AWD and Slip

[coachgeo]

for stuck.... here is a non anchor potential solution

chain up axle. Jack it up with tires above earth as much as you can. Jack placed in a way you dont care if it falls off jack. Use winch to pull that end sideways with goal of when it falls off jack that tires ends up a good bit to one side of the ruts it was in. This is where maybe two or three "farmers jacks" could come in handy. they fall sideways easy anyway lol. Might not even need a winch. could just push it to one side ararar. May have to repeat a few times to get that end moved over to one side. Maybe additional time to jack up again and put stuff under the wheels if you want to lesson chance of tires digging down again in its new spot it sits ."

 

[chucky]

Im not sure how to explain what my vision is here other than think of say a record album being put back in its cardboard cover sleve ! Im saying dig a say 20 in deep narrow as possible slit in the ground flat face side facing stuck truck ! Maybe 2 of thema few feet apart that you could push the disc /eyelet of chocker cable staight down with pipe thru it to where nothing sticks above the ground ! Now take the 2 ends of the 2 chockers left above ground and pull them to meet each other so your winch hook picks up both now you see the path that needs to be trenched do basically sink 8 or 10 in so to make for a staight line pull back to the winch ! So as long as the chocker cable is pulling straight and the line ditch deep enough i see no way for the disc to walk up out of its slot in the ground plus the disc im talking about have an offset in the center so your pointing the cup of the disc towards the winch which should help even more to secure the disc in one spot ! HOPE THIS MAKES SENCE !

 

[Third From Texas]

Pull pal sells an oversized military version. So yes, they go by load capacity.


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Yeah, the military Pull Pal is rated to 12k pull for up to 10k GVW and they make a industrial 14k version for up to 12k GVW. I suspect the limits are structural (ie where the anchor disassembles itself). So GWV + resistance (mud, sand, etc).

Personally, I'm more a fan of the one-piece solutions.

I just figure that when he time comes, I want big, heavy, cumbersome recovery tools (the tow bar on my truck is quite a step up from my VW tow bar).

But until I get a winch, I'm just an observer when it comes to winching out these trucks (unless I'm the anchor).

 

[chucky]

Im thinking one of the coolest things ive seen the last few days is to take one of our wheels and bore 6 of the 10 stud holes out big enough to slip over the existing wheel studs on steer axle and unbolt 4 studs opisit from each other and bolt this wheel to the one on the truck with a notch sut in it some where to hook the end of some winch cable and a few loops around the wheel then onto where your tie off to and put the truck in 1st gear and now your drivetrain is the winch

 

[Ronmar]

for stuck.... here is a non anchor potential solution

chain up axle. Jack it up with tires above earth as much as you can. Jack placed in a way you dont care if it falls off jack. Use winch to pull that end sideways with goal of when it falls off jack that tires ends up a good bit to one side of the ruts it was in. This is where maybe two or three "farmers jacks" could come in handy. they fall sideways easy anyway lol. Might not even need a winch. could just push it to one side ararar. May have to repeat a few times to get that end moved over to one side. Maybe additional time to jack up again and put stuff under the wheels if you want to lesson chance of tires digging down again in its new spot it sits ."

The problem with jacking is it can take a pretty large sole plate(several sq/ft) to keep the jack from sinking/provide any meaningfull lift. Then there is getting to a suitable jack point while the truck is belly deep, same with chaining up a buried axle...

 

[Ronmar]

Im not sure how to explain what my vision is here other than think of say a record album being put back in its cardboard cover sleve ! Im saying dig a say 20 in deep narrow as possible slit in the ground flat face side facing stuck truck ! Maybe 2 of thema few feet apart that you could push the disc /eyelet of chocker cable staight down with pipe thru it to where nothing sticks above the ground ! Now take the 2 ends of the 2 chockers left above ground and pull them to meet each other so your winch hook picks up both now you see the path that needs to be trenched do basically sink 8 or 10 in so to make for a staight line pull back to the winch ! So as long as the chocker cable is pulling straight and the line ditch deep enough i see no way for the disc to walk up out of its slot in the ground plus the disc im talking about have an offset in the center so your pointing the cup of the disc towards the winch which should help even more to secure the disc in one spot ! HOPE THIS MAKES SENCE !

Force/energy tends to take the path of least resistance. There is less earth pressure/resistance above the disc center than below when pulling it horizontal, as the upper earth has only its weight/air to push against(its more fluid than solid).

So the soil on top will push upward, and provide less resistance than the soil below(Same way a plow blade lifts amd rolls the soil). Without a lever to maintain the disc angle relative to the pull angle, the disc will lift soil on top and tilt toward the pull force. Now how long this takes is a question, but you are describing a fair ammount of digging just to get setup...

Thats why the fixed dig angle anchors are effective, they lift soil at first, but their angle keeps them going ever deeper, increasing the resistance they encounter.

 

[Ronmar]

View attachment 912250

I think the "bush-winch" methodology has a lot of potential for our vehicles as it also provides a type of traction control with the wheel that wants to slip putting more load on the winch line and transfering more drive torque to the wheel that is not slipping...

 

[Third From Texas]

Im thinking one of the coolest things ive seen the last few days is to take one of our wheels and bore 6 of the 10 stud holes out big enough to slip over the existing wheel studs on steer axle and unbolt 4 studs opisit from each other and bolt this wheel to the one on the truck with a notch sut in it some where to hook the end of some winch cable and a few loops around the wheel then onto where your tie off to and put the truck in 1st gear and now your drivetrain is the winch View attachment 912250

Make it a CTIS cover also and $$$$$$$$$$$$

LOL

 

[Wingnut13]

I recall watching an old video, like WWI style where the subject was unstucking a truck with a winch. The anchor they used was brilliantly simple to me. It was a chain rated for the pull it was laid on the ground and every few links they drove a stake through the chain probably 4’ deep or so. They used a bunch of stakes, depending on how much pull they needed. A few chains and blocking were used.

