802a won't run from panel but will from inside

[Jerds19]

Hey all, I've recently received an 802a and it won't release the fuel stop solenoid or attempt to crank from the front panel.
If I put the switch on either prime position it runs the corresponding fuel pump.
If I try to start it nothing happens.
Enabling/disabling battle short makes no difference.
I have tried cranking/running while depressing the test button and it has no effect.
I have tried depressing/releasing the emergency shutoff button, it appears to operate normally because it disables pumps when depressed, and allows when out.

However if I manually retract the fuel stop solenoid (and zip tie it in the run position) it still won't crank from the front panel. However if I then use the internal bypass switch it will crank, fire and run just fine. It will produce power, none of the error/warning lights illuminate, I can use it, tune freq and voltage, gauges read good, temp reads reasonable. However if I cut my zip-tie the fuel cut off solenoid returns to closed and kills the motor.

So my ASSUMPTION is that there is a sensor/system that is telling the generator it is NOT ready to start, so it will not power up/retract the fuel stop solenoid and will not allow the starter to engage from the front switch.
My ASSUMPTION is that if it was just the fuel stop solenoid, it would still attempt to crank and physically operating it would enable it to start and run from the front switch.
There is oil and no oil warning light illuminated.
There is fuel and no fuel warning light illuminated.
There is coolant and no temp light illuminated.
All 4 warning lights do illuminate when pressing test button.

Any advice, even if it is a link to a section of a TM for troubleshooting and where to to start would be much appreciated!

This unit has the version 3 switches on it if that makes any difference. I will happily provide any pictures/video if anyone thinks it would help, figured this problem was easier to describe then video

TIA ya'll!
PS: If anyone happens to live in/around the Austin TX area will trade food for hands on knowledge!

 

[Light in the Dark]

The testing procedure for this set can be found in TM 9-6115-641-24, starting with '1. ENGINE FAILS TO CRANK.' (its PDF Page 54). TMs for this set can be found here: https://steelsoldiers.com/threads/tms-for-generators.77624/

It has a good ordered list of items to check sequentially. You know the machine runs so its not mechanically bound... but something in the circuit to start isn't working right. I just fought with a similar problem on an 803 last week and it was the cranking relay (K2)... which is in the ordered list in that TM.

 

[Guyfang]

I think you need to Crack the operators book before you go any farther. You need to understand how all the sub systems work, and how they interact. It also get us and you on the same sheet of music, when you mention a componet.

Hey all, I've recently received an 802a and it won't release the fuel stop solenoid, (L5) or attempt to crank from the front panel. Will the set crank with the S10, (dead Crank switch?)
If I put the switch on either (there is no either prime function on this set) prime position it runs the corresponding fuel pump. (What corresponding fuel pump?)
If I try to start it nothing happens. (By nothing happens, you mean the engine will not turn over)
Enabling/disabling battle short makes no difference. (The engine can not crank over, in Battle short. Thats not what its function is)
I have tried cranking/running while depressing the test button, (Once again, the "test" button has nothing to do with these functions) and it has no effect.
I have tried depressing/releasing the emergency shutoff button, it appears to operate normally because it disables pumps when depressed, and allows when out.

However if I manually retract the fuel stop solenoid (and zip tie it in the run position) it still won't crank from the front panel. (The L5 has nothing to do with the L4, (Starter Solenoid) However if I then use the internal bypass switch, (What is an internal bypass switch?) it will crank, fire and run just fine. It will produce power, none of the error/warning lights illuminate, I can use it, tune freq and voltage, gauges read good, temp reads reasonable. However if I cut my zip-tie the fuel cut off solenoid returns to closed and kills the motor. (There are several functions that will not allow the L5 to be energized.)

So my ASSUMPTION is that there is a sensor/system that is telling the generator it is NOT ready to start, (correct) so it will not power up/retract the fuel stop solenoid (These functions are not one. Two separate functions.) and will not allow the starter to engage from the front switch.
My ASSUMPTION is that if it was just the fuel stop solenoid, it would still attempt to crank (Correct) and physically operating, (Not correct) it would enable it to start and run from the front switch.
There is oil and no oil warning light, (You mean the Low Oil light is not illuminated? It should be lit, as long as the engine is not running. When its not running, there can be no oil pressure) is illuminated. (Oil twice? Not sure what you are talking about.)
There is fuel and no fuel warning light illuminated. Once again, two lights? Not sure what you are talking about. If the no Fuel light is illuminated, that is normally a sign the the K19, (Fuel Level Relay) is tripped, and that the FL1 (Low level fuel switch) has told it to do so. The TM will explain that when this happens, the set will no longer start from the S1, (Start, Run, Stop switch)
There is coolant and no temp light illuminated. (There is not a, "no temp light" There is a light for over temp)
All 4 warning lights do illuminate when pressing test button. (That means the A2, (Fault Indicator) light test switch works.)

Any advice, even if it is a link to a section of a TM for troubleshooting and where to to start would be much appreciated!

This unit has the version 3 switches on it if that makes any difference. I will happily provide any pictures/video if anyone thinks it would help, figured this problem was easier to describe then video

TIA ya'll!
PS: If anyone happens to live in/around the Austin TX area will trade food for hands on knowledge!

 

[Jerds19]

I think you need to Crack the operators book before you go any farther. You need to understand how all the sub systems work, and how they interact. It also get us and you on the same sheet of music, when you mention a componet.

