Anyone Deal With Green Mountain Generators?

[screejunk]

I would stay away from anything from the big box stores, most (all) of the consumer generators sold to the residential market, both portable and stationary on the market today are junk. There are still some good ones in the commercial lines, but these start at around $5,000 - $7,000. If you are going to buy new, buy Kohler, or the better Cummins Onan, and what ever you do stay away from Generac (they spend all their money advertising being the best, not making their generators any good, you also see a lot of them in commercial locations as they are almost always the low bidder, but will cost you a fortune in the long run on support)

Ike

Bob here from Green Mountain Generators. I own this modest company I love this forum and Smokstak as well. I thoroughly respect the opinions of everyone on the forum. GMG has acquired 100's of MEP-002A and MEP-003A units at auction. The reality is that the average cost of a unit (any unit) is going up and up at auction. Why? Because they are excellent products! The unfortunate reality is that units coming from auction are a complete crap-shoot. If you understand diesel generators and dealing with the idiosyncratic process of dealing with GovLiquidations, then buying direct and taking your chances can be a great deal. For the average person, this can be a major headache and expense. The first three expenses that you need to add to the "winning" price that you "win" at auction are: 1) 10% buyers premium paid to Government Liquidations, 2) 5-8% sales tax, 3) shipping costs or general costs associated with picking up and delivering the unit to your desired location. None of this includes the time and energy spent dealing with Government Liquidations and the logistics of getting a unit from the source to your desired location. If you live near a base, then this might not be so bad, but most of us don't. The second wave of costs occur when you receive the unit...all filters, all fluids, etc. Through GMG's experience with 100's of units, we understand the common problems: blown voltage regulators ($399), blown bridge rectifiers ($134), damaged/seized injection pumps ($500-$899), seized fuel pumps ($200), damaged throttle cables (esp. on the MEP002A) ($100+), seized/damaged glow plugs, broken meters, rusted phase selector switch, faulty oil switch, missing brass nuts and tie-downs in the distribution box, broken lights on the control box, bad starters or starter solenoid, bad fuel tanks, bad fuel lines, warn out battery cables, etc. If you are a mechanic and understand diesel engines and the electrical side of generators, then going direct to auction might be a great route -- but you should easily expect to invest up to $1500-$2000 in parts and labor (at a low hourly labor rate of $30). On top of this, GMG conducts a detailed and thorough load-bank test (3 configurations). A thorough load-bank test alone can cost $300. GMG acquires units at auction with a portfolio-approach. Some units are junk and become parts units. Others get refurbed and tested and are 100%. GMG offers all customers a 90 day warranty, 10% off spare parts for life and 5% off future generator purchases (including friends and family). GMG has invested roughly $30,000 in spare parts in the past 2 years. There is not a part we can't replace (new or used) in MEP002A or MEP003A units. We are committed to the long term maintenance of these units. We ensure that you receive a 110% running unit that will provide years of continuous and super-reliable use. And if something bad happens, we can get you the part you need! Remember: always run your units at 60hz (1800 RPM); never warm the units up or down; they must run at 1800 RPMs, which = 60 Hz. We have also obtained (through lots of legal wrangling) approval to export units worldwide. Please feel free to contact GMG and we'll try to answer any questions you might have.

 

[emmado22]

Where are you guys located in Vermont?

 

[screejunk]

Where are you guys located in Vermont?

Our modest HQ is in Halifax, VT on the MA border. Appointment only. We have a few vendors we work with to refurb units, rebuild injection pumps, acquire parts, etc. One of our main partners is Melton Sales & Service in NJ. We also drop-ship from that location. We choose our partners with great care. Melton is tops in it's class. We don't fool around with low-price weekend mechanics, field-fixing, etc. Nothing against weekend mechanics, but I can't build a business on them. All units need a fully functioning indoor, state-of-the-art repair facility with state of the art load banks to properly refurb and test all of our products and parts. All this costs $$, but GMG is focused on offering the very best, reliable and 100% tested product out there. Our refurbished products will beat new junk any day. We aren't really trying to compete directly with the weekend warrior (personally, I am one myself!)...We are really trying to offer an amazing product for a great price. We have recently received approval from 3 US government agencies to export our units globally (except for the Irans and N. Koreas of the world). This process has been brutal. We are beginning to work with relief organizations, NGOs, and other various remote applications (mining, farming, manufacturing). These units are great and many places in the world desperately need electricity, but can't afford to buy a unit like these new.

