6CTA8.3 engine rebuild for Sur Móvil

[WillWagner]

Call Cummins with your ESN and see if there is a ReCon pump available, just to see if there is a big difference in price. It will be"stock" so you will need to tinker with timing mods.

 

[74M35A2]

Apology to pollute the stock 5t thread, but if you are thinking P pump anyway:

I have a Bosch P-7100 "P" pump, pump driven gear, injection lines, and intake manifold cover for charge air cooler, all removed from a 300hp 8.3L (1995 Freightliner FL70 or 80 single axle box truck). I would also include high flow 8.3L injectors, if I could find them. I do have them somewhere. For the price you are ready to pay to have your MW pump gone through, I would ship it all to you, and guarantee it to work. That is one heck of a deal on the P pump alone, and the obscure to find injection lines. People sell MRAP charge air coolers here cheap, you would be good to go. The 8.3L P pump is usually a very pricy product.

You could also use a P pump from a 5.9L as well, but those have an external oil supply line, which is easy to do, but you then need to block off the tiny oil delivery hole in the pump mounting face on the timing cover rear side. Not a big deal. I have one of each "P" pump types, 5.9L and 8.3L. You would be the first here to P pump a 5 ton, I think. Do not get a P pump off a DT466 engine, where they are also common to be found. Those are reverse rotation pumps.

 

[Mos68x]

Tried to PM you Clint, but you inbox is full. Honestly it would have to be about the same cost for me to consider it. About $1000 is what is left that I’d have to pay to get that pump fixed, and honestly all I can afford (monthly check from the VA for disabilities)

 

[Mos68x]

Call Cummins with your ESN and see if there is a ReCon pump available, just to see if there is a big difference in price. It will be"stock" so you will need to tinker with timing mods.

$2100 with exchange from Cummins.

 

[Jbulach]

.

Hey Mos, you still out there? Making any progress?

 

[Mos68x]

Hey Mos, you still out there? Making any progress?

I’ve been trying to make progress, but I’ve been waiting on the pump shop. Actually called them this morning and got bad news. Apparently there was a problem with something called anerobic or some crap and I guess it is a part that isn’t sold as a replacement. To top that off the guy that works on these pumps is on vacation until the 7th, so I won’t hear anything until after that. They said they already tried to reach out to other shops, but have had no luck. I guess when that guy gets back they’ll go through their boneyard and see if they have anything serviceable.

Other than that, all I have to do is weld up a new intake shell and the rest is a waiting game. Going to need the truck soon though as I know my roads are nasty during the winter.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I’ve been trying to make progress, but I’ve been waiting on the pump shop. Actually called them this morning and got bad news. Apparently there was a problem with something called anerobic or some crap and I guess it is a part that isn’t sold as a replacement. To top that off the guy that works on these pumps is on vacation until the 7th, so I won’t hear anything until after that. They said they already tried to reach out to other shops, but have had no luck. I guess when that guy gets back they’ll go through their boneyard and see if they have anything serviceable.

Other than that, all I have to do is weld up a new intake shell and the rest is a waiting game. Going to need the truck soon though as I know my roads are nasty during the winter.

that would be an aniroid also known as an afc or air fuel control some folks call it a smoke valve to it adjusts the fuel rate to match boost and helps limit extreme smoke under acceleration.

 

[Mos68x]

Still waiting on a call from the shop, at this point I’m going to have to wait until next next month to pick the pump up...assuming they have even fixed it. If this ends up being a bust I may end up just getting the setup from Clint or just finding another pump online somewhere instead.

 

[74M35A2]

I have two Bosch P-7100 "P" pumps. One is off an 8.3L, and one is off a 5.9L. I am keeping the 8.3L one until I have my ISL conversion complete. I would sell the 5.9L one immediately. It came from a truck salvage yard, with a 90 day guarantee, so it should be good. The only difference between the 5.9L and 8.3L Bosch "P" pumps is the way oil is fed to the injection pump. With the 8.3L, there is a very small hole in the back surface of the timing cover where the pump mounts that feeds into the injection pump. On the 5.9L, the pump is fed by an external oil line (you could easily do via a tee off the oil pressure sending unit, or any open oil pressure galley port). They both drain back the same way, which is simple overflow out the front roller bearing (no seal) and spills into the timing cover. This is why it is important to fill the pump with oil first, because the fill flow rate is kind of slow (possible restrictor in line), so you don't want to start it dry. I think the 5.9L pump simply blocks the oil feed hole in the timing cover, or you could plug it with a gasket or pipe plug threaded in flush. The 5.9L injection pump mounting gasket probably plugs it by itself. It is very small diameter, so pretty low total pressure on it. People have put 5.9L pumps on 8.3's, and vice-versa. You can check some articles on the Dodge forums for more info. I stopped once I saw it can work both ways pretty easily. They are both 12mm plungers and barrels, as to where our Bosch MW pumps are 10mm elements. This is the difference in power capability (about 300hp vs 400hp of fuel flow). You may also be able to simply drill the hole in the face of the 5.9L pump, and cap the external line.

