SturmTyger380
Active member
- 482
- 30
- 28
- Location
- Easley SC
Boom Cha-a-lacka, Boom Cha-a-lacka, Boom Cha-a-lacka, Boom.
Yes Sir General Sir!
Yes Sir General Sir!
-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Contemplating a Bobber! To do or not to do that is the question!
- Thread starter Section8
- Start date
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Been a long time since I updated...
Mind you I didn't have much to tell. LOL!
Till now.
I am getting stoked for my project again.
I bit the bullet and sold off my Getrag 360 manual 5 speed that came with my cummins
The cash I got from that got me a sweet deal on a medium duty spicer 5 speed from one guy and a 14 inch clutch with SAE #2 bellhousing from another guy.
The two gents were both older and wanting to clean out their shops and had bargain basement prices. Needless to say I was the first and last to respond to their add as soon as they posted. Just one of those super rare instances when you happen to be in the right place at the right time!
Now all I have to do is save a bit for a pilot bearing and I think it is called a thrust bearing.
I am not sure what they cost however I imagine the pilot bearing will be the cheaper.
Will try and post pics of my new treasures soon.
Now if only winter will go away! I have my git er done more jobs again.
As always tips and advise will be appreciated.
Mind you I didn't have much to tell. LOL!
Till now.
I am getting stoked for my project again.
I bit the bullet and sold off my Getrag 360 manual 5 speed that came with my cummins
The cash I got from that got me a sweet deal on a medium duty spicer 5 speed from one guy and a 14 inch clutch with SAE #2 bellhousing from another guy.
The two gents were both older and wanting to clean out their shops and had bargain basement prices. Needless to say I was the first and last to respond to their add as soon as they posted. Just one of those super rare instances when you happen to be in the right place at the right time!
Now all I have to do is save a bit for a pilot bearing and I think it is called a thrust bearing.
I am not sure what they cost however I imagine the pilot bearing will be the cheaper.
Will try and post pics of my new treasures soon.
Now if only winter will go away! I have my git er done more jobs again.
As always tips and advise will be appreciated.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Well what a bummer! !
Finally got out to the barn with my various new to me parts.
Turns out that the clutch and flywheel are the wrong size!
Huge inward groan!
My fault for not properly measuring things up before handing over cash.
The sae #2 bellhousing appears to be correct at least. Although I don't not know for sure said it is a number 2 or not. The numbers stamped on the back don't tell me anything. I have to recount the bolt holes to be sure and do some more research to be 100%.
If anyone out there has or knows of a great deal on an SAE #2 clutch and flywheel assembly feel free to pm me.
Finally got out to the barn with my various new to me parts.
Turns out that the clutch and flywheel are the wrong size!
Huge inward groan!
My fault for not properly measuring things up before handing over cash.
The sae #2 bellhousing appears to be correct at least. Although I don't not know for sure said it is a number 2 or not. The numbers stamped on the back don't tell me anything. I have to recount the bolt holes to be sure and do some more research to be 100%.
If anyone out there has or knows of a great deal on an SAE #2 clutch and flywheel assembly feel free to pm me.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Ok! I am still alive and at it.
It as been a crazy busy year.
I finally got a morning to myself to putz around in my shop.
It was time to start removing the old starter, clutch and backing plate from the cummins.
To say everything came apart easily would be the biggest lie!
Every bolt fought me every turn of the thread! I cussed and cursed, prayed, wished and even begged for the darn things to cooperate.
I did win in the end!
Its to bad i let the cummins sit outside for a while unprotected. The clutch and flywheel were brand new when i bought the set up.
Now after sitting in the elements with out coverage or protection of some sort, the flywheel and pressure plates are rusty crusty pieces of most likely scrap. The fiber plate though coated with rust from both flywheel and backing still looks awesome with tons of material.
Now to install the sae#2 bell housing...
All ready dredding the installs due to the fight i previously had.
To my shock and awe to settled into position agains the engine block like it had always been there and the bolts finger turned to snugness with delightful ease!