Hey all, I've recently received an 802a and it won't release the fuel stop solenoid, (L5) or attempt to crank from the front panel. Will the set crank with the S10, (dead Crank switch?)
If I put the switch on either (there is no either prime function on this set) prime position it runs the corresponding fuel pump. (What corresponding fuel pump?)
If I try to start it nothing happens. (By nothing happens, you mean the engine will not turn over)
Enabling/disabling battle short makes no difference. (The engine can not crank over, in Battle short. Thats not what its function is)
I have tried cranking/running while depressing the test button, (Once again, the "test" button has nothing to do with these functions) and it has no effect.
I have tried depressing/releasing the emergency shutoff button, it appears to operate normally because it disables pumps when depressed, and allows when out.

However if I manually retract the fuel stop solenoid (and zip tie it in the run position) it still won't crank from the front panel. (The L5 has nothing to do with the L4, (Starter Solenoid) However if I then use the internal bypass switch, (What is an internal bypass switch?) it will crank, fire and run just fine. It will produce power, none of the error/warning lights illuminate, I can use it, tune freq and voltage, gauges read good, temp reads reasonable. However if I cut my zip-tie the fuel cut off solenoid returns to closed and kills the motor. (There are several functions that will not allow the L5 to be energized.)

So my ASSUMPTION is that there is a sensor/system that is telling the generator it is NOT ready to start, (correct) so it will not power up/retract the fuel stop solenoid (These functions are not one. Two separate functions.) and will not allow the starter to engage from the front switch.
My ASSUMPTION is that if it was just the fuel stop solenoid, it would still attempt to crank (Correct) and physically operating, (Not correct) it would enable it to start and run from the front switch.
There is oil and no oil warning light, (You mean the Low Oil light is not illuminated? It should be lit, as long as the engine is not running. When its not running, there can be no oil pressure) is illuminated. (Oil twice? Not sure what you are talking about.)
There is fuel and no fuel warning light illuminated. Once again, two lights? Not sure what you are talking about. If the no Fuel light is illuminated, that is normally a sign the the K19, (Fuel Level Relay) is tripped, and that the FL1 (Low level fuel switch) has told it to do so. The TM will explain that when this happens, the set will no longer start from the S1, (Start, Run, Stop switch)
There is coolant and no temp light illuminated. (There is not a, "no temp light" There is a light for over temp)
All 4 warning lights do illuminate when pressing test button. (That means the A2, (Fault Indicator) light test switch works.)

Any advice, even if it is a link to a section of a TM for troubleshooting and where to to start would be much appreciated!

This unit has the version 3 switches on it if that makes any difference. I will happily provide any pictures/video if anyone thinks it would help, figured this problem was easier to describe then video

TIA ya'll!
PS: If anyone happens to live in/around the Austin TX area will trade food for hands on knowledge!

Hi Guyfang, thanks for taking the time to reply, I feel a bit schooled here, and I definitely know I'm not using the correct terminology, was hoping to get close enough for those of you that know whats going on to understand, while I begin learning more about these units! I have operated them before, but never worked on them more than basic maintenance so I am terminolgically challenged.
When I say "internal switch" I mean the switch inside the generator that I just double checked and it is called a "dead crank switch", which you said is the S10.
Sorry for the confusing wording about the lights, what I was trying to convey when I said "there is oil and no oil warning light is illuminated.", What I meant by that is that the unit physically has oil in it, and there is no light on indicating there is an oil issue. It has fuel in as well, and the "low fuel" light is not illuminating indicating an issue. Same with temp light and "other" light. There are no error lights illuminating to give any indication of what sort of error may exist.

This unit has a "prime and run aux fuel" and "prime and run" setting on it, so I assumed that mean that one was for aux fuel input and one was for internal fuel input, whenever it is in either of those "prime and run" settings the fuel pump runs (I can hear it).

When I move to prime the fuel pump ticks and no error lights illuminate. When I go to start the fuel pump continues to tick and an audible relay "clunk" is heard, the fuel pump continues to pump/tick. When I release it back to prime the fuel pump STOPS pumping, an audible clunk is heard and then the oil light does illuminate. (I just had someone go and double check that function, because you said it should be coming on, and I didn't remember it coming on, but it does.)

Light in the Dark has listed a link and troubleshooting guide, I have been tied up with "work" (sorry for the foul language) all day and havn't had a chance to download his links and start down the troubleshooting flowchart yet, but I WILL.

 

[Jerds19]

The testing procedure for this set can be found in TM 9-6115-641-24, starting with '1. ENGINE FAILS TO CRANK.' (its PDF Page 54). TMs for this set can be found here: https://steelsoldiers.com/threads/tms-for-generators.77624/

It has a good ordered list of items to check sequentially. You know the machine runs so its not mechanically bound... but something in the circuit to start isn't working right. I just fought with a similar problem on an 803 last week and it was the cranking relay (K2)... which is in the ordered list in that TM.

Thank you good sir! I will definitely do exactly as you said! I have quite a bit of electrical/circuit experience so with any luck some general guidance from these documents will put me onto the right components (and their test procedures) to identify the culprit! Thank you much!

 

[Guyfang]

Keep us in the loop. If there is something you dont understand, ask. All the TM's are here in the generator TM forum

 

[Jerds19]

Hey all, it turned out to be the frequency switch! Someone had put a relay in it's place, and not knowing the difference I never suspected. Got a new one on the way!