The P pumps are capable of 400hp as-is. I'd hate to see you install it, get excited, slide the fuel plate forward, and have all your rocker arms fall off again.

Sorry these pumps are not cheap. I'd go less than market though, $750 for the 5.9L "P" pump. They are typically +$1,000 used with no warranty. I'd offer a refund if it did not work out for you for any reason. Would like to see your truck operational and you enjoying it. I think you'd be the first one here with a P pump M939a2. Then there would be two of us that could eat Simp's lunch.

 

[Mos68x]

I have two Bosch P-7100 "P" pumps. One is off an 8.3L, and one is off a 5.9L. I am keeping the 8.3L one until I have my ISL conversion complete. I would sell the 5.9L one immediately. It came from a truck salvage yard, with a 90 day guarantee, so it should be good. The only difference between the 5.9L and 8.3L Bosch "P" pumps is the way oil is fed to the injection pump. With the 8.3L, there is a very small hole in the back surface of the timing cover where the pump mounts that feeds into the injection pump. On the 5.9L, the pump is fed by an external oil line (you could easily do via a tee off the oil pressure sending unit, or any open oil pressure galley port). They both drain back the same way, which is simple overflow out the front roller bearing (no seal) and spills into the timing cover. This is why it is important to fill the pump with oil first, because the fill flow rate is kind of slow (possible restrictor in line), so you don't want to start it dry. I think the 5.9L pump simply blocks the oil feed hole in the timing cover, or you could plug it with a gasket or pipe plug threaded in flush. The 5.9L injection pump mounting gasket probably plugs it by itself. It is very small diameter, so pretty low total pressure on it. People have put 5.9L pumps on 8.3's, and vice-versa. You can check some articles on the Dodge forums for more info. I stopped once I saw it can work both ways pretty easily. They are both 12mm plungers and barrels, as to where our Bosch MW pumps are 10mm elements. This is the difference in power capability (about 300hp vs 400hp of fuel flow). You may also be able to simply drill the hole in the face of the 5.9L pump, and cap the external line.

The P pumps are capable of 400hp as-is. I'd hate to see you install it, get excited, slide the fuel plate forward, and have all your rocker arms fall off again.

Sorry these pumps are not cheap. I'd go less than market though, $750 for the 5.9L "P" pump. They are typically +$1,000 used with no warranty. I'd offer a refund if it did not work out for you for any reason. Would like to see your truck operational and you enjoying it. I think you'd be the first one here with a P pump M939a2. Then there would be two of us that could eat Simp's lunch.

Give me a call so we can work out details - 928-350-9048 if I don’t answer just leave a message and I’ll call back when I have signal (I’ll be out in the woods cutting firewood)

 

[74M35A2]

Going to send him the 5.9L P pump to try. If works, then pay. Also going to pre-cut a mounting gasket for him to seal off the oiling port in the 8.3L timing case. MW injector lines may or may not fit, TBD.

Install sequence:

Rotate engine to #1 TDC (compression not exhaust), push in timing pin on rear of gear case cover.
Rotate injection pump shaft so timing pin can also be pushed in. Don't mark up the tapered gear mounting surface.
Mount 5.9L injection pump, lube O ring, and use supplied gasket to block timing case oiling hole.
Use cleaner to clean pump shaft, then install injection pump driven gear, torque gear mounting nut to spec (let me know if you need that #). This is a critical step, they slip otherwise.
Connect fuel supply, return, and high pressure injection lines.
Connect injection pump oil line to an oil supply port (engine oil pressure sending T, etc...).
Connect manifold boost reference air line to injection pump aneroid.
Pull out both timing pins, add 1 quart of engine oil to top of pump to pre-fill it.
Bleed air from low and high pressure delivery lines.
Connect throttle linkage.
Start engine.
Go fast.
Send Clint $.

You may need to move over your throttle bracketry from your MW. Also, the 5.9L fuel shut down solenoid is in a different location, it is completely vertical. This one will be 12v, you will need to get a 24v solenoid for it, then it should be fine, or just use your mechanical shut down cable. You may be able to move your shut down solenoid, bracket, and lever, over to the P pump. Using the above method, your engine will have 5.9L injection timing, which is likely more than the stock 8.3L MW pump, but not a dangerous amount as long as it is not more than 16 degrees. This pump may be off an industrial 5.9L, and not necessarily a Dodge Ram, so the injection timing may be more conservative than it was set on Ram applications. Should be fine to just plug and play.