That pretty much is where i left it.
End on a good note i say!
I did do some measuring though. I was worried because my spicer 5 speed doesnt have an output yoke just a pinion( thats what i call it) with 4 bolt holes inside for a bolt on yoke and 8, i think, outer diameter bolt holes.
Upon measuring the inner bolt holes on the flange(pinion) it seems to be exactly the same bolt pattern as the M135/211 series interm propeller shaft from tranny to transfer case!
Yaaay big win there. Direct bolt on! Providing i dont have to do a bunch of shifting things forward or backward.
Still havent found a starter yet but i keep looking.
It is to bad thw old clutch and flywheel are so bad, was thinking to sell them to get the money for thw starter. No chance of anyone buying now though.
Other things to get before mating the tranny to the cummins is a pilot bearing with 2 inch O.D. and 1 inch I.D. also a new clutch release yoke, #105c-137.
I will try to get some pics soon. Had to abandon things on a good note and tend to ranch chores.
I will try to keep the posts up.
Later all.
It as been a crazy busy year.
I finally got a morning to myself to putz around in my shop.
It was time to start removing the old starter, clutch and backing plate from the cummins.
To say everything came apart easily would be the biggest lie!
Every bolt fought me every turn of the thread! I cussed and cursed, prayed, wished and even begged for the darn things to cooperate.
I did win in the end!
Its to bad i let the cummins sit outside for a while unprotected. The clutch and flywheel were brand new when i bought the set up.
Now after sitting in the elements with out coverage or protection of some sort, the flywheel and pressure plates are rusty crusty pieces of most likely scrap. The fiber plate though coated with rust from both flywheel and backing still looks awesome with tons of material.
Now to install the sae#2 bell housing...
All ready dredding the installs due to the fight i previously had.
To my shock and awe to settled into position agains the engine block like it had always been there and the bolts finger turned to snugness with delightful ease!
That pretty much is where i left it.
End on a good note i say!
I did do some measuring though. I was worried because my spicer 5 speed doesnt have an output yoke just a pinion( thats what i call it) with 4 bolt holes inside for a bolt on yoke and 8, i think, outer diameter bolt holes.
Upon measuring the inner bolt holes on the flange(pinion) it seems to be exactly the same bolt pattern as the M135/211 series interm propeller shaft from tranny to transfer case!
Yaaay big win there. Direct bolt on! Providing i dont have to do a bunch of shifting things forward or backward.
Still havent found a starter yet but i keep looking.
It is to bad thw old clutch and flywheel are so bad, was thinking to sell them to get the money for thw starter. No chance of anyone buying now though.
Other things to get before mating the tranny to the cummins is a pilot bearing with 2 inch O.D. and 1 inch I.D. also a new clutch release yoke, #105c-137.
I will try to get some pics soon. Had to abandon things on a good note and tend to ranch chores.
I will try to keep the posts up.
Later all.
- 3,912
- 2,723
- 83
- Location
- Edmonton, Canada
Did you just type that the 5 speed spicer has a plate on the back of the transmission that bolts directly to the U-joint / (propeller) on the TC to trans plate/shaft on the G749?
Since you're kinda writing the TM on a swap, are you able to put up years, part numbers and other successful info? What year is that transmission?....I guess I better back-read a bit. Take us along on the challenges too because we can all help with solutions.
I'm coming over, I gotta see this!
My Dad would constantly put away shovels, apply gobs of grease to farm equipment that sat outside, cover tires with plywood, crab about picking up the bike and putting it in the shed...."don't leave the lawn mower out"...."put away your toys"......"why is your hockey stick in the driveway",..."put that chain in the tool box".
He'd pull batteries, oil the chains on bikes, pull spark plugs and oil the cylinders in the roto-tiller/ lawn-mower/ weed-eater/ chain-saw/ pumps and generators. We'd find the 50's Ford Ferguson tractor on blocks so the tires wouldn't flat-spot, waxing the car before winter to keep the rust down, touch up paint on any rust spots that showed up on the car, Harbor Freight (Princess auto) under-coating on the bottom of the cars/ trucks and trailers, barbecues covered up and flags constantly put away.
