ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[coachgeo]

....Sometimes the first sign of trouble is a suspicious smell.

Yup... prevented my LMTV from burning to the ground from smell of wires burning.. started chasing all around it (after removing power from batts)... but magic smoke was still being released... Tilted cab lickedy split and found the smell was coating on windings in my Neihoff.... AND it was on fire. Took a full commercial building fire extinguisher (over 125$ to refill company extinguisher ) to put alternator out of fire. An imbalance of battery charge overheated it, is my guess.

 

[GCecchetto]

So I actually tried 3mph, it wouldn't allow it (humorously giving an error saying 0-10 was the acceptable range). 5 was the lowest it would take, 4 was a no go.

Interesting, the 370hp tune I’m running is a much later dated tune than what’s come my way via SS, so maybe different in that regard.

 

[Jbulach]

You all are really making a mess of specific titled threads lately. Maybe one ot the main offenders could create or find an appropriately titled tread, then tag a moderator advising them what post number to start at to strip the chaff out of this thread, or just dump it in one of the generic catch all threads.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

So here is what Allison DOC says in the help files and what options it gives. It looks like you want the "Low Preselects" to shift the RPM down by 150 RPM.





Not exactly sure because I haven't tried it and the software selection isn't well coordinated with the help files in terms of nomenclature but it appears you simply select the alternate e-brake mode:





Mine has neither of the preselect gear settings set to 3rd but my transmission controller was purchased by the previous owner from Stewart and Stevenson around 2019 so may not be configured exactly the same as an original 2008 unit.

 

[GCecchetto]

So here is what Allison DOC says in the help files and what options it gives. It looks like you want the "Low Preselects" to shift the RPM down by 150 RPM.

View attachment 913580

View attachment 913581

Not exactly sure because I haven't tried it and the software selection isn't well coordinated with the help files in terms of nomenclature but it appears you simply select the alternate e-brake mode:

View attachment 913582

View attachment 913583

Mine has neither of the preselect gear settings set to 3rd but my transmission controller was purchased by the previous owner from Stewart and Stevenson around 2019 so may not be configured exactly the same as an original 2008 unit.

I'm likely going to wait until I can find a good HD Allison tech that knows what all of these settings do and how they all interact. The exhaust brake as I now have it set up is, to me, a must for a truck with Eco hubs and will be even better when the target gear is changed. I would also like to have the TCM set so the trans starts in 1st gear when in "Mode". With the lose of the low gear ratio from the planetary gears, it just makes sense for the truck to use 1st gear by default off road.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Finished first ECO Hub today. Very few surprises aside from Somebody went wild with the rtv sealant prior to my ownership! Gunks of it in the hub bolt holes. Is RTV America's secret weapon? Cmon!

Otherwise, the snap ring grind down was the only tedious item. That and the air compressor running out of gas when I neede to release the brakes . I bought the steel gaskets but still did a thin silicone layer on both sides. Now onto the other 3. See pics

 

[aw113sgte]

If you are anywhere north, I'd recommend painting them soon, steel likes to rust!

 

[MatthewWBailey]

If you are anywhere north, I'd recommend painting them soon, steel likes to rust!

Western Colorado. So yeah. Lol. But what color? Black I guess. I have some flat rust oleum spray. I was wondering about that for sure. It won't leave the barn until they're painted.

 

[aw113sgte]

Western Colorado. So yeah. Lol. But what color? Black I guess. I have some flat rust oleum spray. I was wondering about that for sure. It won't leave the barn until they're painted.

Mine are turning a reddish brown since I've been working on other projects so I'm not the one to ask!

 

[Xengineguy]

Finished first ECO Hub today. Very few surprises aside from Somebody went wild with the rtv sealant prior to my ownership! Gunks of it in the hub bolt holes. Is RTV America's secret weapon? Cmon!

Otherwise, the snap ring grind down was the only tedious item. That and the air compressor running out of gas when I neede to release the brakes . I bought the steel gaskets but still did a thin silicone layer on both sides. Now onto the other 3. See pics

Looking good! Nice and clean, the next three will go faster.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Finished first ECO Hub today. Very few surprises aside from Somebody went wild with the rtv sealant prior to my ownership! Gunks of it in the hub bolt holes. Is RTV America's secret weapon? Cmon!

Otherwise, the snap ring grind down was the only tedious item. That and the air compressor running out of gas when I neede to release the brakes . I bought the steel gaskets but still did a thin silicone layer on both sides. Now onto the other 3. See pics

Yet another ECO Hub successful field report today. Got them all painted and refilled with synthetic 75/90. Used the 4pm method on the fronts. I started by running it up a 500yd small hill in the back. 12" snow on the ground. (Unloaded)

In 1st with mode it works better I think, like @Ronmar was saying, I can feel the TC doing its job as I throttle up. Less slippage. Pulling out from a dead stop is nicer since the thing isn't crawling forward hard at idle. More like a regular truck in that sense.

I have a 7mile downhill at 3-6% grade before I can get to the flat creek bed road so I used the engine brake. I think it's actually more user friendly since the retard doesn't drop the speed down so fast that the trans downshifts. At 50, I was starting to roll down quite abruptly on the 6%, but the PAC held it at 48 for a bit and it didn't get to downshift. So sure it has less engine braking power but seems to be more useable now. At least for my drive.

Im still getting the same "check trans" issue, on the same flat section of road, that I was getting without the ECO's. This time I had selected 4, was driving at 48, then the thing up shifts into 5 and gives me the check trans. I pulled over and it reset and went back to 4 on tue display. Same as pre-ECO but now it's upshifting! Before it was happening with 7 selected and downshifting. Also on the way back it ghost shifted from 5 to 5 and threw the check trans light, again at a constant 48This truck wants to be in 5th gear only. Weird bc it's only happening on the flat section of road, both ways too. Must be creek Witches down there?

