Frying Alternators

[porkysplace]

In regards to under hood temperature. I have personally measured my 2013 Chev Silverado pickup. At the alternator which is on top front of the engine 187f degrees, in July here in SC with the AC on.. Your open fender trucks probably are cooler but how about a Limo- Police Car- Taxi - SUV and many others with tight quarters. They are over 200 f for sure. Many alternators are in a good location, and many are near or over the exhaust manifolds. I was speaking in a general sense. The industry is serious about raising engine temperature higher again. That means of course, higher under hood temperatures. Higher temperatures, less pollution -cleaner burning, and better mileage. You mention pricing, $395 for a new 70 amp 24 volt J mounting alternator. Same for a 145 amp 12 volt. $495 Special includes the Air Filter Kit as seen on the web. No core charge. Pad mounting available.
Special $1495 for all new TRUE Dual voltage 12 v 145 amp and 24 volt 70 amp. Patent 7291933,9793779. 100 % new parts. Core charge for dual voltage if not received in 30 days. Shipping extra. 2 year warranty with filter kit.
more info ron@double-alt.com competitor Military alt and then our alt with filter. Notice bearing with rust and dirt in competitor.
View attachment 713124View attachment 713125 www.double-alt.com

I don't see that air filter lasting very long on a MV or any kind of construction/off-road equipment unless it is strictly a parade queen .

 

[big block 88]

Rattle can will fix the color easy enough. So if read this correctly $1495 is for a dual voltage alt kit ready to go with belts and mounting? $495 is for a straight 24 volt but its only 70 amp?

Pretend im a small stupid child that knows nothing about this stuff (not far from the truth btw) but explain to me why your 70 amp 24 volt unit is better than the offshore gm single wires i run with 160 amps that are cheap and plentiful?

In all honesty i love the idea you have here and back in my big car stereo days would have really let up at a high capacity charging system. I would cook alts every other month till i downsized the systems and figured out how much money i was throwing away. Luckily i wised up and found a hobby that doesnt require me to throw money away..... oh wait.... crap

 

[74M35A2]

Chinese Delco clones can be had new for about $90 in 70amp 24v rating, J-180 mount, 1 year warranty. I’ve never seen an air filter on an alternator, it likely greatly restricts cooling flow since the fan does not pull strongly. His setup is convienent, but pricy. I just draw off one battery or use an inverter if 12v needed, but the majority of the truck is 24v anyway.

Those that had to have a 12v alternator have just added one onto their engine for $100.

http://www.double-alt.com/

 

[big block 88]

I draw off a single battery for 12 volt also. Like the ac blower on the tmg kit is a 12 volt unit. We are now just installing a large junction box under the seat to run all the 12 volt stuff the owner uses. Like stereo, phine chargers, bluetooth for phone, cb radio.

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

Any paint color you wish or I can leave it Aluminum and you can have at it. This alternator is sealed air tight. The yellow is heavy equipment yellow.
We were thinking about a military camo as option. Any recommendations?

 

[Tinstar]

Any paint color you wish or I can leave it Aluminum and you can have at it. This alternator is sealed air tight. The yellow is heavy equipment yellow.
We were thinking about a military camo as option. Any recommendations?

Good to hear.
Flat black, Flat OD, Flat tan.
Of course the Aluminum color just like the factory Delcos will work also

I would have to see the camo but it doesn’t sound appealing.

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

In regards to my alts. ALL alternators are milled on our CNC machine to provide better air flow, tighter tolerance, and correct casting errors. Patent 9793779. None are in stock form from Chinese, Mexico, India or USA. Every part is removed for the milling operation so that liquid coolant can be used. The CNC mills to 2/10,000 of a inch or .0002 inches. We re-balance the rotating assembly, and perform quality test, including a hard load amp for 30 minutes, with voltage check. Some parts are added and some removed. The unit does not look the same when it leaves our shop. Air flow test show an increase in both air flow speed, and volume, using the air filter designed for our alternator. A lot of effort was put into these filters. You do not have to buy our alternators, but we are the only one with a alternator designed for air filters. Do you run your engine, transmission, fuel without a filter? We have flow meters, air speed meters, vacuum meters, flow bench, balancer, multimeters, oscilliscope, and more test equipment than any other shop I have seen. I have a 3rd US Patent 9592462B2. It was used in part to design the air flow through the alternator.
Some people just will not respect others accomplishments. The best in the new year to all.
One of the milling setups.
We have a alternator model for race cars, and two designed for Airplanes. Built with 6061 billet material.
Bearing and retainer removed. CNC Mill is used on all of our Single and Double Alternators. .0002 accurate