 

[screejunk]

James,

Bob here from GMG. I respect your opinion. But I need to defend my company and what we do. Your posting here is a fragment and somewhat confusing. We spent a fair amount of time talking on the phone and I truly believe I answered all of your questions. The post here is confusing as your phrase (2) 230 volt, 50 amp, 3-phase needs great clarification on your part (hence why we chatted on the phone). Looking back on this post, I don't understand what the "(2)" means. Does this mean 2 units? The MEP003A units, which I recommended are perfect for 50 amp continuous-use 3-phase applications. I specifically recommended the MEP003A for that application. Not sure how this reply is spurious. Also not sure why the website itself "urges caution." I invest a great deal of time and technology in building the site. We also have one of the longest track records in this niche. I won't comment on the prices as they are what they are. We believe we offer a great product at a great price. I would ask anyone out there to keep track of the hours they invest in getting their units 100%, then add any prices to them, then add shipping costs, etc. etc. Genset mechanics aren't that easy to find and when you find good ones, they aren't minimum wage. Would love to answer any questions anyone has. Thanks, Bob

 

[Triple Jim]

3-phase 50A 208V = 18 KW. Do you really run MEP-003As that hard? Maybe you meant 50A 240V single phase = 12 kW?

 

[screejunk]

3-phase power, AC, assuming MEP003A can output 12.5kW continuously, power factor of .8, leads to 43A. This is very close to 50A. This assumes line voltage of 208v. For any specialized application, knowing the exact application and electrical motor specs would be needed. Most motors can run at 208/240v (but this needs to be confirmed with the specific motor/application). The original post did not have enough information, mainly is the motor to be powered actually 50A continous draw or is this a peak load; also what were the specs of the electric motor.

There are many good calculators online. For example: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/kW_to_Amp_Calculator.htm

For your two examples:

The first would yield 43 amps (assuming MEP003A at 12.5kw and power factor .8, voltage 20 and the 2nd would yield 65 amps (assuming MEP003A at 12.5kw and power factor .8, voltage of 240). Getting the exact specs of the motor to be powered is the key. Understanding peak and steady-state draw is also very important.

 

[Triple Jim]

I was assuming a power factor of 1 for simplicity, and also since the load might be resistive and actually have a power factor of 1. In any case, thanks, you answered my question: You don't push that generator to 50A 208 3 phase.

 

[Isaac-1]

Bob, I do hope you continue to hang around and participate in the group, I think there is room for both the commercial refurbishing enterprise and the casual backyard mechanic. Hopefully this could benefit both sides.

Ike

 

[screejunk]

3-phase power is rarely associated with resistive loads. Usually electric motors are associated with 3-phase power needs and are usually inductive loads, so power factor is critical in calculating requirements. I think your conclusion is wrong. You can easily push these units to 40+ amps at 208 volts/three phase...If the draw was 50 amps, probably not, is sustained over multiple minutes, but spiking to that is potential with these units (e.g. when a motor powers on for a second or two).

 

[screejunk]

Oh, I forgot one critical thing. The master breaker in the Distribution Box. This breaker is the true limiting agent in the MEP002A or MEP003A units. It can easily handle a 50 amp continuous draw, so the system will allow a 50 amp load on the system. These units can easily manage a 133% rated load over long intervals (measured in hours). It can also easily handle much higher loads for short intervals measured in minutes. The breaker will trip based on load and time, not simply on load. They are very durable. I have seen bad ones, but usually due to contamination by water ruining the components or UV damage if the unit was left in sunlight and the housing breaks down. Even though these units are weather proof, covering them is recommended to minimize any chance of water or UV damage ($5 tarp is a good investment).

 

[edgephoto]

James,

Bob here from GMG. I respect your opinion. But I need to defend my company and what we do. Your posting here is a fragment and somewhat confusing. We spent a fair amount of time talking on the phone and I truly believe I answered all of your questions. The post here is confusing as your phrase (2) 230 volt, 50 amp, 3-phase needs great clarification on your part (hence why we chatted on the phone). Looking back on this post, I don't understand what the "(2)" means. Does this mean 2 units? The MEP003A units, which I recommended are perfect for 50 amp continuous-use 3-phase applications. I specifically recommended the MEP003A for that application. Not sure how this reply is spurious. Also not sure why the website itself "urges caution." I invest a great deal of time and technology in building the site. We also have one of the longest track records in this niche. I won't comment on the prices as they are what they are. We believe we offer a great product at a great price. I would ask anyone out there to keep track of the hours they invest in getting their units 100%, then add any prices to them, then add shipping costs, etc. etc. Genset mechanics aren't that easy to find and when you find good ones, they aren't minimum wage. Would love to answer any questions anyone has. Thanks, Bob

Bob welcome aboard. I am glad you have joined this forum. I chose the path of buying a genset at auction. I took my chances. I never do understand when people compare a business to what they can do as a DIY. I used to own my own auto repair shop. I would get people say to me "wow I can do it cheaper by myself" and they meant it. It baffles me why someone would think a business doing the work would be the same money as shopping for the lowest price and doing the labor themselves. I even had one customer ask me "do you make money on parts" to which I replied "of course". His response to me was " I thought so", like he had discovered the theory of relativity.

