1952 XM211 Repower / Powertrain Swap

[Valley Rock]

M35A2 transfer case front axle output shaft spins wrong way for the GMC front axle.

So why can't I just flip the front center section upside down to match the Rockwell T-case input ?

 

[hendersond]

Flip the front center section upside down and it spins the right way. You need to do 2 other things.
1. Grind a notch in the housing so the ring gear fits in the housing.
2. You have to cut 1/2"-3/4" off one of the axle shafts. I can't remember what side, but it is obvious.
I have done it on an axle stuffed in a pulling truck many years ago.
Thanks for initiating the discussion. Keep us posted.

 

[Valley Rock]

Flip the front center section upside down and it spins the right way. You need to do 2 other things.
1. Grind a notch in the housing so the ring gear fits in the housing.
2. You have to cut 1/2"-3/4" off one of the axle shafts. I can't remember what side, but it is obvious.
I have done it on an axle stuffed in a pulling truck many years ago.
Thanks for initiating the discussion. Keep us posted.

Alright, there we go, just looking at the front diff it seemed doable (do-able) ?

But what I am going to do first since it needs to be done anyway is transplant the enine/trans combo and hook that to the stock T-case set-up and see how it feels runs and drives like that, then I'll go from there, you guys will be the second to know . Thank you .

 

[nattieleather]

I think for what you need the truck to do the engine/trans swap is a good idea. Just keep the original engine to either go back in later or to sell to someone who needs it for their truck. You have some good advice here and also post lots of pics of the work in progress. Good luck with your project.

 

[hendersond]

Yes, post pictures and consider selling your take out parts.
There are a few threads showing trucks that have been re-powered. I remember one the had a 350 chevy with a 4 speed. Another had a engine trans out of a C65 chevy. I think it was a 366 or 427 truck motor with an 5 speed. There was another with a 2 stroke diesel. That video made everyone smile.
I have seen a few first hand. I can't remember the engine trans combo, but remember problems with the top dog bone being in the way of the starter. That person had to cut the dogbone and mount out. Then made the front spring mounts solid so the shackle was only in the rear. This truck is unique as both ends of the spring have floating shackles for more articulation, thus the need for dogbones.
Another person measured a chevy engine with a automatic and gear transfer case. He felt it could all fit in front of the existing transfer case allowing the new transfer case to have low range and still keep the original dual rear output transfer case. I don't know the outcome as the builder may have lost steam and sold the truck.
If you keep the original transfer case and add some other transmission be aware of the automatic sprag inside the transfer case that actuates the front driveshaft. It is my understanding the transfer case has to be shifted to either forward or neutral for it to engage. If I remember correctly the sprag engages at about 6% slippage. There is linkage from the trans to the transfer case to change direction of the sprag or something like that. The manuals go into more details. Have you downloaded them yet?

 

[hendersond]

I just watched your video. That transmission has a REB Kit installed. Thanks for the video!

 

[USMC 00-08]

Can you give us more details on how you upgraded the fuel pump to one from an M35A2? What modifications were required?

You've got some really neat ideas.

 

[Valley Rock]

I will be flipping the front axle and rotating the pinion down on my truck's front axle. My set up is 6BTA, Eaton FSO-6046 and a Ford NP205 transfer case. It will be used for hauling stuff, but not lugging a bazzilion pounds of water up hills and dales so the NP 205 is too light duty for you. Just some things to think about.

Hmmmmm, I have a bunch of questions about this, so here goes ...

I'm assuming that 12 valve and 6 speed hooked together in their previous life like in a delivery truck ?

You must have a divorced F205 as I have never seen one bolted to the back of an Eaton ?

Why are you going to all the trouble to flip that front axle, is this all to make room for the Cummins exhaust ? I must be missing something because I doubt you would do all that work for a downpipe .

 

[m1010plowboy]

It's that 50's technology where they decided to use the same axle on the front. Since it runs a different direction with the pumpkin facing in, they had to design the front drive in the TC to go 'backwards'.

Flipping the front axle will let you run a modern TC where the front drive runs 'forward'. I think the top dog bone clearance will become apparent when you lower a different engine in there. Everything has a solution though.

There's one more test you can do on your truck to see if the TC is working properly. Find a slick hill and see if the front axle engages when you back up. If your original TC is coming out and getting sold a little back up a hill video would say a lot.

 

[Valley Rock]

It's that 50's technology where they decided to use the same axle on the front. Since it runs a different direction with the pumpkin facing in, they had to design the front drive in the TC to go 'backwards'.

Well if that's the case then he could leave the front axle housing in the stock position, flip the chunk (3rd member) and just run a chevy T-case for pass drop .

Flipping the front axle will let you run a modern TC where the front drive runs 'forward'. I think the top dog bone clearance will become apparent when you lower a different engine in there. Everything has a solution though.

If dog bone clearance becomes an issue on my repower, then dogbones will go away and fix mount @ front leafs and rear shackles will come into play, I think that is a goofy overcomplicated unnecessary setup anyway and if it gives me a seconds trouble it's gone, they say it's for additional articulation, which I need not at all .

There's one more test you can do on your truck to see if the TC is working properly. Find a slick hill and see if the front axle engages when you back up. If your original TC is coming out and getting sold a little back up a hill video would say a lot.

T-case is staying where its at, as it has the two rear outputs needed for the M211 way of powering the rear drivers .

 

[gentrysgarage]

Hmmmmm, I have a bunch of questions about this, so here goes ... I'm assuming that 12 valve and 6 speed hooked together in their previous life like in a delivery truck ?

If i was smart I would have used the engine/tranny from the same truck, but wasn't so lucky to get all the ingredients in one vechicle and after 2 years of waiting for said vehicle I bought what was available...and a side note I would pass on any part from Active Truck Parts in Co..