It was a relatively light and easy to pack system. I’m still looking for a chain.

 

[Ronmar]

I recall watching an old video, like WWI style where the subject was unstucking a truck with a winch. The anchor they used was brilliantly simple to me. It was a chain rated for the pull it was laid on the ground and every few links they drove a stake through the chain probably 4’ deep or so. They used a bunch of stakes, depending on how much pull they needed. A few chains and blocking were used.

It was a relatively light and easy to pack system. I’m still looking for a chain.

I have seen something similar used in search and rescue. The hard part might be pulling the stakes out when you are done…

 

[coachgeo]

The problem with jacking is it can take a pretty large sole plate(several sq/ft) to keep the jack from sinking/provide any meaningfull lift. Then there is getting to a suitable jack point while the truck is belly deep, same with chaining up a buried axle...

plan ahead.... build jack points in... dont bury yourself that much.... and/ orrrrrrr... plan on digging. understand the cribbing/foot print issue.

Guess this adds another advantage to the idea of putting small 1k? winches at each axle corner on chassis to pull axle up with.. then all that is left is for chain or limit strap; your pre planning hung there for such wonderful situations, to be jockeyed into place with a stick. Yeah royal PITA..... but all the solutions are royal PITA.

 

[Ronmar]

Having had to do my share of extracting stuck vehicles, I have found I would prefer to not dig, roll around in the mud or crawl in or under vehicles mired in the muck. The problem with cribbing and jacking is it needs to remain perpendicular to the lines of force. Now simple is not always ideal for every situation, but I find schemes with less to go wrong typically don’t…

I think that something like bush-winch spools have an advantage here, being simple, distributing the pull force, and helping improve wheel traction control by applying more load to wheels that spin. A 24” capstan(1’ radius) would basically deliver a pull force equivalent to the axle torque. On my A0, that would be ~12,800 lb(6400lb with eco-hubs). Now even with eco-hubs, thats 25.6K total pull forward(less pull in reverse) but divided 4 ways. A 20” capstan would deliver 15.4/7.7K per wheel

That means small 10K rated lines, and small anchors. The ground grabber has a folding versions in 3.5 and 5 ton. 3.5-4’ long X 12-14” X ~2” thick when folded. I may even be able to improve on those dimensions. At that size it wouldn't be that hard to carry 4 or 5 of these, 24-28lb each. Not horribly heavy to deploy, dig in the anchor point, run a line to a wheel capstan, take a few turns and secure it.

A 24K winch is a great thing, but it requires 24k or more of anchor to be fully effective. Now you could(and may have to) chain a few smaller ground anchors together to get there…

 

[coachgeo]

Having had to do my share of extracting stuck vehicles, I have found I would prefer to not dig, roll around in the mud or crawl in or under vehicles mired in the muck. The problem with cribbing and jacking is it needs to remain perpendicular to the lines of force. Now simple is not always ideal for every situation, but I find schemes with less to go wrong typically don’t…

I think that something like bush-winch spools have an advantage here, ...

my 24v winch(s) are 18k. My concern with bush-winch is that all the stuff that holds axle in place.... and wheels in place etc....are really not made for forces being tugged that way. Maybe its not a sound concern though.

 

[hike]

I like the danforth anchor style. Flat stowage, self setting, easy removal—

 

[Ronmar]

my 24v winch(s) are 18k. My concern with bush-winch is that all the stuff that holds axle in place.... and wheels in place etc....are really not made for forces being tugged that way. Maybe its not a sound concern though.

Well if they are not designed for it, we are in trouble, as the stock A0 is capable of 6600LB of thrust per wheel at the tire, or 26,400lb of total pull from the tires…
The vehicles themselves can weigh far more than 26,400lb, all supported by the exact same hardware exposed to driving suspension/shock loading Increases

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Yeah, saw this on FB today and that old spark lit up thinking about this thread.

View attachment 912054

Looks like a fun day in PA. I've had good luck with just chaining up the rears on my A1 for heavy snow conditions, churns thru it. Lockers great for snow too. Mud not so much. My 430 cat backhoe with full chains and a farm locker will just sit and spin in mud even only 2" deep. It's nice to Read Lots of great techniques on here for traction and unstucking, which is good bc I'm not aware of a vehicle ever made since Moses that mother Mud cannot defeat.

 

[CONJIN]

No, too many other things I want to get done. Still need to figure out wheel speed Sensors…

Just paying devils advocate here:
Couldn't you use a hall effect speed sensor and a couple of small magnets glued to the wheel for a simple and cheap solution?

 

[Mullaney]

Just paying devils advocate here:
Couldn't you use a hall effect speed sensor and a couple of small magnets glued to the wheel for a simple and cheap solution?

View attachment 912695

.
Well... I can't imagine that the government wouldn't spend $5 bucks a wheel to allow the wheels to sync up. On the other hand - what is going to want to drive the wheels at "X" speed?

 

[Ronmar]

Just paying devils advocate here:
Couldn't you use a hall effect speed sensor and a couple of small magnets glued to the wheel for a simple and cheap solution?

yep, but it also needs to survive being drug and spun thru the mud. Thats the trickey part… i have the other parts worked out in my head, just not a wheel speed sensor that is surviveable…

 

[ramdough]

yep, but it also needs to survive being drug and spun thru the mud. Thats the trickey part… i have the other parts worked out in my head, just not a wheel speed sensor that is surviveable…

Do the A0’s have the abs sensor locations for whatever sensor the A1’s use? Some times the castings are the same, but one has a hole for the abs sensor.


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