Oshkosh Snow plow W/ frozen motor

[BBoomerBootCamp]

So my Oshkosh WT2206 was transported to Alex at Idaho Motor Pool. Turns out despite the claims of the boyz at Burns Airport that it's running condition should be "just fine", its 1091ci Hall Scott motor is frozen tight as a drum.
I had a long and fruitful conversation with Alex earlier this week, he's in a very busy spot with a large order of trucks to fill. It was decided that he would pour some Marvel oil back down the spark plug holes, close it up for a couple more weeks to get his buisness done and try to turn it over again in mid December. He's a good man with his time and effort, my truck was more or less dropped into his lap, we never expected a froze motor. I told him that my only options would be to try and find a buyer for it as a parts truck or scrap it. Neither one of us is fond of the scrap route, we both think and feel with a little more time and imagination we might be able to free up the motor and fire up the old girl some time in December.
I'm posting to ask for experience and stories of frozen motor being freed up and brought back to life. Did you have any workable out comes, was there a trick or 2 up your sleeve.
Thanks,
Mark

 

[Heath_h49008]

Marvel works. I have also used ATF, and pulled the accessory belts off and checked clutches and found out the engine wasn't the locked up part.

Most of my experience has been on cars. It might be nothing big.

Good luck!

 

[hippiedude]

I had a 69 nova with a 250 six that was froze up ........... The old man I got it from put 1 can of coke a cola in each cylinder 3 or 4 days later it was running real good .............. Tim

 

[73m819]

When I got my 5t autocar, it was FROZE tight, pulled the plugs, pored in a mix of 50% transmission oil and 50% MARVEL, let it soak about a week, then bared (a BIG bar) it just enough to move it over a bit about 1", let it sit , next day bared in the other direction about 2" let it set, next day the other direction again about 3", did this for about 2 weeks, only bared till it felt tight, once I got a full revolution, with the bar, i put it in 3rd hi, pulled it with my pickup one direction one night then the other way the next night for another week, after that got it turning over with the starter, then stuffed rags tied to a wire, sopped up the oil, put the plugs in, changed the oil, cleaned the points, she FIRED off, once things cleaned up, no smoke or oil EXCESS consumption (same for later on), so don't think any rings were broke, I pulled the valve covers to make sure the top end was good and not stuck. the bottom line is soak and take your time, DO NOT force it

 

[supermechanic]

Check out this;
THE BAR STARTER

For that matter, look over the whole website, lots of good mechanical info.

 

[BBoomerBootCamp]

Thanks for the reply's. An old timer that runs the old Mining Ghost town up in Jerome collects old gasser motors. He told me a story about a 1920's IHC that was in a field in S. Cal. for about 20 years. He haled it to Jerome and let it sit for another 6 years. One day he jacked up the front end by using the hand crank as a point to place the jack under, filled it with Marvel oil, watched it for 2 months before it finally broke loose. Today it runs and starts with know effort at all, he has several stories of frozen motor he has limped back to life.

 

[booger]

Ole Don at the Gold King Mine, great guy! He keeps his Harley flat tracker in his living room, ya gotta love that.

 

[73m819]

On the avacado ranch I ran in CA. many years ago, was a pile of old bits and pieces, junk ect. the pile was about 15' high, that "was THE PILE" that just through it on the pile, well it was decided to clean up, we found a old 39 IH 1 1/2 ton somewhere near the bottom, drug it to the shop, soaked the he!! out of everything, after a while started baring, my Mexican mechanic took the project on as a personal project, in two months he had it running good, three months driving it around and stopping, fixed the mechanical two speed rear, rad. ect, ect. when I left 2 years later it was still running great, though you might get hurt if you tried to drive the truck, it was the MECHANICS truck

 

[JAYHAWK 1962]

Bar starter cool idea. Looks like a whole lotta of leverage from that setup.

 

[Heath_h49008]

NOOOOO!!!!!


You don't want leverage!!! You'll make history with the rings and maybe a rod or a valve depending upon what's wrong! If you just want to say "Screw it" drag it behind the tractor and dump the clutch.

The oil/detergent/lubes are cleaning out the rust and freeing the engine to move with just a breaker bar. Any more than that and you can do damage.

 

[BBoomerBootCamp]

I've been in touch with the gentleman that owns the Hall Scott motor site and rites. He advice that I drop the pan and place a hydraulic jack under the crank. Says motor turns clockwise from the drivers side position, so if I have the jack placed under the crank with the proper rotation with just a small amount of pressure as the motor soaks in Marvel oil. Given a window of time to soak with pressure on the crank it may release the motor. It would work similar to what Don did in Jerome with the 20's IH. I don't want to trash a historical Hall Scott if at all possible, and I'm limited by being 800 miles away from Idaho Motor Pool.
Having Alex at the ready assures me of the best case solution

 

[rlwm211]

I would suggest letting it soak for a while and then connect an air hose to a cylinder that is on the firing stroke. Connect it to a pressure source and let it sit. The compressed air can provide a lot more persuasion on the piston and the rest of the rotating assembly than you can with a bar, starter, or even towing it.