On the highway, on-ramp was easy, very fast ramp up compared to pre-ECO. I was at 70 on the gps before I knew it. No engine noise this time. I still have XMLs so im hearing those and wind noise. Hit 80 on the flat without realizing so backed off to 75 and it was in 5 on the display, which is 2000 rpm per the latest chart. I upped it to 6 on the pad and barely felt it shift, which is 1500 rpm oon the chart. Holds 75 on the flat. A little unnerving at 80.

it's a little faster up the 6% by 2mph in selection 4. the chart says I'm at 1711rpm at 46mpg whereas before I was dropping to 43-44 in 6th with just the 3.07s and no ECO. Maybe just a better torque curve spot?

all around a great drivability improvement. Now I just need to get the general to flash the ECU. The 3.90s are still on the table but everyone wants a fortune for a set.

thanks @Xengineguy!

 

[coachgeo]

If I remember it right.. and I honestly don't remember where I saw a report that Eco on a truck already with the 3.07 gears ... may not mix well on paper (ratio wise). and that may be true.... wonder though if that combo would let you go DOWN a tire size to one that is commercially, easily available???

Just something to go hmmmmmm about?

 

[jpelc]

Great thread! read all 26 pages. some deviations, if short, where helpful. Thanks for taking the longer off topic elsware.
Quick question: any one have the hub protectors, oem or from Midwest, to tell if they fit after the ECO mod?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Great thread! read all 26 pages. some deviations, if short, where helpful. Thanks for taking the longer off topic elsware.
Quick question: any one have the hub protectors, oem or from Midwest, to tell if they fit after the ECO mod?

Those are CTIS armor. Yes they will fit. I reinstalled a set on a one of the 4 trucks I've converted to ECO hubs.

 

[jpelc]

Those are CTIS armor. Yes they will fit. I reinstalled a set on a one of the 4 trucks I've converted to ECO hubs.

Thanks, good to know. I'll be ordering a set of ECOs soon. Hope it'll be with spacers in place of the split ring.

 

[Xengineguy]

Thanks, good to know. I'll be ordering a set of ECOs soon. Hope it'll be with spacers in place of the split ring.

Spacers are not going to be available on Eco Hubs, the split collars that are current production are 1/2” thick and use a larger
pinch bolt. What is in the works is what I’m calling ”Delta Locks”. They engage the fixed splines on the axle tube and the pins on the axle nut. The lock is held in place by the split collars. We have had no problems with the split locks alone however this is a feel good
solution for someone that wants more redundancy. Not a bad thing. Hopefully I will have the first batch the 18th. Will keep everyone posted… Mike

 

[aw113sgte]

Spacers are not going to be available on Eco Hubs, the split collars that are current production are 1/2” thick and use a larger
pinch bolt. What is in the works is what I’m calling ”Delta Locks”. They engage the fixed splines on the axle tube and the pins on the axle nut. The lock is held in place by the split collars. We have had no problems with the split locks alone however this is a feel good
solution for someone that wants more redundancy. Not a bad thing. Hopefully I will have the first batch the 18th. Will keep everyone posted… Mike

I would argue spacers are not just a feel good solution, they are a mechanically better solution that also reduces installation error. They are also far less expensive too produce than a split collar.
Please don't take this as an insult, I'm super pleased you took on this challenge but iterative improvements are the nature of all our devices.

 

[Xengineguy]

I would argue spacers are not just a feel good solution, they are a mechanically better solution that also reduces installation error. They are also far less expensive too produce than a split collar.
Please don't take this as an insult, I'm super pleased you took on this challenge but iterative improvements are the nature of all our devices.

I didn’t say the spacers were a feel good solution. The problem I see with spacers is that the distance between the wheel nut and the
bolt adapter changes from truck to truck. Yes you can shim the inner gear to make it work. I don’t see that as a simpler solution
or reducing insulation error. I encourage you to produce the aluminium spacers and the instructions for the installation .
Also spend the time to answer the questions when the install goes a bit sideways.
I have always listened to my customer feed back and provided solutions to problems whether they actually existed or not.
I will continue to improve Eco Hubs as time allows. Mike

 

[aw113sgte]

I didn’t say the spacers were a feel good solution. The problem I see with spacers is that the distance between the wheel nut and the
bolt adapter changes from truck to truck. Yes you can shim the inner gear to make it work. I don’t see that as a simpler solution
or reducing insulation error. I encourage you to produce the aluminium spacers and the instructions for the installation .
Also spend the time to answer the questions when the install goes a bit sideways.
I have always listened to my customer feed back and provided solutions to problems whether they actually existed or not.
I will continue to improve Eco Hubs as time allows. Mike

Sorry if my comment came across as offensive in some way. I don't care for the split lock as if one screw fails (that can't be visually inspected) the wheel can detatch. It wasn't for me so I shared my modification, free for anyone who wanted it. I don't have the time or mental energy to deal with supporting a product (nor want to deal with product insurance...have been down that route before).
I like the idea of including a spline lock, greatly increases the safety from the one without.
Personally I just like a system that locks that wheel nut on similar to stock, many bolts would have to back off and they would be visible. I've been on many first responder calls working on people dying from vehicle mishaps, so I'm likely a bit more sensitive safety than most.

 

[Lostchain]

What is in the works is what I’m calling ”Delta Locks”. They engage the fixed splines on the axle tube and the pins on the axle nut. The lock is held in place by the split collars.

Dumb question but couldn’t you just substitute the split collars for a beefy spring that keeps the delta lock pushed onto the hub nut? Wouldn’t that completely eliminate the split collar and the risk associated with it coming loose?