You must have a divorced F205 as I have never seen one bolted to the back of an Eaton ?

There was a guy in New Mexico that was gearing up to make it possible but in the end he was getting really sick and he stop posting. I happened to have the Ford 205 around.

Why are you going to all the trouble to flip that front axle, is this all to make room for the Cummins exhaust ? I must be missing something because I doubt you would do all that work for a downpipe .

See above, it does help with clearance, not that it isn't doable.

More notes suggestions for you everything Hendersond said is right on track,

There was another M135/211 guy whose avatar was Colenel Potter also had some good suggestions/memories...I am sure some one here knows who this is.

Check out my thread: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?172124-M135-S-and-M-Build&highlight=gentrysgarage

Also search on the duece mod subforum under my name fo other mods that I commented on for my M135..hydro Max master cylinder and power steering.

You could also check out my YouTube channel, after I singled it out I started to mod the engine compartment for the Cummins https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiUuhKuqb_jIllwP7Zp-jBw?view_as=subscriber

I have been tied up with other things but will be doing more to my M135 shortly ...after I go to Texas on recon for a new base camp this next week!

 

[Valley Rock]

If you keep the original transfer case and add some other transmission be aware of the automatic sprag inside the transfer case that actuates the front driveshaft. It is my understanding the transfer case has to be shifted to either forward or neutral for it to engage. If I remember correctly the sprag engages at about 6% slippage. There is linkage from the trans to the transfer case to change direction of the sprag or something like that. The manuals go into more details. Have you downloaded them yet?

I dug around a bit and could not actually find what I was looking for, I wanted to see a breakdown of the inner workings of that funky Hi-Lo on the back of the Hydromatic and also the T-case, I'm sure the manuals are there, but as most of the time I'm on my phone it can be hard to see and navigate, I won't object if someone throws a link up, or I'll keep looking when time allows .

Can you give us more details on how you upgraded the fuel pump to one from an M35A2? What modifications were required?

I can, but If I had to do it again I most likely would not do it the way I did, I simply used the gasket as a template and cut the round Deuce mount flange to fit within the 211 mount flange, cut out the center of the 211 flange and welded the two together, then since the tank is shorter you just slide the pump up the mult-hole drop brackets and done. In hindsight I should have just repaired the old pump which was packed with this weird grey chalk like substance that turns to dust between your fingers, don't know what it was, still dont, and it's still in there in the stock old pump . The newer style Deuce of pump puts out alot more pressure as my cheapo plastic fuel filter is mildly puffed out , since there is no return on this gas motor I believe that issue will be eliminated when the diesel engine goes in .

Why are you going to all the trouble to flip that front axle, is this all to make room for the Cummins exhaust ? I must be missing something because I doubt you would do all that work for a downpipe .

Going to quote myself here to say that I finally realized what the reason is, and of course it's that upper link that is a half inch away from the starter now in stock configuration, so that's what I was missing [Homer]

 

[topo]

Looking at the double shackle set up on the m-211 front axle maybe making a new front spring mount that drops down to keep the right pinion level and lets the spring pin in with out the shackle .

The torque rods would not be needed.

 

[Valley Rock]

Looking at the double shackle set up on the m-211 front axle maybe making a new front spring mount that drops down to keep the right pinion level and lets the spring pin in with out the shackle . The torque rods would not be needed.

Indeed, I'm not at all a fan of what is going on with that front axle mounting wise, and since the front leafs already have a shackle at the front, I could remove those ginourmus rear brackets hanging down for the rear shackle/control arm mounts, along with the upper control arm, and just build a simple bracket at the rear leaf and do away with about 240 lbs worth of "in my way" .

Some will say the shackles should be at the rear of the leaf for improved driveability, and I won't argue that, but since the front leafs already have the shackle at the front and front shackles work better off road because they increase forward bite, I'm inclined to leave them that way and see how it goes .

The front axle also doesn't have much for front spring perches since it simply was not necessary in that design, so I may give the leafs a bit more of a place to sit also if I go that route .

 

[rustystud]

Indeed, I'm not at all a fan of what is going on with that front axle mounting wise, and since the front leafs already have a shackle at the front, I could remove those ginourmus rear brackets hanging down for the rear shackle/control arm mounts, along with the upper control arm, and just build a simple bracket at the rear leaf and do away with about 240 lbs worth of "in my way" .

Some will say the shackles should be at the rear of the leaf for improved driveability, and I won't argue that, but since the front leafs already have the shackle at the front and front shackles work better off road because they increase forward bite, I'm inclined to leave them that way and see how it goes .

The front axle also doesn't have much for front spring perches since it simply was not necessary in that design, so I may give the leafs a bit more of a place to sit also if I go that route .

All the IHC Scouts had front mounted shackles. Yes they handled a bit wonky at times, but off road they where great !

 

[Valley Rock]

That's a pretty rare beast from a Civil Defense aspect so grabbing pictures and storing them at one of the U.S. CD museums would be real cool. http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/

I dug around in there a bit and didn't see a place to upload pics of my old truck, here is a pic of the CD sticker that is still up in the back of the cab behind driver .

Things are sort of on hold for this truck at the moment as I focus on my M50/M35A2 to make sure it is ready for inspection, I may leave the GMC alone until after inspection then deal with it, because at least it does run and drive at this point and there is plenty of other things that need fixing as well like the Onan pump engine on the back that was full of water when I bought the truck, If I can't resurrect that I will have to replace it with something else .

 

[m1010plowboy]

I think you can email pics to Eric but I see he hasn't been active for a while so we're doing a check on him. We have a dedicated section, both virtual and physical, for the American Civil Defence history we find that compliments the story up here. There's not much CD history left so even that sticker makes today a better day. Thanks for sharing it.