If my generator dies or breaks on me I can only be mad at myself. I would have to repair it on my dime. If I bought one from you and it broke then you would be repairing at your expense. This peace of mind costs money. All the work you do to insure you have a product that ships in the best condition takes time and parts. Both of which cost money. Just getting these things lately cost much more than they did a few years ago. Parts are not cheap. Skilled labor is not free either.

Please continue to participate in this forum. There are plenty of people who understand your business and the products you sell.

 

[ETN550]

Hi GMG,

Three phase heaters are very common in the 10kw+ size. They are often used as spot heat for construction or temporary service. Youtube has a video of a New Hampshire guy 100% step loading a 003 with a typical 13.5kw three phase resistive heater. It does step load quite nicely. Any search for a 10kw plus electric heater will yeild many three phase options. Common load banking is normally resistive and the standard to which we judge the specs. So resistive (PF=1.0) is widely assumed and used for comparisons. Continueous PF of 0.8 is pretty rare. The pure motor loads I have measured are around .9 - .92 for A/C compressors and single phase. Is 3 phase worse, typically?

 

[screejunk]

Never said that 3 phase heaters didn't exist! Part of this original thread related to a 3 phase tool with motor where PF is important to take into consideration...FYI, you can find *anything* on the web The MEP002A and MEP003A are rated at a power factor of .8.

 

[1800 Diesel]

I have been checking the classifieds and no luck so far.

Mike,

Send me a pm if you get a chance.

 

[edgephoto]

? Is that phone number?

No it means private message. If you click on the user's name you will see the choice.

 

[screejunk]

Agreed. Do not oversize your generator as you will simply burn too much fuel and run out of gas on day 1 of a 5 day outage...An aux fuel supply is key.

Never dealt with them, but at those prices you could spin the GL wheel 2 or 3 times

Thinking of maybe skipping the whole GL lottery and picking up a refurbed unit from GMG. Only issue is the $5K price tag for a MEP-003A. So I am wondering if anyone has dealt with them? Is the premium that you pay worth it in the mechanical and electrical condition of the machine?

Thanks,

Mike

CT-Mike,
Don't buy too much capability. You will only waste fuel and, perhaps damage the unit if you can't load it sufficiently. 003a is great as is 002a. Both have more capability than is obvious. Take a realistic look at your true power needs and go from there.
Jerry

 

[screejunk]

What is Gentac? Generac? Here is the Costco product I believe you are referring to: http://www.costco.com/Generac-17,50...ric-Start-and-20’-Cord.product.100170777.html

This is a max rating of 17,500! If you tried to run this unit anywhere near that for 30 minutes, it would fry! Civi units always market their PEAK wattage rating. This is a useless figure except for perhaps for a few seconds to allow a big pump or electric motor to turn on. This unit is gas (terrible for fuel storage), 3600 rpm (MEP003A and MEP002A are 1800 rpm).

Our customers can run our units for 24/7 for 2 weeks to run a sugaring vacuum pump off a 55 gallon drum. There is no way this little Generac can do this for 12 hours...They mandate a shutdown every 10 hours!

It is a good generator for what it is, but this will not be reliable for a week power outage...This can run for a few hours to 10 hours at a time before needing to shut down to let it cool and change the oil once a day. Simply and apples and oranges comparison.

 

[Warthog]

Selling items in the open forums is a BIG no-no. Also you need to contact the site admin about becoming a Vendor.

 

[Ray70]

CT-Mike, Depending on your final decision, I'm in RI and have 3 MEP-002A's that are fully tested and running perfectly. I don't really need 3 of them and have been considering selling one, if you have any interest you can PM me for details.

 

[CDR]

Bob welcome aboard. I am glad you have joined this forum. I chose the path of buying a genset at auction. I took my chances. I never do understand when people compare a business to what they can do as a DIY. I used to own my own auto repair shop. I would get people say to me "wow I can do it cheaper by myself" and they meant it. It baffles me why someone would think a business doing the work would be the same money as shopping for the lowest price and doing the labor themselves. I even had one customer ask me "do you make money on parts" to which I replied "of course". His response to me was " I thought so", like he had discovered the theory of relativity.

If my generator dies or breaks on me I can only be mad at myself. I would have to repair it on my dime. If I bought one from you and it broke then you would be repairing at your expense. This peace of mind costs money. All the work you do to insure you have a product that ships in the best condition takes time and parts. Both of which cost money. Just getting these things lately cost much more than they did a few years ago. Parts are not cheap. Skilled labor is not free either.

Please continue to participate in this forum. There are plenty of people who understand your business and the products you sell.

Thanks for coming on the board Bob. I have seen your products and they are great high-quality. If you want to MEP and don't want to work on one and don't want to get screwed on auction Bob is the way to go. With that being said mEP's are a hobby. For the money if you're not looking for a military generator to play with you are much better going to hardy diesel and buying something brand new with auto start quiet and all other fancy features.