This makes complete sense, but not all States agree.

ATHS has gotten several "exemption letters" over the years but most of them were short term ones for states they held their annual conventions in so those coming in for the convention would not need to worry about permits. The problem is (in my opinion) when they get such a short term letter from a state it implies that IFTA would normally apply to the trucks in the first place. Plus they are pushing for an exemption from IFTA only for antique tagged trucks. Many states won't issue antique tags for trucks. Florida won't do it for anything over 5,000 pounds unless it is an ex-military or firetruck. So I can't get the permanent antique tags down here for my International since it is not a former military truck. Regular tags are about $300 to $500 a year (depending on what level I set the registered weight to). That's what got me researching the toterhome conversion as RV tags are a lot cheaper.


Ruppster