First tank WMO and engine quits!

[dodgedougak]

I tried my first tank of WMO blend today and engine shut down after three blocks. I filtered the WMO through 1 micron filter and water separator. Good looking batch of lube oil that came out of a CAT engine I manage. I mixed 20 gallons of WMO with 30 gallons of straight diesel. Engine has been running good with no problems on diesel. The WMO has lived in a 50 degree F. garage as has the deuce. The weather outside was about 33 degrees F. so should not have been a problem, right? Not too cold for a 40% WMO to 60% diesel mix. It was not even outside long enough to get cold. The engine just slowed down and stopped. It would crank but not fire. I got it towed back to the garage and after 4 hours in 50 degrees F. it would still not fire. I checked and had good fuel supply (black but thin) at the top bleeder on the secondary fuel filters. I changed the primary and secondary fuel filters anyhow. Still no fire. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[mikgyverx2]

tryed starting on straight diesel???
how warm was the fuel in the tank???
fuel at injectors ???

 

[wreckerman893]

I always add some regular gas just to thin it out...it's possible that you have an air leak or blockage in the line that coincided with your first tank of alt fuel.

 

[gimpyrobb]

What you have described sounds like filters to me. Sounds like they were questionably close to being plugged and the thicker fuel put them over the edge. One other thing, is the in tank pump operating? Since I don't know your truck, I have to ask.

 

[autigers35a3]

a shot of starting fluid do anything? i agree with checking fuel at injectors. good luck

 

[HanksDeuce]

One of the SS members tried some warm WMO in his truck for his first alternative fuel batch and he made it about 5 miles before breakdown. Turns out the warm (HOT!) WMO caused the rubber hose inside the tank to pop off the fuel pump outlet bung at the top of the tank. His fuel pump was working, but the WMO/Diesel mix wasn't making it out of the tank. Another SS member let him borrow an external fuel pump until the internal rubber line was replaced. Although the warm WMO caused the rubber hose to swell and pop off the outlet bung the hose had definitely reached the end of its life (split, cracked and rotting).

Good luck!

 

[dodgedougak]

Thanks for the ideas! I suspect Gimpyrobb is right. I was waiting on changing the fuel filters till I had run some WMO mix through them. Today was my last day at home before going back to my ship, so I just flat ran out of time to troubleshoot. I did check that I had fuel at the top of the secondary filters, did not have time to try alternate fuel sources or even bleed at the injectors. The fuel had flowed that far in the system and was black, but fairly thin. That tells me that at least some of my fuel mix had made it through the filters. Perhaps, just not enough flow to sustain engine RPM. I did not heat the WMO, It was just ambient temp of the garage, as was the diesel fuel in the tank, prior to introducing the WMO. Now I get to spend two weeks on the ship and worry about it, before I can work the problem. I got the filters changed, but did not have time to bleed the canisters and retry a start. When I get home I will do that. If that does not fire, I will try to setup diesel in a boat tank with external pump and purge the lines to the injectors. I will post the results of my efforts. Happy New Year to all

 

[goosewcs]

Syntheic oil could of crystalized in the motor and shut her down ! (if u used syntheic Waist oil)

 

[dodgedougak]

In this case it was all Chevron Delo 400, which is not synthetic, but it is something to remember for the future. I will get back to working on the truck on tuesday.

 

[RAYZER]

Syntheic oil could of crystalized in the motor and shut her down ! (if u used syntheic Waist oil)

I have run over 100 gal of synteck Mobil 1 with no issue,in fact my deuce loves it!

 

[goosewcs]

I have run over 100 gal of synteck Mobil 1 with no issue,in fact my deuce loves it!

I hope it works out for you ! I know of several diesel failure's buring snyntheic motor oil as fuel ..it crystalises in the engine and then causes lock up ............espicially in the dueces/M35 If u private im me I can give u the number to our head mechanic at our motor pool, he can explain better then I can !
I am very careful what I put in my M35A2.............

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

I hope it works out for you ! I know of several diesel failure's buring snyntheic motor oil as fuel ..it crystalises in the engine and then causes lock up ............espicially in the dueces/M35 If u private im me I can give u the number to our head mechanic at our motor pool, he can explain better then I can !
I am very careful what I put in my M35A2.............

Is that an issue at low ambient temp's?

 

[dodgedougak]

news on troubleshooting multi-fuel that quit

Just an update. I mixed my first tank of WMO (highly filtered) 20 gall to diesel 30 gall. The truck idled for 5 -10 minutes at the garage and then ran about 3 blocks before it just quit. It did not stutter, it did not lose revs, it just quit. I got it towed back to the garage and had to leave it for a couple of weeks.

I figured maybe plugged filters, so changed them. I have bled the primary and secondary canisters. I have the proper 5 psi (or so) at the primary filters. I show about the same 5 psi at the bleeder on top of the secondary filters. I get a few more psi, when the engine is cranking, but nowhere near the 60 psi that I think I should have. I have zero fuel in the HP fuel lines at the injectors.

So, if I have fuel to the gear pump (on the outside of IP) and no where near the 60 psi that I should have from the gear pump to the IP, what is the problem. Am I just air bound and not bleeding it correctly? Is there a drive pin in the gear pump that might have let go?

BTW it will fire with starting fluid. Any help appreciated.

 

[hughscpa]

I wish I knew and wish you the best of luck. This is a very interesting problem opcorn: I will continue to monitor.

 

[joshjourdan]

That sounds too low, but I dont know. Do you have fuel out of the IP lines? Tried cracking a line at the injector to see? Might want to check the plunger in your HH if not, its been known to seize.

 

[dodgedougak]

link to good troubleshoot and adjust info

Found a link to a great pdf for setting fuel pressures and throttle linkage. It is the Continental Motors troubleshooting guide. Tre link is:
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/troubleshooting the multifuel engine.pdf
From this and TM's it looks like my next step is to pull the boost pump (gear pump on side of IP) to check it and the integral fuel pressure regulator. After that, the hyd. head, I guess. Even with all the good info on fuel pressure diagnosis, the first step assumes just the in-tank pump running, you need to have 5-7 psi. The second step requires the engine to be running at no-load, idle speed to produce 65-70 psi at the secondary filters. The TM tells you how to shim the pressure regulator to get the 65-70 psi. It then goes into setting the throttle linkage and throttle stop to get correct max no-load speed. Good stuff.

 

[stampy]

If it fires with either then it is getting some fuel. As far as I know diesels won't run on either alone and must have some diesel being injected to fire. I'd crack the lines at the injectors and turn it over to see if you are getting fuel at all the injectors. If so then tighten them up and see if it fires if not I'd pull the injectors

 

[dodgedougak]

Sorry, thought I had updated! I pulled the hydraulic head and found the plunger seized in the barrel and the thrust foot/keeper dropped off. I am waiting for a new HH now.

 

[stampy]

Great! Glad you found the problem! Hopefully running a blend with wmo will lubricate the internal better and you won't have any problems going forward.

 

[reloader64]

Stampy, diesels will run fine on ether, as long as you spray a little at a time in them. I've done it on old equipment, because I was too lazy to bleed the fuel system after running out of fuel.

Scott