Do you need a CDL for a 5 ton

[Wolfen]

 

[Tow4]

HAA!!! The OP is asking about somebody he SAW driving a truck (probably someone he knows since he knows his age). He can look at the DMV website for his state and get his answer. Or wait for the guy to get pulled over and find out then.

 

[Barneyszoo]

Geez, not this again

Next someone will ask how to turn the fuel up lol

 

[cranetruck]

Come on guys, show the OP some respect, virtually everything has been discussed before, nothing pollutes a thread more IMHO, than constant references to TM's or some search he/she should have done. If you know the answer state it or go to next subject unless you simply want to add to your silly "thread count"...

Maybe we should define "air brakes"?

 

[ratat98]

Next someone will ask how to turn the fuel up lol

How do you turn the fuel up?? I've never figured it out!!






Jus kidding!!!

 

[bonshawman]

More fuel on the burning fire.....

Try and find a FEDERAL definition of "commercial" or "in commerce". It is vague.

In FLORIDA, statutes and definitions conflict (go figure the legislature....).

Generally, in law, commercial means "in commerce" and that means "in furtherance of a business enterprise". Does not require "profit". This is why you can be "private use" (as in "not for hire") but still commercial. This is why Florida has also modified one statute to include motorsports - as the line between a "hobby" and a "business" is vague.

Also, Florida defines a commercial vehicle as having THREE AXLES (regardless of use).

I believe most states have adopted the Federal regulations, and as much stated, most states have their license classes tied to GVWR, not to "use".

Florida, continuing to legislate under the burning sun, also defines a "truck tractor" as "carrying a portion of the weight of the trailer by a fifth wheel". Even idiots (other than state legislators, that is...) understand that a gooseneck connection does exactly the same thing. But if you have a truck that is a tractor (by design and definition) and hauls with a gooseneck NOT a fifth wheel, it has to be tagged as a "heavy truck", NOT a truck tractor.

This is why, again as oft stated, each State is unique and quirky, and specific research will at least illuminate this, although often the simple question lacks a clear answer.

For example in Florida, if my pin-to-center of rear trailer duals (right spot on @ 41') was GREATER than 41' as the LD20 overall length is 50'8 (between 48'-53' per statute), I would need an overlength permit. Regardless of use, regardless of weight.

I have a Class A CDL well endorsed, so the license is not an issue, but even a 1 ton dually in Florida hauling a trailer with a GVWR over 10K with the combination over 26,001 requires a CDL, again with some quirky farm and government use exemptions.

Finally, as a former LEO, many municipal/county cops are not familiar with the "trucking" regulations, and even try to avoid involvement. DOT enforcement in Florida is active, as are Agricultural LEO (especially around the AG inspection stations where, by statute PICK UP TRUCKS towing COVERED/ENCLOSED trailers MUST stop...regardless whether "private" and/or "non commercial", but the same trailer, towed by an SUV is NOT required to stop). So maybe the kid mentioned in the OP can drive around without intervention....

 

[F18hornetM]

In Md, it doesn't mention air brakes as a requirment for CDL, just that you have to have that endorsement. It simply says any vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs requires CDL. So in Md you would need to a CDL to drive a 5 ton, but not a duece. Having said that, my registration for my 5 ton, has "N/A" for GVWR as its taged historic. So i think you could probably get away with not having a CDL. Every inspector Ive seen looks at the registration for the weights. I do have CDLs by the way.
As far as beating a dead horse, who cares! if people want to talk about something, knock themselves out, I dont have to answer or even read it if it bores me. Sometmes people just bring a subject up for conversation.

 

[m16ty]

Maybe we should define "air brakes"?

He mentioned it was a "900 series" (M939) truck. They are 100% air brakes any way you look at it. Any of the older 5-tons would be hyd brakes with air-assist. I don't think you'd need a air brake endorsement on a older 5-ton.

Most states do tie the CDL requirements to GVWR. My uncle got a ticket in TN for driving a empty F450 with gooseneck trailer. The officer said that even though he was under the 26,000lb threshold, the truck was capable of hauling over 26K in it's present from so a CDL was required. He fought it in court and the judge said the same thing.

 

[jaxsof]

The MD CDL booklet, Section 1.1.1, states "you will be required to take the air brake knowledge test if your vehicle has air brakes, even air over hydraulic brakes"

The Fed says "The presence of air brakes alone does not make it a CDL class vehicle." The 26001lbs does, though.

 

[m16ty]

The MD CDL booklet, Section 1.1.1, states "you will be required to take the air brake knowledge test if your vehicle has air brakes, even air over hydraulic brakes".

I will argue that MVs don't have "air over hyd" brakes. In true air over hyd brakes, when you loose air pressure you loose 100% of your brakes. A military vehicle is really no different than 99% of passenger cars out on the road. The only difference is they use air pressure to boost the brakes instead of vacuum.

In a true air over hyd system there is no mechanical linkage from the pedal to the master cylinder. MVs have air-assisted hyd brakes.

 

[cranetruck]

The difference is most likely in the fact that "air brakes" makes it possible to use the same system for the trailer brakes, which makes the deuce's brake system an air brake system also.

An exception to the air over hydraulic for all older 5-ton trucks is the 100% air system used on the m656 series trucks.

 

[quickfarms]

If the vehicle has an air compressor that is used as part of the brake system then an airbrake endorsement, or lack of a restriction is required.

This is not typically enforced for vehicles under 26,000 lbs.

You may or may not get a ticket if you are pulled over, depending upon the officer. But chances are very high that you will get cited or your insurance company may use this to deny paying any claims on a serious accident. This is due to the fact that a serious accident will investigated by commercial or dot officers.