Make sure you mark the main pulley and check it a couple of days later and you will probably find the piston that was at the top of the firing stroke at the bottom.

I do not know how many cylinders this engine has but assuming it is 8 cylinders that allows for 136 cuin percylinder and if you apply 100 psi you are creating 13,600 pounds of force on the piston. Something will movie if it can.

Just my idea...take it or leave it.

RL

 

[73m819]

I would suggest letting it soak for a while and then connect an air hose to a cylinder that is on the firing stroke. Connect it to a pressure source and let it sit. The compressed air can provide a lot more persuasion on the piston and the rest of the rotating assembly than you can with a bar, starter, or even towing it.

Make sure you mark the main pulley and check it a couple of days later and you will probably find the piston that was at the top of the firing stroke at the bottom.

I do not know how many cylinders this engine has but assuming it is 8 cylinders that allows for 136 cuin percylinder and if you apply 100 psi you are creating 13,600 pounds of force on the piston. Something will movie if it can.

Just my idea...take it or leave it.

RL

not looking for brute force here, but GENTLE persuasion other wise things will break starting with rings and scored up cylinder walls, besides rings, bend rods, break a cranksfaft, ect, what starts as a simple stuck motor that needed some soaking turns into a pos boat anchor when bubber and brut force gets to it.

I have got quite a few FROZE motors THAWED with the SLOW, SOAK, a little at a time movement, , it does work just not fast. Trying to go fast, most times means another motor install or a major rebuild in the long run, so not really much saved in the end

 

[waayfast]

Heath and 73m819 is correct, there is a lot to be said for going SLOW in a case like this---a very rare "orphan" engine that may be expensive or impossible to get replacement parts for.

Breaking something with brute force is NOT good.

Soaking is good but please don't use D-8 Cats, dynamite or small thermonuclear devices in the quest to get it to turn--it may just get TURNED into JUNK.

I really need to get one of my Cletrac HG-42's running--snow removal time is here--but my froze Continental engine turns out to be more than just stuck rings. The little flat head engine's valve train is also stuck---had I not checked further into the problem and just FORCED it on thru, I probly would have broke the cam--and ruined some valves.

Others on here will correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the same Hall-Scott engine that powers the M26 Pacific?? I would NOT want the accidental DEATH of a potential spare engine of a M-26 on MY concience.

Jim

 

[simp5782]

Always soaked the cylinders with PB plaster for a day and then added coke to them the next day. It worked well.

 

[simp5782]

So my Oshkosh WT2206 was transported to Alex at Idaho Motor Pool. Turns out despite the claims of the boyz at Burns Airport that it's running condition should be "just fine", its 1091ci Hall Scott motor is frozen tight as a drum.
I had a long and fruitful conversation with Alex earlier this week, he's in a very busy spot with a large order of trucks to fill. It was decided that he would pour some Marvel oil back down the spark plug holes, close it up for a couple more weeks to get his buisness done and try to turn it over again in mid December. He's a good man with his time and effort, my truck was more or less dropped into his lap, we never expected a froze motor. I told him that my only options would be to try and find a buyer for it as a parts truck or scrap it. Neither one of us is fond of the scrap route, we both think and feel with a little more time and imagination we might be able to free up the motor and fire up the old girl some time in December.
I'm posting to ask for experience and stories of frozen motor being freed up and brought back to life. Did you have any workable out comes, was there a trick or 2 up your sleeve.
Thanks,
Mark

BTW there was a 51' Oshkosh posted on the spokane CL for $1k and the owner says it ran a few years ago. In case you needs parts. Don't know much about them.

 

[EMD567]

I broke a Pontiac 389 loose using kroil and gentle pressure back and forth on the crank. Took me about 4-5 days, and then I spun it with the starter motor. Changed the oil, buttoned up the engine, and she started right up.

 

[BBoomerBootCamp]

the hall Scott is a straight six, it's pistons are about as big around as a soccer ball. I do not know for sure how many rings were used, it might take a longer soaking treatment given size of motor. It is also worth a mention that the WT 2206 has a auto tranny, no pulling to be done. So if I place a jack on the crank to apply a constant pressure would that be considered To Much for this motor?
One more question, how does the Coke work after the penetrating oil has soaked in?

 

[dburd72]

frozen engine

Like others have said marvel in the cylinders & what I have done is to fill the crank case w atf & diesel as high as possible

 

[Tow4]

+1 atf