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

For paint we have to use a etching liquid to get the paint to stick. The paint has some epoxy in it to make it more durable.
Powder coat can be done but only with bare parts. We will have a few paint selections in January.
Regards
Ron

 

[Suprman]

So it's 2 alternators stacked? Do you have a pic of one installed?

 

[porkysplace]

In regards to my alts. ALL alternators are milled on our CNC machine to provide better air flow, tighter tolerance, and correct casting errors. Patent 9793779. None are in stock form from Chinese, Mexico, India or USA. Every part is removed for the milling operation so that liquid coolant can be used. The CNC mills to 2/10,000 of a inch or .0002 inches. We re-balance the rotating assembly, and perform quality test, including a hard load amp for 30 minutes, with voltage check. Some parts are added and some removed. The unit does not look the same when it leaves our shop. Air flow test show an increase in both air flow speed, and volume, using the air filter designed for our alternator. A lot of effort was put into these filters. You do not have to buy our alternators, but we are the only one with a alternator designed for air filters. Do you run your engine, transmission, fuel without a filter? We have flow meters, air speed meters, vacuum meters, flow bench, balancer, multimeters, oscilliscope, and more test equipment than any other shop I have seen. I have a 3rd US Patent 9592462B2. It was used in part to design the air flow through the alternator.
Some people just will not respect others accomplishments. The best in the new year to all.
One of the milling setups.
View attachment 713142 We have a alternator model for race cars, and two designed for Airplanes. Built with 6061 billet material.
Bearing and retainer removed. CNC Mill is used on all of our Single and Double Alternators. .0002 accurate

I don't think any of us run without a air filter on our trucks , but I bet the the number is very low on people who run a paper air filter without a housing protecting it from mud, water,dirt ect. when off-roading . Take a look at the Haspin and Georgia rally photo threads and see what some people put these trucks through , I just don't see a open paper filter on the side of the motor staying clean for very long . Yeah it's probably filter on a race car not a mud truck.

 

[74M35A2]

We do appreciate ingenuity, but the price point is not effective at this location, that's all. Almost all of us can fit 2 alternators on our engine accessory drives if we want/need to, so for us, you would need to come in at just over the price of 2 Chinese Delco clones, or about $250 for your unit, and they would be flying off the shelf. Very cool you have patents, they are not cheap to do correctly.

Is the unit listed in the Wolverine link yours also, or is somebody pimping your patent already?

 

[162tcat]

In regards to under hood temperature. I have personally measured my 2013 Chev Silverado pickup. At the alternator which is on top front of the engine 187f degrees, in July here in SC with the AC on.. Your open fender trucks probably are cooler but how about a Limo- Police Car- Taxi - SUV and many others with tight quarters. They are over 200 f for sure. Many alternators are in a good location, and many are near or over the exhaust manifolds. I was speaking in a general sense. The industry is serious about raising engine temperature higher again. That means of course, higher under hood temperatures. Higher temperatures, less pollution -cleaner burning, and better mileage. You mention pricing, $395 for a new 70 amp 24 volt J mounting alternator. Same for a 145 amp 12 volt. $495 Special includes the Air Filter Kit as seen on the web. No core charge. Pad mounting available.
Special $1495 for all new TRUE Dual voltage 12 v 145 amp and 24 volt 70 amp. Patent 7291933,9793779. 100 % new parts. Core charge for dual voltage if not received in 30 days. Shipping extra. 2 year warranty with filter kit.
more info ron@double-alt.com competitor Military alt and then our alt with filter. Notice bearing with rust and dirt in competitor.
View attachment 713124View attachment 713125 www.double-alt.com

At that price I can buy a lot of Chinese alternators or even 2 Delco 24si alts (a 12 and 24) and still have over $900 in my pocket. Plus if one side dies I'm only replacing one alternator that I can drive to the store and purchase. I'm sure your product is great and there is an application for it but my M817 was about the same price as your alt and I drove it home. My 923a2 wasn't much more and it also drove home. As far as the filter stuff, on my M817 my trans (manual), cooling system, hydraulic system and diffs all have no filters and have been working great since 1971. An alternator filter is just one extra thing to maintain/replace/cause issues. Tons of heavy equipment and trucks used on dusty and dirty job sites run for thousands of hours on filterless alternators without issue.


