Crank, No start after new injectors... and other maladies.

[edpdx]

Chasing down my NO Power above 35mph, I installed fresh Fuel injectors. Went pretty well. The problem is it cranks, no start. The batteries are strong, and there is fuel getting to the injectors- I cracked the inlet connectors at each injector. The engine was running with immediate start up BEFORE I put the Injectors in !?!

Two things I found:
1. I cracked the air bleed on top of my spin-on fuel filter, it hissed and fuel spilled out. The fuel pressure gauge dropped immediately to Zero. Fine. At attempted start up the gauge show 8 1/2 lbs of pressure, but when I stop cranking the pressure drops pretty quick to zero.

2.Second issue (non-related?): I ran a clear hose from the top of the IP to the steel return fuel "T". During start-up the line fills solidly with diesel, 30 seconds after I stop cranking the tube fills with air bubbles coming from the steel fuel return line. I clamped off the line at the point where the rubber lines attach to it on either side- first one and then the other. Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles.

At least it was running before I swapped the injectors, now I can't even turn it on to get it to the shop. I'd love to hear any ideas on where I may have gone wrong. Thanks, Ed

 

[Barrman]

Is your pink wire plugged in? I know it is obvious, but I have swapped injectors and had instant starts afterwards. Start over at the basics. Bleed the filter, bleed the lines at the injectors and don’t kill your starter turning it over.

 

[edpdx]

Is your pink wire plugged in? I know it is obvious, but I have swapped injectors and had instant starts afterwards. Start over at the basics. Bleed the filter, bleed the lines at the injectors and don’t kill your starter turning it over.

Pink wire secure- CLICKs with juice applied.
Could all the GPs be bad? They are not old but I got them at far too great a discount on theBay- I worry that they might have been counterfeit 60G .

The batteries are holding up- they crank well but all I get is a burning smell and a little black smoke. Should the smoke give me a clue?

 

[Miah]

It's an 80 chevy but even saying THAT, no a burning smell when you try to start it is not normal. Unless you're talking from the exhaust? Perhaps you best specify where the smoke & burning is coming from.

 

[richingalveston]

remove your glow plugs make sure the fuel is getting to the ip and crank it over until fuel is spitting out the glow plug holes. while you have them out, test them either with a battery charger or jumper cables they should glow pretty quick. if you have an ir temp gun check to make sure they are getting hot at the tip and not at the base or in the middle.

 

[frank8003]

Put the injectors back in that were in it when it was running.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Could all the GPs be bad? They are not old but I got them at far too great a discount on theBay- I worry that they might have been counterfeit 60G .

eBay GPs? That's probably your problem.

Once you have proven that by testing (as already recommended), do yourself a favor. Do some math:

+Price you paid for those cheap eBay GPs
+The value of your time to mess with this problem and find out they are bad.
+The value of your time to install new GPs
________________________________________
=Total Cost of eBay GPs


You still have to buy the new GPs, but you'd have spent that either way, so that cancels out, so, no need to add it into the equation.

Now, compare that Total Cost of eBay GP, to the cost of a legitimate set of GPs, and let us know how much money you saved.

 

[cucvrus]

Like a broken 8 track I always play the same track. The 13G A C Delco glow plugs have always served me well over 25 years of private ownership of my CUCV's. The stock glow plug system is NOT infallible. But if maintained and repaired as needed it seems to last indefinitely. Just repair it as needed and no redesign is required. The biggest update I have used in the new glow plug card with the flashing wait light. But other than that all stock. OK. I hope it all works out for you. But you keep changing things you just add more mystery to the issue and the equation becomes more difficult and advise harder to give. Be Safe.

 

[mtperkins]

If you buy ebay make sure you go with brand name items. I look up AC Delco on their site then buy on EBAY.

 

[cruzer747]

remove your glow plugs make sure the fuel is getting to the ip and crank it over until fuel is spitting out the glow plug holes. while you have them out, test them either with a battery charger or jumper cables they should glow pretty quick. if you have an ir temp gun check to make sure they are getting hot at the tip and not at the base or in the middle.

I second this.... removing GPS will make her spin quicker to work the air out and give you visual indicator of fuel (fog out GP holes when she is ready to plug back up.

I have a quick method for GP testing... vise grips. Grab the hex with vise grips, will make it perfect length to touch the pos lead to + on a 12v battery and touch the butt of the tool to the neg post. do not do an extended test, will get red hot at tip quick(3-5 seconds if good) but they like 9v not 12v so do not do this too long or too often.

also good thing to do is replace one bank of injectors at a time... get her running and then do the next. Will reduce the wait time introduced by air.