If your state has an exemption for personal vehicles than you have a leg to stand on.

 

[ryan77]

Im just going to get my class b cdl so i dont have any problems

 

[motorolanut]

The best thing for the Op to do is seek out answers at his state DMV office...Other than that it is

 

[jaxsof]

I will argue that MVs don't have "air over hyd" brakes. In true air over hyd brakes, when you loose air pressure you loose 100% of your brakes. A military vehicle is really no different than 99% of passenger cars out on the road. The only difference is they use air pressure to boost the brakes instead of vacuum.

In a true air over hyd system there is no mechanical linkage from the pedal to the master cylinder. MVs have air-assisted hyd brakes.

And DoT uses this definition. Some states, and Canada, actually have a definition of an "air boosted hydraulic braking system" that are NOT air brakes.

I agree, we shouldn't need a CDL based on the brakes, at least on a 2 1/2t or an M809. However, even though the weight has been zeroed out on our "historic" vehicles, if you should happen to attach a trailer to the air lines, you will need one.

It is an easy test. It takes a little time and a few dollars. Just get a CDL. But if you have a problem where you insist on driving after having a few drinks, be advised, if you are stopped with a .04 BAL, you will lose ALL your driving privileges

 

[emr]

So as much as this is silly to us, and it is, like said the search function should be used then ask what was not understood, but for real , do u think U can ask 50 states and get the same answer ? absolutely no same answer to be had, So here it goes in NJ, and i have the book right here, U can drive any tow truck plow snow in any truck or drive an ambulance with out a cdl, U can drive an 18 wheeler with out a cdl if u register it for personal use, and most guys that use this have " not for hire :" on there doors, U will find that if the state cant make money on U , they usually dont care anymore, so no commerce no cdl needed in NJ, and this goes for antique plates also, Oh and we have in transit plates also, these would be used on equipment driving down the road, most guys swear they cant be put on a truck, well like most opinions they are wrong, U can and need no cdl with these either, now the catch for those is it must be going to or from a job of somesort, and since My 5 ton has done movies and advertises me in parades,shows etc, it is always going to a job, I love when guys say, THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER... LOL... 50 states 50 answers all wont be the same thru the whole code. One of the best part of legal questions asked on the internet is the answer the cop gets when pulled over, Hey the guys on Steel Soldiers said it was OK to tow bar 2 deuces behind my cucv... as long as i tyed off the steering wheels in both Thats funny ....................Oh and in NJ there is absolutely NO NO NO air brake provision it is weight only, the air brake component only lasted a year and was changed because of small business lobbying against it, They would have had to hire real truck drivers for more than 10 bucks an hour for there little box trucks. , so the NJ legislators changed it after they were flooded with small business;s raiding the capital, so this tells me there is no fed air brake law cant be.>>>>> OH>> and as for its as easy as a test I SAY NO DONT DO IT dont conform to the man, U are subject to MUCH MUCH MUCH more stringent laws against your driving license once U have it , it is absolutely not worth it , unless U need it for work, It is a license for professional drivers that make there living at it, as far as i am concerned, and if the Gestapo state of NJ says U dont need one unless U do commerce U may very well not need one where U are.. U must read the states u are in book, U will get not true opinions even in the Motor vehicle office from those who are to lazy to look up what they dont know, The Only answer here is read the book in your state. U may have noticed I did twice .

 

[m16ty]

It is an easy test. It takes a little time and a few dollars. Just get a CDL. But if you have a problem where you insist on driving after having a few drinks, be advised, if you are stopped with a .04 BAL, you will lose ALL your driving privileges

I've got a Class A CDL so all this discussion really has no bearing on me personally. It's not a bad idea to go ahead and get your CDL even if it's not required. I've had mine since I was 18.

I deal with DOT regs on a daily basis. It almost takes a lawyer to figure them all out. There are very few trucks on the road that will pass a DOT inspection 100% if they look hard enough. I even saw a brand new truck right off the dealers lot with less than 100 miles fail a DOT inspection (it was a Sterling if it matters).

 

[Wolfen]

Personally I have a Class B CDL and I Recieved a Letter from my State DMV saying that Federal Regulations had changed and I now have to Supply Proof to my State DMV everty Year, that I have a DOT Medical Card for my CDL or the State will Pull my CDL and the will give me a Normal Drivers Licence in place of my CDL. This means, that you will need to get a D.O.T. Physical every one or two Years depending on your Health to keep your CDL. Factor in the Cost and Time spent getting your Physical into the Equation for getting and keeping a CDL. Also, in order to get your CDL, you will need to have a Truck that is Applicable to the Type of CDL you are getting to Test in.

 

[m16ty]

Personally I have a Class B CDL and I Recieved a Letter from my State DMV saying that Federal Regulations had changed and I now have to Supply Proof to my State DMV everty Year, that I have a DOT Medical Card for my CDL or the State will Pull my CDL and the will give me a Normal Drivers Licence in place of my CDL. This means, that you will need to get a D.O.T. Physical every one or two Years depending on your Health to keep your CDL. Factor in the Cost and Time spent getting your Physical into the Equation for getting and keeping a CDL. Also, in order to get your CDL, you will need to have a Truck that is Applicable to the Type of CDL you are getting to Test in.

State regs may have changed but not federal regs. There is no such yearly medical card requirement in TN. You are required in TN to maintain a medical card with a CDL and will be checked if stopped by LEO or when you go to renew your DL.

 

[Wolfen]

I was just going by what the Letter my State DMV sent me.