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[74M35A2]

Yep. Bad news as that filter plugs up and the alternator melts. Better to leave it open and let everything pass, like a jet engine.

 

[Jbulach]

From that information I know for sure you have too many things electrical going on. 60 amp is not even close.
When you 1st start the engine the alternator will be at full output trying to refill the watts that you used since it was running. The alternator has to also maintain the watts that you are using to keep the engine, trans, fans, lights, gauges, anything that is on. A 100 amp gauge in line to/from the alternator will tell the story.
The best would be a replacement alt both 14 and 28 volt output. This would eliminate inverter/equalizer and isolator.
Whenever you use a electrical conversion 14 to 24, 24 to 12 you loose amps and create heat. Can be 15 to 30% loss.
You then need to have only a 12 volt bank of batteries and a 24 volt bank. For more info email ron@double-alt.com

Watt?
14 to 24? 24 to 12?
Loosing amps?
Okaay!!!

For more info email ron@double-alt.com

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

Why do people pick and pick. We have two things going a prefilter and a aluminum shield for those that do kick up the mud.
Maybe one should ask before showing their?
Below is a few filters with pre filters.
Notice the pre-filters that can be washed. We have aluminum mud shields too. Most do not need it, but we have it available. The v8 LS motor off road racers replace their alternators after each race. We are working with them. Air Filters are much cheaper.
The remote location should be where the air is cooler. 18% gain in watts/power with cooler air. Hello.
We have proprietary procedures and do not share our information. Interesting questions.

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

Loss of amps. Any time you use electronic equipment to change voltages you give away some of you watts/power/amps.
Every time you pass through a diode you loose voltage. That loss creates heat. Ask any electronic knowledge person.
This should help
From Microship's Web Seminar on DC-DC converter design example, Buck converter example. Their particular application example is a 2A converter ouput.
Buck Converter Diode Selection
Estimate Diode Current: ID = (1-D) · ILOAD
ID = (1.0- 0.416) · 2A = 1.17 A
Where D = Duty cycle
Max Diode Reverse Voltage = 12V
Select Schottky rectifier: A 1N5820, 20V, 3 A Schottky meets requirements
Power Dissipation: VF · ID = 0.47 Watts
Here is their reasoning: The diode’s average current is equal to the load current times the portion of time the diode is conducting. The time the diode is on is: (1 – duty cycle) The maximum reverse voltage on the diode is Vin which is 12 volts in this example. The current and voltage ratings are low enough that a small schottky diode can be used for this application. By using a schottky diode, switching losses are negligible. The forward voltage drop for the selected diode is about 0.4 volts at the peak current of 2.0 amps. The estimated diode power dissipation is 0.47 watts.

 

[DOUBLE ALT]

Thanks for the heads up. I believe they have a large problem.

 

[Jbulach]

Very large.

 

[74M35A2]

That’s what she said.

 

[Tinstar]

This isn’t the Department of Defense.
Your products, while innovative and cool, are very expensive.
The attitude isn’t helping.

Steel Soliders members are a very knowledgeable bunch.
Mechanical, electrical, real world, etc.
We have to be.....to keep these trucks running and driving.

Most guys here, including myself, have never seen an air filter on an alternator.
It’s new and different so of course there will be tons of questions and some skepticism.
Understandably, you can’t tell us every minute detail for business reasons but offer as much info as you possibly can.

A lot of guys here can afford your product.
A lot cannot.
As already pointed out, much cheaper and very reliable alternatives can be installed.
Several guys already run two alternators for dual voltage, at a much cheaper price point, with great success.
So it will be an uphill battle to get anyone to spend serious money on a unproven (installed on Military Trucks) dual voltage alternator.

Highly recommend using a different paint color to showcase your product.
This isn’t the yellow color crowd with race cars. (I know a few do).
This is the Olive Drab crowd with battle proven, United States Military Tactical Vehicles.