Feeler: Turbo kit for the Diesels

[DrFoster]

I've got a thought - your intake probe is way off. Maybe it's too broad using an EGT for the intake temps? Not calibrated to read that low? 145 seems a bit cold.

 

[DrFoster]

Yeah to make it a three-poster in a row.. I've thought about it for a few minutes... sounds WAY off. Let me look at the math... well, 487 CI, 2600 rpm, 58°f AIT, 14lbs boost... should be a Temp out TC of 257° f

 

[Djfreema]

I thought it seemed low too. At idle it was about 75-80 degrees after it had been warmed up. It might make a difference in your calculations being that it is 478 CI and I was only at about 2200 rpm at 14lbs boost. Anyway it will give me a baseline for when I do some turbo/intercooler mods. I took pictures but they are blurry so I have to change my shutter speed. Will try and take some better ones tomorrow when I head back to Port Hueneme to help Khilding pick up his duece.

 

[cranetruck]

Doc: Was hoping you would share the method of calculation/formula(s) for the efficiency bit.

DJ: You need a radiator grill cover! Keep your engine op temp at 180 or so.
I have never measured the charge air temp. Looked at the intake manifold and it's double walled for coolant circulation in most places. Guess putting the temperature probe in the adapter, where the flame heater components are would be an acceptable compromise...

Doc: Does your formual(s) take into consideration the "multifuel" spherical combustion chamber design. Fuel is made to burn slower compared to conventional diesels? Runs cooler, perhaps more efficient.

My max boost is about 12 psi with an EGT of 1,150F (PRE-turbo). Don't know about melted pistons etc., never heard of a case other than a blown head gasket.
Normally, on level road the boost is about 3-4 psi with a EGT of about 900F at highway speed, which means 2,500 rpm and 5th gear.
Running on biodiesel/veggie oil seems to lower the exhaust gas temp and boost some.
My turbo is the -1D model, non-whistler.

 

[Djfreema]

I did a longer test on Friday by going out to Port Hueneme. Had it floored all the way there, coolant was about 130-140 ish, boost was about 5-7 lbs, rpm 2500, outside air about 55 and the charge air temperature was between 147-160 depending on when the governor would allow more fuel for the small hills. I think it might be pretty accurate. When I would come to a stop and let it idle, The temp would drop to around 70-80 degrees. The real test is going to be a heavy load up a big long hill like the grapevine. It looks like these trucks might benefit from an intercooler although I dont know how much, probably wouldnt be worth the trouble.

 

[DrFoster]

Maybe the veggie oil is holding some extra oxygen and helping to cool the charge? I don't know. That's an interesting one in itself. I'm still re-working the flange design to find a better volume and fit the proper sizes still, or close to them. I won't be logging anything until I get it figured out.

I'd have to look into the MF design to see what exactly you mean. If it's regular compression, regular explosion, close to diesel, this program should be pulling out good numbers. It was spot-on for my SRT-10 Venom and my SRT-4 too. We've also used it on a Porsche Turbo, Dodge Cummins, and a couple others as a baseline prediction, and the actual dyno tuning was never further off than about 5%. Most often what created our errors with the program was inaccurate weather input.

At first I was going to put an intercooler on it and leave it at that. Problem is the vibration, and mostly the piping that will get in the way. With the stock turbo it was a pressure loss of 3-5 psi with that much piping, and god help you if you had a leak somewhere... you'd be bike-pumping and spraying water for days. It is possible, but not practical. A better flowing, wastegated turbo is better for now. Maybe I'll sort out a water cooled Intercooler that can be mounted by the fender and have an electric fan pull through it.... All ideas for later on!

 

[cranetruck]

DJ, still don't see how you can drive with the engine at only 140F, I wouldn't leave the yard unless it's 175 or so....
My turbo is very responsive, the boost pops up to 11-12 psi very quickly in the hills, even small ones.
My fuel has not been turned up, but the smoke cam angle is still set for N/A operation and that may make a difference in fuel delivery.

