Compliance with DOT???

[NDT]

After much research, I think I have found the magic clause in the federal law that can exempt the heavy trucks (26,001+ lbs GVW) from compliance with DOT. I would like to get ya'lls opinion. I want ZERO problems at scales, random DOT compliance checks, etc . . . My area is CRAWLING with Commercial Vehicle Enforcement units.

49 CFR 390.3 Exceptions

The rules in subchapter B (the entire Motor Carrier Safety Act) do not apply to "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of commercial enterprise".

This means no USDOT number, no medical card, no drug screen, no log book, etc, just to drive my 5 ton to the Wal Mart . . .

Can anyone that is highly experienced with DOT and FMCSA confirm this??

 

[Nonotagain]

Here goes.

From the Texas department of public safety.

TRANSPORTATION CODE  CHAPTER 521. DRIVER'S LICENSES AND CERTIFICATES


Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.




Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:
(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or
(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and
(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.
(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.

Chapter 522 covers commercial drivers licenses.

Transportation Code

As long as you are not engaged in a for hire operation, you are considered non-commercial.

 

[papabear]

Thats correct Nonotagain sorta. And that is the Fed Standard.
Everything you said is good...but Georgia has a clause...as long as you can PROVE - that what you are driving/hauling/towing is YOURS...it's OK.

If you are "helping a buddy out" that won't fly. That's a commercial venture. There are no "free" tows/hauls in GA. (That's if the officer wants to push the issue) most won't

This comes from a very good friend and a member of our group...who also is a Motor Carrier Compliance Division (MCCD) Officer for the State of Georgia. That has helped on occassion...LOL

 

[MyothersanM1]

In California anything over 6000lbs gross having three (3) axles requires a commercial Class B which includes the medical card.

Ref. CVC12804.9(b)(2) and California Commercial Driver Handbook 2009 (pg. 1). These sections are for operators licensing only and do not include registration issues.

 

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I believe in MI. it is any "Commercial" vehicle or combination of Vehicles over 10,000Lbs. I am going to call tomorrow and check. The MDOT Regs. line is 800-682-4682. They are very helpful and answer the phone every time.

 

[rizzo]

I will try to find time to call the DOT and the Michigan Center for Truck Safety tomorrow

 

[ida34]

For the fellows from Michigan. I do not want to start another long post but I have posted the exact state law in this regards along with the important stuff highlighted. The important thing is no CDL required on vehicles not used in commerce. That means my five ton hauling my stuff means I do not need a CDL. If I haul a load of gravel for Rizzo and Rizzo pays me money for fuel then I am operating in commerce and am a commercial vehicle.

 

[papabear]

ER...that's kinda what i was trying to say ida34...you did it much better! Same as in GA.

 

[ida34]

Link to the page with the Michigan law

 

[ida34]

I really hate to get tied up in yet another "do I need a cdl" thread but it is like eating lays potato chips. I just can't stop myself.

 

[Dodgeman1941]

You need to be carefull when it comes to stuff like this. Recently there was a group with some armor who were coming into Michigan to participate in a reenactment. They were stopped at the scale and they didin't have log books, ect under the I'm hauling my own stuff for non comercial use. The scale called the people running the event an were told that the event was paying for thier fuel. That was all it took, a fine and a 10 hour parking was next. Needless to say they were a noshow for the first day of the event. Even if the event was buying them a cup of coffee, it still is considered a commercial venture.

 

[Jake0147]

Can anyone that is highly experienced with DOT and FMCSA confirm this??

Yes, I can confirm this. You are good on the FEDERAL standard if you keep 100 percent non commercial. As mentioned, don't even let a passenger chip in gas money however if you're crossing state lines.
Next issue is your state standard. Federal applies to interstate commerce, intrastate (commercial AND non commercial) is covered by the state, and the Federal rules are (ahem... stuffed down your state's throat) as a minimum standard, such that state rules must be equally or more restrictive, but never less. Most states (not all....) WILL require a CDL in one form or another and the proper gear for the truck (fire extinguisher, flares/triangles, spare fuses, etc) but you won't be bound by HOS logs and travel reciepts and such.