Protecting the material possessions that the old boy managed to own seemed like an obsession. I thought he did it because he loved this stuff.......but he was just brilliant.....material cheap and cash rich!
Since you're kinda writing the TM on a swap, are you able to put up years, part numbers and other successful info? What year is that transmission?....I guess I better back-read a bit. Take us along on the challenges too because we can all help with solutions.
I'm coming over, I gotta see this!
My Dad would constantly put away shovels, apply gobs of grease to farm equipment that sat outside, cover tires with plywood, crab about picking up the bike and putting it in the shed...."don't leave the lawn mower out"...."put away your toys"......"why is your hockey stick in the driveway",..."put that chain in the tool box".
He'd pull batteries, oil the chains on bikes, pull spark plugs and oil the cylinders in the roto-tiller/ lawn-mower/ weed-eater/ chain-saw/ pumps and generators. We'd find the 50's Ford Ferguson tractor on blocks so the tires wouldn't flat-spot, waxing the car before winter to keep the rust down, touch up paint on any rust spots that showed up on the car, Harbor Freight (Princess auto) under-coating on the bottom of the cars/ trucks and trailers, barbecues covered up and flags constantly put away.
Protecting the material possessions that the old boy managed to own seemed like an obsession. I thought he did it because he loved this stuff.......but he was just brilliant.....material cheap and cash rich!
gentrysgarage
Active member
- 553
- 118
- 43
- Location
- Lost Angels, CA
Here are some measurements I have gotten:
Cummins 6BT 302
weight 942# 765#
lenght 40"(with out fan and wp/no bellhousing adapter 39" back of headlight to firewall
SAE 2 bellhousing 7.5"
FSO6046 and clutchousing 31"
Total trans assembly 38.5 43"
Your transmission might be smaller and that's a plus as you need some clearance for a radiator and fan, on my setup the transfercase is moving back and I am looking for a REALLY short M35a3 connection...once I get closer.
OK so the spacing didn't take/work first number is Cummins second number is 302/G749
Cummins 6BT 302
weight 942# 765#
lenght 40"(with out fan and wp/no bellhousing adapter 39" back of headlight to firewall
SAE 2 bellhousing 7.5"
FSO6046 and clutchousing 31"
Total trans assembly 38.5 43"
Your transmission might be smaller and that's a plus as you need some clearance for a radiator and fan, on my setup the transfercase is moving back and I am looking for a REALLY short M35a3 connection...once I get closer.
OK so the spacing didn't take/work first number is Cummins second number is 302/G749
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Yes i wrote that my 5 speed spicer will apparently bolt right to the interm/ propeller shaft that goes between tranny and transfer case on the G749 series trucks!
I am still kinda in disbelief about it and am waiting for the tranny to drop on my foot.
From all my measurements it seems as though the bolt pattern is a perfect match, so i am keeping my fingers crossed.
Now to try and get some stuff done to this old girl!
For all those interested the tranny is as i said a 5 speed spicer, model #CM-5552-D.
It is going to be mated to my cummins 6bt through an SAE#2 bell housing. Part number A3960395.
The Flywheel to go to the cummins crank output is identified as A3912906 with 173 tooth ring gear at a 10/12 pitch.
The 14 inch single mass clutch from Eaton part number 107683-5.
I am also going to need a new clutch release yoke serial number 697924R6 or cross with another number 105C-137.
This will also intale getting a new starter, which i have researched as a 28MT.
I have asked Santa for a starter and a release yoke for Christmas so we will see what happens. Hope i have been nice enough to make the good list and not to naughty and get a lump of coal!
I am also still on the search for a good 4 core radiator to fit the original rad bucket.
I am aware i am going to have to move the engine and tranny back into the cab a bit but hopefully not more than a couple inches.
One of my biggest problems is still going to be getting the whole works mounted in the frame.
