AVM vs Ouverson: take a closer look!

[gringeltaube]

Gringeltaube,

You mention AVM part 443 in one of your post's. That is the correct part # that John Tennis sells for the 2 1/2 ton axle.

You are showing in one of your pics an AVM box with part # 4 465 on the end. Are you actually comparing the correct #443 AVM hub with Ouverson's?

No, I wrote #434, which is the correct part number for the M35 hub.

Forget about that other number. That was just the box the second set of #434s came in.
I bought and received 4 identical hubs (two sets) and those are the ones showed in the pics!

G.

 

[emr]

I love this stuff, Great Job!!I truly believe and may be wrong that the hub should be the weak link in a tough situation, I think the comparison is well done and informative, Knowing this I would have to research further before making a selection, I like heavier stuff, but thats just me, alot feel if its enough its good enough, and that can be true for me too at times depending on alot, But i like knowing the difference before buying, so when it hits the fan i can think to myself, well i thought about it first, then the pain is not so bad if i made a poor decision,funny I would buy something from John even if i thought i could get better, I just like Him, but then again if I was really going to ruff up the truck alot I would go as heavy as I could...Oh, great post again...Randy

 

[dabtl]

This is not product disparagement; it is fair and objective benchmarking. In my industry, we do it every chance we get. You can bet that our customers do, too.

Benchmarking generally involves standardized tests as opposed to gee whiz comparisons. What began as a gee whiz comparison became disparagement in the follow up post.

Everyone should just trust their own judgment at this point as there are no test results, only pics and gee whiz look at this comments.

 

[JasonS]

This is not product disparagement; it is fair and objective benchmarking. In my industry, we do it every chance we get. You can bet that our customers do, too.

Benchmarking generally involves standardized tests as opposed to gee whiz comparisons. What began as a gee whiz comparison became disparagement in the follow up post.

Everyone should just trust their own judgment at this point as there are no test results, only pics and gee whiz look at this comments.

I understand that. This is not a performance characterization. It is doubtful that many have the real abilities to do that. However, benchmarking does include construction analysis; this being more of an overview. My interpretation of your posts was that you see no value whatsoever by the teardown. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[gringeltaube]

.......I thought gringeltaube said the Ouverson hubs he examined were steel castings? Are there two kinds of Ouverson hubs?

No Sir, see 3rd pic.! AVM is Fe, Ouversons is Al.
Yes Sir, Ouverson makes std. cast aluminium and HD forged aluminium bodies for their hubs.

G.

 

[m376x6]

Interesting, aluminum versus steel, now the massive amount of metal in the Overson's is understood. Does anybody know of, or have heard anything about anyone stressing either brand to failure either intentionally or by accident? Aluminum is susceptable to metal fatique over repeated stress exposure considerably more than steel. The bushing as opposed to a bearing is not that important in my experience because of the low rpm and load bearing of the assembly during Free operation. I have had hubs that went for years and never impacted the bushing. I did have a set of Dualmatics that were aluminum and were pretty much junk, they reached their stress limit and didn't just crack, they exploded in complete failure. Over the course of their life they wallowed and cracked in various places. Hopefuly the aluminum in these Oversons is a better grade. Oh well, all academic, experience under use is what is needed here. Wonderful thread. Thanks everyone.

Regards,
Bryan

 

[54reo]

FYI...FE=Iron. In this case, cast. (I believe gringeltaube mentions that in the pic captions.)

I don't know where the steel thing comes in at.

 

[Elwenil]

One thing that is important to remember is that the Ouversons are not a stock replacement hub. They are made for the rock crawling crowd who regularly break stock 2.5 ton Rockwell shafts. They are plenty tough and probabaly see more abuse in one rock crawling outing than they will see in a lifetime on the average Deuce.

 

[dabtl]

This is not product disparagement; it is fair and objective benchmarking. In my industry, we do it every chance we get. You can bet that our customers do, too.

Benchmarking generally involves standardized tests as opposed to gee whiz comparisons. What began as a gee whiz comparison became disparagement in the follow up post.

Everyone should just trust their own judgment at this point as there are no test results, only pics and gee whiz look at this comments.

I understand that. This is not a performance characterization. It is doubtful that many have the real abilities to do that. However, benchmarking does include construction analysis; this being more of an overview. My interpretation of your posts was that you see no value whatsoever by the teardown. We will have to agree to disagree.

I found the tear down interesting, but inconclusive. I am no engineer and neither unit has been compared under stress. I find the Ouverson unit interesting as well as the AVM. But, the question still remains, how much makes a difference?

You may be more impressed with the 'seeology' than the geology, as we say in Texas, but then everyone has decisions to make when buying any product.

 

[Recovry4x4]

So if they are both the exact same price and there is no conclusive testing, what should sway ones decision to one or the other?

 

[sprucemt]

Well Kenny, the first thing I would do is check to see if Ouverson's is offering free shipping. If they do not, then I would say that they are not the exact same price. I then would do a search on Google or Yahoo and check the rockcrawler and mudboggers forums for the opinions offered by them. Where lockout hubs are reletively new in our hobby, rockcrawlers and mudboggers have seen extensive use in their field.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

www.pirate4x4.com should give some good answers.

Anyone who wants to post in the forums should definitely bring their flame retardant suit though.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

May 18th, 2008.