"Prove that you're not in commerce"...
You can ALWAYS beat that. You can't prove a negative, and when in court the burden lies at their desk, not yours. The problem with that... Once a LEO decides that he's right and you say "no thanks, but why don't YOU prove it..." you really know that situation is headed down the crapper in a hurry. The lawyers and courts will cost you more than the fine and will drag on until long after the offense would have dropped off of your record. You can't prove a negative but any circumstantial evidence should at a minimum not give reason to suspect commercial use.

 

[NDT]

IDA34, this is not a CDL question. For a 5 ton tractor such as the 818 with trailer or a 915 with trailer grossing over 26K, the CDL is a forgone conclusion. As far as Texas DOT, there are no exemptions to "Motor Carrier Certificate of Registration", if you are over 26,000, you have to register, period. Regardless of use. Cost me $221 for 2 years. TXDOT number about to be painted on the door.
My question is about Federal DOT registration, as in USDOT number painted on the door. I don't want to get into that bag of worms as well.
BTW, Rizzo's thread about "91140 gross with the 818" got me off my butt on this . . .

 

[stampy]

Ok so what happens lets just say if you were going on a recovery and used your m109 to towbar a new (to you) M35 home...lets say from Va to NC on Interstate 95/85 south Today?

 

[rat4spd]

Play dumb.

 

[stampy]

Hey it's worked so far....Seriously though. We passed a few weigh stations and several LEO's. I would rather know the law than be ignorant and press my luck any more.

 

[ida34]

IDA34, this is not a CDL question. For a 5 ton tractor such as the 818 with trailer or a 915 with trailer grossing over 26K, the CDL is a forgone conclusion. As far as Texas DOT, there are no exemptions to "Motor Carrier Certificate of Registration", if you are over 26,000, you have to register, period. Regardless of use. Cost me $221 for 2 years. TXDOT number about to be painted on the door.
My question is about Federal DOT registration, as in USDOT number painted on the door. I don't want to get into that bag of worms as well.
BTW, Rizzo's thread about "91140 gross with the 818" got me off my butt on this . . .

Ok. I am getting roped in again. There are two issues to deal with. The need for a CDL and what type of vehicle registration you have. A vehicle registration based on weight is not in and of itself a "commercial" type of registration. My truck has a historical plate but if I got a regular plate I would have get a declared weight plate. A normal plate for a regular truck would not do.

I know I said there are two issues but I lied. There are three. The third one is having to comply with requirements for commercial vehicles. If I have a ford F-350 with a 12000 lbs gross weight rating. If I tow my car hauler trailer with a 7000 lbs gross then I would have a combined gross of 19000 lbs capacity. If I used this combination to mow lawns I would need to paint my company name and location on the truck. If I use it for my own use I do not need to do this. The truck would have the same plate but the use makes it commercial if I use it for landscaping for money. This is where the DOT number and regulations come in and you are correct that the size of vehicle does not matter as long as you are using it to haul your own stuff not to sell.

I once tried to rent an equipment trailer to tow my tractor in for repair. The guy said he would not rent it as a CDL is needed to pull it. I told him that he needed to have a CDL to use it but I did not since I was not a commercial operator while he was. I told him it was fine if he did not want to rent to me but he was in error on the CDL issue.

My comments were not a response to you but a response to another post about needs in Michigan. It does get old seeing a new CDL commercial vehicle debate come to the front every couple of months or so.

 

[digitaldust]

that is right in Michigan as i run flatbeds and vans for pay and pop's can drive a diesel pusher motor home being 90 and never setting in a big rig before .
how ever you may have a problem getting insurance. most agents only goto 10,000 LBS
unless you add a bedroom to your ride and call it a RV



BTW i'm still looking for guys with MV's for Sept. 27,, 5 - 8 PM for show on M21 1 mile west of I75

 

[rosco]

Playing dumb, only gets you so far. Then its push time. As some have done here, its best to stop by a scale (in the family car), and ask what they will require of you.

Make notes and get the Guy's name/date and time. Carry that stuff with you. They appreciate your trying.

Lee in Alaska

 

[stampy]

Thats a great idea! I will do that soon!