Changing caster angle solved problems with G-177 tires

[sandcobra164]

GringleTaube method adds Positive Caster, think bicycle steering fork. Negative Caster, think grocery cart. I've seen firsthand that G's Method works as I've done it to my truck and it drives much easier now. 1 hand to hold it straight down the road versus fighting it with two and darting left and right.

 

[Kohburn]

oh negative castor will also center the wheel and it reduces steering effort. and yes you have the idea of positive vs negative right. the better method to think of it is that the angle of the kingpin will point at the ground in front of the center of the wheel if the caster is positive and behind if negative. Negative was the norm pre-1970 and positive became the norm as power steering became more common. Positive can increase steering effort especially with higher caster angles, wide tires and high scrub radius.

had to go dig up the diagram, i was going from memory. looks like it induces enough positive to be effective for manual steering. The flip is likely more ideal with power steering.

 

[michigandon]

Don't forget that each deuce is a little different. What works well on one might not on another. There's no rhyme or reason, it's just that way. Aswayze's deuce steers like it has power steering almost

Final Verdict: the gringletaube mod in conjunction with a 2 degree caster shim ended up being the magic bullet for my truck. Drives better now than it ever has!

Like the post above says though YMMV.

 

[peashooter]

Final Verdict: the gringletaube mod in conjunction with a 2 degree caster shim ended up being the magic bullet for my truck. Drives better now than it ever has!

Like the post above says though YMMV.

So if Im reading this right, you did the Gringletaube mod which removes about 2.5 degrees from the 4.4 degree angled spring perch, and you put a 2 degree shim in.... so basically your spring perch/seats are flat or "0" degree now right? And your caster would probably be +6 degree?
Thanks for taking the time to post feedback on the results of the caster mod that worked best for you!

 

[Merc1973]

This is a great thread for when i upgrade to some G177s.

As we know Caster and Pinion angle are directly related. Does this change in Caster fall within specs of a normal pinion angle? If the pinion angle is too much, your u-joints will not be happy. Is it correct to assume the front driveshaft on an M35 is a single/single Cardan style? A double/double can handle extreme pinion angles.

 

[Aswayze]

Just quick follow up on how mine worked out in the end.

I altered my front end by adding in 1/4 of shim on the back of the spring perch to get just a tad more caster, I measured it as a total caster of 4 degrees.

I can report now several years down the road that it worked like a charm. Tires are not wearing uneven, truck still drives straight as an arrow and everything is lovely. Staggenborg liked the results enough that he went and got a set of G177s for his deuce as well.

Wear wise, I have put a little over 10,000 miles on my truck since I got the G177s and they show VERY little wear at all. I drive offroad in a very rocky place and so far have not yet had a chunk knocked out of them which is exactly as big of a deal since that used to cost me both front tires basically once a year after 9 days of running around off road at East Wind.

The biggest surprise and the thing I most notice when I hop back in an NDCC equipped truck for a drive is the noise. The radial tires make a lot less noise at highway speeds. I can actually have a conversation in the cab of my truck when running 55 down the highway now.

 

[tobyS]

Aswayze, can you make a drawing to compare what you are doing to what peashooter has drawn? I don't even have a deuce and find it interesting. The looks of the G177 on the deuce are great proportionally. I have 5 ton's and wonder how much of this applies to their road handling?

 

[MWMULES]

Aswayze, can you make a drawing to compare what you are doing to what peashooter has drawn? I don't even have a deuce and find it interesting. The looks of the G177 on the deuce are great proportionally. I have 5 ton's and wonder how much of this applies to their road handling?

They really need no adjustments when put on a 5T. My 818 was a rough rider bob tailed and mine came from the military with radials on the front and NDCC's on the back. When I changed it over to all G177's the ride was greatly improved and tire noise was also reduced.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

So let me get this straight..... you guys are jacking the truck up, taking the shim out flipping the perch 180*, re drilling the pin hole and bolting it all back together? Does any one have pictures of their finished shim before installation?

 

[MWMULES]

Not every one and a few of us out here did it this way, see #19 #21
#25

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Ok he talks about a 1/4" shim..... is that a wedge shim or a flat shim?

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

I have read the entire thread but no one really posted pictures of the finished result. I could make a 1/4" flat shim very easily. I could also make a 1/4" wedge shim as well. But I think I'd rather take the stock perch and measure mark and grind out what is needed to make it right.

 

[tobyS]

That's why I was hoping for a drawing...to see a comparison to MWMULES method of material removal. It appears to remove material that changes 2 degree.

Does it end up at the same angle with a shim? It must be close. What I don't understand is turning them around...that seems too much.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yes I agree turning them around does seem to much. I also don't understand some pictures have the locator pin centered and others do not. I want to keep it simple and just remove material from the original perch. When I get my truck in two weeks I'll put a magnetic degree finder on the front on my level shop floor and get a reading of what it is at factory. Then remove the material and measure again or possibly just do it all at work and let everyone know what to take off roughly.

 

[peashooter]

There are different spring perches out there as well. Some have about a 4 degree taper and some (less common) are more like 8 degrees.

 

[rutledge1113]

I just recently bob my deuce went with the G177 s it wandered from one side of the road to the other and steering wheel didnt return to center turned my front spacers around like it shows and deuce drives like it did before the G177 s so dont even think twice about it just get r done oyea it is a pain in the but relocating line up hples on shim when you do this it took me about 6 hours and lots of cold beer

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

So you just flipped them? No grinding? Just re drilled the locater pin hole?

 

[tobyS]

Rutledge1113, now is the time to learn to post pictures so we can see the angle, please. You can upload a few into a file and then add them to a post. If you have problems, we can find a way to help. Nice looking truck by the way.

Dan, If it were a 4 degree, that would be an 8 change. Hard to argue with success however. Removal of material or adding a TAPERED (1/4" to 1"16) shim would go around 2.5 degree.

In my prior days, I might have cut a spring with a torch and ground it. Yes I cut the locator hole with a torch. Now I'd use cold rolled and have it milled. Removal of material may not matter for strength...or it may. Adding a shim adds a small amount of height, but retains full strength.

 

[rutledge1113]

yes took them out turned them 180 degrees when you do that the axel line up hole wont sit down over pin because it is not in the center of the perch it is off set so I marked it best I could I did use an over sized bit because the shim sits at an angle so your hole does too bolt it back up and it will not wander and the steering wheel returns to center I just done this two weeks ago

 

[rutledge1113]

i wish i had taken some but it was a pain in the rear to get everything apart it I DOUBT IF MINE HAD EVER BEEN APART SINCE IT WAS BUILT and the hole not lining up kinda through me off i didn't know that until i got into it and what i thought was going to take me a couple of hours took almost allday but i was very happy when i drove the deuce after