For what ever reason engine/ tranny mounts seem daunting. I want then safe and i want them strong enough to be able to lift the truck off the ground by, should i so choose!
I am going to try an up load pics of my parts. Hope it works.
As always feedback is always welcome and appreciated.
I am still kinda in disbelief about it and am waiting for the tranny to drop on my foot.
From all my measurements it seems as though the bolt pattern is a perfect match, so i am keeping my fingers crossed.
Now to try and get some stuff done to this old girl!
For all those interested the tranny is as i said a 5 speed spicer, model #CM-5552-D.
It is going to be mated to my cummins 6bt through an SAE#2 bell housing. Part number A3960395.
The Flywheel to go to the cummins crank output is identified as A3912906 with 173 tooth ring gear at a 10/12 pitch.
The 14 inch single mass clutch from Eaton part number 107683-5.
I am also going to need a new clutch release yoke serial number 697924R6 or cross with another number 105C-137.
This will also intale getting a new starter, which i have researched as a 28MT.
I have asked Santa for a starter and a release yoke for Christmas so we will see what happens. Hope i have been nice enough to make the good list and not to naughty and get a lump of coal!
I am also still on the search for a good 4 core radiator to fit the original rad bucket.
I am aware i am going to have to move the engine and tranny back into the cab a bit but hopefully not more than a couple inches.
One of my biggest problems is still going to be getting the whole works mounted in the frame.
For what ever reason engine/ tranny mounts seem daunting. I want then safe and i want them strong enough to be able to lift the truck off the ground by, should i so choose!
I am going to try an up load pics of my parts. Hope it works.
As always feedback is always welcome and appreciated.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Try number 2!
Attachments
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
A further edit to previously.
The tranny flange the looks like it will hopefully direct bolt to the propeller shaft doesnt have two sets of bolt holes.
The outer ring of bolt holes is for the brake drum.
Looks like i will have two park brakes!
Will i remember to release them both once i hit the road remains to be seen.
Whats that smell? Why is the truck struggling?
The tranny flange the looks like it will hopefully direct bolt to the propeller shaft doesnt have two sets of bolt holes.
The outer ring of bolt holes is for the brake drum.
Looks like i will have two park brakes!
Will i remember to release them both once i hit the road remains to be seen.
Whats that smell? Why is the truck struggling?
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Off hand does anyone know the ujoint size used in the interm/propeller shaft?
I am trying to locate a yoke with flange face that will bolt to the tranny instead of bolting directly to the propeller shaft.
I am trying to locate a yoke with flange face that will bolt to the tranny instead of bolting directly to the propeller shaft.
- 3,912
- 2,723
- 83
- Location
- Edmonton, Canada
Shaft Sizes G749
Is the part you speak of in the P above the harmonica?.....or the shaft that the P would slide over coming out of the back of the transmission?
I thought I could find sizes in the book but let's nail down that part definition first so I know what I'm looking for.
Is the part you speak of in the P above the harmonica?.....or the shaft that the P would slide over coming out of the back of the transmission?
I thought I could find sizes in the book but let's nail down that part definition first so I know what I'm looking for.
USMC 00-08
Well-known member
- 1,183
- 180
- 63
- Location
- Skiatook, OK
If that is the U-joint in plowboy's book you are looking for, we have it in our parts list as Spicer 5-115X, Rockwell CP115X, Dana 4-6-128X and Precision 332. You can probably find the dimensions you are looking for googling one of those.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Plowboy, USMC awesome quick research!
Love this site for everyone on here willing to lend a quick hand or throw info a guys way when they get lost!
Plowboy i believe i gave you that exact yoke you are indicating with your pen.
However that is not what i am looking for. I went under the old rig and pulled one of the flanges off of the propeller shaft that is still connected to the transfer cases input shaft.
I ran out of light to take it to the new tranny to see if the flange faces bolt pattern will match up like my previous measurements indicated.
This is the part to which i refer. If it fits i am going to be on the hunt for another to connect the tranny and shaft together.