-edit- just reread and saw that you saw fual above injectors... better to see mist out the gp holes. If it is not too cold it should be able to start without gp assist even so... maybe a shot of silicone to help it along if need be but I would wait to make sure you are getting mist FROM injectors.

 

[cruzer747]

Like a broken 8 track I always play the same track. The 13G A C Delco glow plugs have always served me well over 25 years of private ownership of my CUCV's. The stock glow plug system is NOT infallible. But if maintained and repaired as needed it seems to last indefinitely. Just repair it as needed and no redesign is required. The biggest update I have used in the new glow plug card with the flashing wait light. But other than that all stock. OK. I hope it all works out for you. But you keep changing things you just add more mystery to the issue and the equation becomes more difficult and advise harder to give. Be Safe.

I agree with this BUT I would add that in my experience it is not necessarily the case where you can rely on a brand name and assume all will be well. TEST whatever you can. I have seen low mileage failures from german GPs, and Delcos... good to get in the routimne to test whatever you are able to before install.... I do not really want to get into injectors but on my work truck the set of chinese nozzles I shimmed to spec are performing well beyond what I have see others get from india bosch.

I think that if you are going to own a diesel that you are going to service, you should get a pop tester. You should test any injector you throw in there prior. I dont care what name is on there, it could save you from melting a hole in your piston!

 

[edpdx]

It's an 80 chevy but even saying THAT, no a burning smell when you try to start it is not normal. Unless you're talking from the exhaust? Perhaps you best specify where the smoke & burning is coming from.

Sorry for not giving any context here. Yes, I meant burning exhaust.

 

[edpdx]

UPDATE: I'm not closing out the thread yet, but I am making progress. I installed the 60G plugs- I have been running them since my first change from stock Wellman's. The GPs were purchased at a price more inline with MSRP- Bought from the ACDELCO seller (really ACDELCO?) on Amazon. They went in fine, and the fire followed . Still, after test driving, I can't get above 40! Shifts are at 19 mph and again at 40. The VRV is fully rotated toward the rear of the engine.

I don't know where to go from here... just now I noticed the fuel pressure gauge dropping to zero after shutting her down. I checked the filter to injector pump line- it's sound, but the connector to the the fuel filter from that line, may be bad. the threaded section seems short compared to the inlet valve. I'll see if I can drum up another- I don't know if it is sucking in air at the brass fitting to the filter, but if it is maybe that is my problem?!? Fingers crossed...

 

[cruzer747]

Since you changed to new injectors that have a higher Pop pressure, it may be coupling with worn timing components and retarding your set up too much. Maybe try making a good mark and advancing it a millimeter and see if there are any improvements? When you are trying to get above 40 is it bogging down or does it sound like the engine is running fine and maybe the torque converter slipping?

 

[edpdx]

Since you changed to new injectors that have a higher Pop pressure, it may be coupling with worn timing components and retarding your set up too much. Maybe try making a good mark and advancing it a millimeter and see if there are any improvements? When you are trying to get above 40 is it bogging down or does it sound like the engine is running fine and maybe the torque converter slipping?

SO after charging both batteries overnight I loosened all the GPs and cranked until they ALL bled. Tightened them down and on the second crank they lit off. During the test drive it was slow to develop speed- the trans sounded like it was whining for a shift; second gear came late-sounding at 21mph. Still not much power as I got to 40MPH when it shifted. I was going 40, but I'm glad I was on flat ground. At that top speed I could floor it but the engine didn't sound as though it was developing any more power.

 

[cruzer747]

What precluded the no power above 35?

 

[edpdx]

What precluded the no power above 35?

Actually I noticed a little loss of power in the hills for a few weeks before the top end dropped out. I was in the foothills and suddenly I felt the accelerator feeling as though its cable was slipping and not pulling the throttle anymore than half way down.

Otherwise the IP is about a year old, new injectors and GPs this week. It's my daily driver so I tend to notice when something's OFF. This feels like it came out of the blue.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Has ya done a compression test yet?

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

If you buy ebay make sure you go with brand name items. I look up AC Delco on their site then buy on EBAY.

If you buy them on eBay you cannot be sure they are genuine. There are a ton of counterfeits being sold there.

 

[edpdx]

Has ya done a compression test yet?

I have not run a compression test. I'll have to look it up. I have a kit, not sure if it has the stuff for desels. I did find that the old #5 GP was pretty wet with fuel when pulled it... not sure what to do about it?