Gentlemen:

While I haven't got a dog in this fight, so to speak, here are my uninformed (other then the photographs above) comments. It would seem that heavier gears, bearings and lock mechanisms might be a very good thing, when applied to the Duece. While the non turbo units like mine only have about 140 HP to divide up 6 ways, that's still about 23.5 HP per wheel, but the questions is, as the rest of the truck was generally overengineered by Uncle Sam, it might pay us to do like wise. How many 37+ year old Civillian medium duty trucks are out there still doing their jobs....
I had a 1989 Ford F250 with the Warn lockers with the plasticv dial, one went 19 years and is still going, one went 10 years and went Kaput, and that truck generally was carrying 2 tons of rock and now and then switching a 46,000 Lb steel caboose around the yards..... It's still running back in West Virginia, though it looks about like all its other twenty year old working sisters....
As regards the Deuce, I have given some thought to fitting her with front lockers and one (or would both be better) on the No.3 axle for highway use... while the savings on fuel won't be too great, I suspect the savings in wear and tear on the drive train might add up over a long life....
Thanks again, for the intellectual insights into these germaine questions,

I remain,
Most Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" Desert Storm and Vietnam Veteran Deuce,686A Tan-daily runner.
M105A2 Johnsom Mfg Co. cargo trailer
MEP23A Hercules Gas Generator Set
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Unimog S404.114, Mercedes Benz


NB: Above item corrected to stay on the original subject, Sorry for the digression.

Regards,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[gimpyrobb]

Kyle, you can add a turbo to your non turbo truck, thats what alot of people have done. A search may produce the wanted results.

 

[HeadWizard]

Still waiting for a reply from JT, and from Ouversons on this thread.

Ouversons = cast aluminum body, part #deucecastedlockout, $595 + frt. Couldn't find a price or description for the more expensive hub.

AVM = nodular iron body, part #434, $595 delivered

I like the 4x4 on the AVM, but then again, I'm putting them on my bobbed deuce

I'll post install pics and provide feedback when I finally get around to installing the AVM's I got at Aberdeen.

John's service is very good and he's very fair (not to say Ouverson's is not).

Time will tell.

I suppose I could put Ouversons on the rear ..... no wait, then I wouldn't go anywhere

Don

 

[Bigmillman]

I have a cousin out west that uses Ouverson's on his rock crawler and swears by them. He butts one front tire up to a boulder the size of his own truck and just stands on the power untill it shreds its way on top. He says that he breaks axle shafts doing this from time to time but never his Ouverson's. He is using Chrome-moly shafts too!
I don't own them yet.. But I do like the made in USA!! They look like buying a Harley to buying a rice burner. They both work, but I like keeping the jobs here while we still have a few.

 

[sprucemt]

HeadWizard,
As of 8pm last night, John Tennis was still moving trucks left over from the show this past weekend. Still had two more loads of trucks to move today. You may hear from him tonite or could be tomorrow.

Remember folks, Having a choice is what the US is all about.

 

[JasonS]

This is not product disparagement; it is fair and objective benchmarking. In my industry, we do it every chance we get. You can bet that our customers do, too.

Benchmarking generally involves standardized tests as opposed to gee whiz comparisons. What began as a gee whiz comparison became disparagement in the follow up post.

Everyone should just trust their own judgment at this point as there are no test results, only pics and gee whiz look at this comments.

I understand that. This is not a performance characterization. It is doubtful that many have the real abilities to do that. However, benchmarking does include construction analysis; this being more of an overview. My interpretation of your posts was that you see no value whatsoever by the teardown. We will have to agree to disagree.

I found the tear down interesting, but inconclusive. I am no engineer and neither unit has been compared under stress. I find the Ouverson unit interesting as well as the AVM. But, the question still remains, how much makes a difference?

You may be more impressed with the 'seeology' than the geology, as we say in Texas, but then everyone has decisions to make when buying any product.

Well, I am an engineer and reasonable inferences can be made by inspection; IF you know what you are looking at. As an example, I (or anyone else knowledgeable in the industry) can de-lid a competitor's unit, read the part number off of the IC and know what characteristics the unit posses. There will be minor differences due to other components and construction techniques but overall characteristics will be known. Even if I haven't characterized THAT particular competitor's design, I can still know what to expect just by the topology used in their design.

The analysis of the hubs need not be that clouded.

 

[SrIrie]

I have never seen the inside of a AVM hub (until now) but I have put many of O.E.M. products on many of different vehicles (including my own M35) from mild to wild 4X4’s from hubs to axles, disk brake kits probley just about everything they make at one time or another and have seen them take more abuse than I think you can put one through in a MV. Not only is the materials used and workmanship top shelf but they stand behind there products better than most companies I have dealt with over the years in the 4X4 industry. Oh and there all US made.

I personally would not buy from anyone else even if they where half the cost.
My

 

[Offroadfabworks]

well ill put my in this. As i can sell and do sell all 3 brands. anyone using high horsepower and such on there rig is going strictly with Ouverson as that its just there preference. and i have looked and used all 3 brands. i would personally rate them at the Ouverson being the best over all of them. Frt aint that much they are a small package. but im not trying to get into a debate or start a war. but i would go with Ouversons first, but thats why there is a market out there and there is this many companies. they all are doing there thing and selling a product.