Love this site for everyone on here willing to lend a quick hand or throw info a guys way when they get lost!
Plowboy i believe i gave you that exact yoke you are indicating with your pen.
However that is not what i am looking for. I went under the old rig and pulled one of the flanges off of the propeller shaft that is still connected to the transfer cases input shaft.
I ran out of light to take it to the new tranny to see if the flange faces bolt pattern will match up like my previous measurements indicated.
This is the part to which i refer. If it fits i am going to be on the hunt for another to connect the tranny and shaft together.
Attachments
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
All right! First off.
Wishing everyone had happy holidays and wishing you all the best in the New Year!
Next.
The u joint flange from the interm/propeller shaft is a perfect fit to mate to my spicer 5 speed!
I also measured the cummins and spicer 5 speed to end up with a rough total of 73 inches from fan to out put flange on the tranny.
Now measuring the engine bay and back to the interm/propeller shaft it will be a perfect fit!
Ok not totally.
It will be a pefect fit with( referencing plowboys book) the slip yoke, u joint, and first flanged yoke removed.
This leaving only one flanged yoke, u joint, and flange bolted to the transfer case input shaft.
This is great if you all think that will be ok with out any kind of slip shaft in between tranny and transfer case.
Wishing everyone had happy holidays and wishing you all the best in the New Year!
Next.
The u joint flange from the interm/propeller shaft is a perfect fit to mate to my spicer 5 speed!
I also measured the cummins and spicer 5 speed to end up with a rough total of 73 inches from fan to out put flange on the tranny.
Now measuring the engine bay and back to the interm/propeller shaft it will be a perfect fit!
Ok not totally.
It will be a pefect fit with( referencing plowboys book) the slip yoke, u joint, and first flanged yoke removed.
This leaving only one flanged yoke, u joint, and flange bolted to the transfer case input shaft.
This is great if you all think that will be ok with out any kind of slip shaft in between tranny and transfer case.
gentrysgarage
Active member
- 553
- 118
- 43
- Location
- Lost Angels, CA
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but.......
You need that slip so that you have room for 'gear train growth" under torque. What I am trying to say as the transmission or Transfercase (henceforth abbreviated as TC) get loaded up the geartrain will use up the built in endplay when it has geartrain travel/expansion. The tranny and tc won't load up at the same time/rate this would lead to locked/bound up gears to eventually grenading said tranny and/or tc! Thus the slip yoke alleviates the stress. even the married NP205s have a slip joint input.
Not OK...I will try to explain it in non-technical terms..(mainly because I don't know them, but know why you need a slip joint <the Army felt it was so needed they even made a real short one just for the M35A3>)
You need that slip so that you have room for 'gear train growth" under torque. What I am trying to say as the transmission or Transfercase (henceforth abbreviated as TC) get loaded up the geartrain will use up the built in endplay when it has geartrain travel/expansion. The tranny and tc won't load up at the same time/rate this would lead to locked/bound up gears to eventually grenading said tranny and/or tc! Thus the slip yoke alleviates the stress. even the married NP205s have a slip joint input.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Kinda figured it had to be something along the lines of torque loading in the drive line.
Thanks Gentrygarage.
An M35a3 jackshaft is mighty pricey! 500 USD! That 700 ish CND.
Might see what quick custom splined shaft and corresponding slip shaft would cost. Might be able to use already produced products?!
Thanks Gentrygarage.
An M35a3 jackshaft is mighty pricey! 500 USD! That 700 ish CND.
Might see what quick custom splined shaft and corresponding slip shaft would cost. Might be able to use already produced products?!
gentrysgarage
Active member
- 553
- 118
- 43
- Location
- Lost Angels, CA
HYa Siection 8,
You can get them cheaper than that aftermarket/splicer ALOT cheaper! Just do your homework and make sure you have the right companion flanges (there is male and female registration lugs) I was lucky/unlucky in getting a NOS M35A3 jack shaft and stopped looking at aftermarket.