Doc, if you don't have the efficiency formulas handy, do you have a good reference to save me some research time?
How is the hunt for a deuce coming?

 

[Djfreema]

I have a grill cover but havent put it on. It runs really cool without much of a load but once I put some strain on it the temp gets up to 180-185ish. I am going to try the grill cover this week.

 

[dlb]

I d be interested in a turbo setup as I have the LDT 465-1C and on big hills I sometimes drop down to 40 mph with the 900x20's and I just put on the 1100's so im sure it might get a little worse now. I do alot of long hauls pulling my 725 to meets and wheeling and Im not ready to swap out engines yet as I have several other projects Im working on doing first. eventually I was thinking about the dt466 or a newer 6bt with the banks kit and nos along with propane injection as will be also done in my 715 with 5 ton steering axles.

 

[DrFoster]

That sounds cool. I'm still working avidly on finishing the new flange for the kit (that's what has taken so long), and then I can start sending them out.

After a discussion I had with the other guys last night, I'm going to let you guys tell me wha tyou want in the kit, so it can be more "modular".

Base packages are a choice of two turbos. One wastegated, and one is just a bolt-on replacement for the KKK 3LM/3LJ.

Add ons will be:
Gauges
Custom Wastegate Actuator (sp? I'm in a hurry this AM... grrr)
Exhaust flaps / mufflers / pipes
Choice of Boost controllers - electric (BEST) or Manual (in cab adjustment)
Fuel Controller (coming)
Intercooler (coming) either water to air or air to air, haven't decided on that yet

All the other stuff, hoses, clamps, gaskets, flanges, ect will come with any turbo. This will be a bolt-on, no modding required - and that is why I'm having to re-work the flanges.

As far as what specific turbo, I'm thinking that that holset is a good choice, with our custom turbines, and there are a few other candidates that will be tried on the truck, because only the actual driving can prove what the paper says...

Talk to you later, and thanks for posting!

(Welcome to the forum too)

 

[hot rod deuce]

well i kinda got a dumb thought. Where abouts did you pute the probe? Before or after the "after cooler" You know how the coolant is piped though the manifold? well every one calls that an "after cooler" Which it is just like an air to water but less complicated. Well shouldnt the air charge temp be well over water temp. Ok maybe just a little? like he said in the 270 range? that is unless you got those numbers at the intake valve side of the manifold rather than turbo inlet

 

[mangus580]

HRD, take a look at a post that Cranetruck made recently.... where he measured the temps before and after the air went through the intake....

 

[DrFoster]

Update:

I think I got ripped off by the shop that is supposed to do our new flanges. I paid ahead of time for them and I can't get a response to my email, calls, or anything else. I don't have time right now to go in there and talk to them about it.

I'll have to fabricate and machine them myself if things went south.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Send me the drawings. I can machine them. AutoCAD 2004 Lite, so it has to be 2D.

 

[jwaller]

I've got access to a waterjet cutter, I bet I could have them done by the end of the week. I've been watching this thread bc I know there are waaaay more efficient turbos out there. heck turbos today are like computers, every week somebody has a new compressor wheel design thats better and better all the time.

 

[cranetruck]

Don't forget that the reason for the turbo on the 2-1/2 ton multifuel was to eliminate the smoke, not for increasing power, but some power increase just couldn't be avoided, he he he.

 

[DrFoster]

Guys, I'll consider farming it out as soon as I can get in touch with the local shop. One of the guys that works there is a good friend of mine - that's why I used them.

This flange just isn't a simple plate like most. In order to drop from TV size to T4 you need an 8 cm2 cast reducer and two flanges actually. That's the difficulty.

 

[rizzo]

no problem, my kid just made one out of play dough. I'll have that done for ya Friday

JK

 

[jesusgatos]

What ever happened with this project? I just found this thread while searching for info on adding an external wastegate to the stock turbo, and this was the only relevant post I could find.

...we were playing with collector dimensions to increase spool of the stock turbo and add in a wastegate.

 

[Biggles]

Bump

Did anythign ever come of this?