 

[Jbulach]

Sorry, zoned out and went straight to send Clint$ in the instal sequence.

Thought I remember Will suggesting the p pump would need 8.3 p pump specific lines, as in 8.3 mw high pressure line wouldn’t work? Not trying to Dick up a sale, just know neither of you need any surprises!

 

[74M35A2]

TBD, we’re about to find out. They look nearly the same, inline pump made by the same company, so maybe just a matter of the nut thread type. Even of mot, Cummins civilian on-road 8.3’s use P pumps, so lines are available and probably not expensive. This will be interesting to watch, I hope it makes tons of power for him.

It ships out to him early next week.

 

[Jbulach]

Yep, hopefully a bolt on and let’er rip deal. Will be good info to learn either way for the rest of us wanting to stress test our tranny’s...

 

[74M35A2]

Here are pics of the outbound pump. Connectivity looks near exact same as MW, regarding fuel inlet, outlet, bleed screw, mounting, etc. Noted differences are pump oil supply fitting (block side of pump), shut-down solenoid (just bracket in this case, needs 24v solenoid), possibly governor (throttle) control lever swap?

I'll post some pics here, in case there are any P pump experts. This looks to be off a commercial 5.9L (Ford F-750 stake truck, etc...), so it is likely calibrated to 215hp or so of fuel flow currently. That is easily changed via the fuel plate position or type or presence. Just install the pump and get it working first. 90 day warranty from when I bought it. Numbers decode as a Bosch P-7100 "P" pump, with 12mm plungers and correct rotation for Cummins (DT466 is opposite). She should be ready to deliver every inch of 400hp if you dare.

 

[74M35A2]

Update, he found out this may not work. 4 bolt mount pattern is different. Symmetric on MW, not symmetric on this particular P-7100 pump. Guess this one goes to eBay.

 

[WillWagner]

Bosch # 0402736842 is a 190 HP @ 2500, 475 ft lb @1600 torque rating with 11.5 degrees of timing, B series engine. Gov break....unloaded governor speed is 2825 to 2925 RPM. Is is an RQVK governor.

Bad news is that the MW series fuel lines will not work on work on a P pump, delivery valves are different, IIRC, MW is 12mm and P is 14mm.

MOST of the P pumped B series engines were charge air cooled, not after cooled like the C in the 900 series truck, so finding lines might be tough. RSV is a variable speed governor and the RQVK is an automotive governor. The difference is that the RQVK acts like your car, the farther you push the pedal, the more "go" you get. The RSV will try to keep the RPM the same no matter where the pedal is. Think CAT v.s Cummins throttle response.

 

[Mos68x]

Sorry for the late update fellas. Found, ordered, and received a new pump, and I do mean NEW. Slightly different, but only on the governor settings side. Will helped me verify that it would work before I ordered it. Also ordered and received the new elbow for air compressor inlet as well as the intake gasket and the materials to recreate a shell in place of the aftercooler. Right now I’m waiting on a new tripod before I install/make everything so that I can record it for YT. That should be here on tues.

 

[Mos68x]

Today I finally spent some time working on the truck, most of this past week has been recovery from a wrist injury and the week before was all welding on the ISO frame. I spent a little time with the tech supervisor at Cummins and explained my problem. Basically, the head I got was an incorrect PP#. For me to use this head, that I had already rebuilt, I’d need to remove the freeze plug and install the elbow for the air compressor inlet. No big deal, I just drilled a hole in the center of it, put a bolt through it and pryed it out with a crowbar. Then I moved on to the new fuel pump, or rather attempting to mount it. I forgot how aggravating getting that pump on and off is. I finally got the 3 nuts I could find installed, but I’ll have to make a run into town and get a new nut to replace one of the lost ones. BTW, I still haven’t heard from the pump shop yet about my original pump. Tomorrow I’ll be in town getting a load of steel and Thursday it’ll be raining so hopefully Friday I can make some progress.

 

[Mos68x]

Haven’t done an update in a while



I got the aftercooler replacement tacked together with the MIG yesterday, and hopefully I can finish it up with TIG tomorrow or the day after.



Also drove to TMG so I could get the parts I needed to get the truck driving, or at least I hope. Somehow my throttle linkage bracket on the fuel pump walked off since I pulled it off over a year ago. Sat there and chatted with Rob for way longer than I should’ve too lol

Once I have the aftercooler replacement finished I’ll put it in and finish the pump install, such as setting the timing (just general timing with the pins, not spill port timing), and hook up the fuel injector lines. I’m hoping I can get all that done by this weekend, but I’ve been saying that for the last couple weeks lol