You ask why Lucky/unlucky lucky I got one for 189.00 with ujoints and shipping. Unlucky as the USPS has had it in route to final destination post office in Los Angeles since December 16 last scan in Pennsylvania!
You can get them cheaper than that aftermarket/splicer ALOT cheaper! Just do your homework and make sure you have the right companion flanges (there is male and female registration lugs) I was lucky/unlucky in getting a NOS M35A3 jack shaft and stopped looking at aftermarket.
You ask why Lucky/unlucky lucky I got one for 189.00 with ujoints and shipping. Unlucky as the USPS has had it in route to final destination post office in Los Angeles since December 16 last scan in Pennsylvania!
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Ok. Update time.
I have still been tinkering with the old girl now and then, as well as my M135. lol!
I got some dual step tanks commonly found on old grain trucks and the likes.
The hydro boost master cylinder is a perfect fit to match up to the brake and clutch pedal assembly from my donor international.
Still have yet to pull the stwering box feom thw donor truck.
Big ticket item i have been still looking for is a radiator that will fit and keep the cummins cool.
Also lookong for flywheel bolts for my SAE 14 inch flywheel and clutch assembly. The stock ones from my old awtup are a quarter inch short.
Also removed the stowage box and step from the passanger side of the truck and the step from the drivers side is next to go.
This is the new location for the step tanks. Thw stock tank is full of sludge and will be set aside with the steps and stow box for future contemplations.
Sorry if this is all over the place but am trying to cram this in before nightly chores.
I have still been tinkering with the old girl now and then, as well as my M135. lol!
I got some dual step tanks commonly found on old grain trucks and the likes.
The hydro boost master cylinder is a perfect fit to match up to the brake and clutch pedal assembly from my donor international.
Still have yet to pull the stwering box feom thw donor truck.
Big ticket item i have been still looking for is a radiator that will fit and keep the cummins cool.
Also lookong for flywheel bolts for my SAE 14 inch flywheel and clutch assembly. The stock ones from my old awtup are a quarter inch short.
Also removed the stowage box and step from the passanger side of the truck and the step from the drivers side is next to go.
This is the new location for the step tanks. Thw stock tank is full of sludge and will be set aside with the steps and stow box for future contemplations.
Sorry if this is all over the place but am trying to cram this in before nightly chores.
Section8
Member
- 503
- 6
- 18
- Location
- Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Ugh! Another set back.
The flywheel i bought apparently has no mounting bolts that will fit for the thickness.
I have checked around the city to see if anyone might cnc or lathe the hub face thinner by a 1/4 inch but nobody will touch it.
They are all to scared the flywheel will blow to pieces during use with a thinned hub.
So now i have a 300 dollar paperweight again.
Now i have to resave to be able to purchase a proper flywheel from Cummins instead of networking through people and internet sales sights.
This ia the biggest issue holding me up now from putting the power train together and in the truck.
Still on the look out for a slip shaft that i can install between tranny and transfercase.
Plowboy, I still have some lights and brake parts collecting dust over here. Shoot me a message next time you figure to be in my area.
The flywheel i bought apparently has no mounting bolts that will fit for the thickness.
I have checked around the city to see if anyone might cnc or lathe the hub face thinner by a 1/4 inch but nobody will touch it.
They are all to scared the flywheel will blow to pieces during use with a thinned hub.
So now i have a 300 dollar paperweight again.
Now i have to resave to be able to purchase a proper flywheel from Cummins instead of networking through people and internet sales sights.
This ia the biggest issue holding me up now from putting the power train together and in the truck.
Still on the look out for a slip shaft that i can install between tranny and transfercase.
Plowboy, I still have some lights and brake parts collecting dust over here. Shoot me a message next time you figure to be in my area.
DUUANE
Active member
- 409
- 128
- 43
- Location
- Qualicum Beach BC
Try these guys..they will make you custom fasteners to your specs/dimensions..i have used them many times..thread rolling and post heat treatment in house. I use them for u bolts and crane foundation rod.
http://www.mcallisterind.com/
http://www.mcallisterind.com/