Has anyone converted a 6.2 into a turbo charged unit?

[Attackpilot]

I've looked a little into this effort, Borg Warner was turbo manufacture for 6.5. I hate to say it but start with a 6.5 if you can.....intake, exhaust manifold, and turbo. Stick with the original gear on 6.5. Vacuum or mechanical waste gate, injector pump and oil it's a mess to drive it all. I'll have more when I start conversion....I'm doing it for altitude in Denver Colorado to recover HP and torque....not increase HP....so I would love any info you find. Even the dog house has to be replaced. I'm just starting to buy parts now. They derated these engines for reliability. Down line drive stuff won't take much torque.....I would love to drop a 6.6 Durmax but ehhhhh...half shafts are limited. There is a current motor 6.5 and tranny with turbo on eBay I believe....save you some time. Then rebuild 6.2 for back up?

 

[TOBASH]

I've looked a little into this effort, Borg Warner was turbo manufacture for 6.5. I hate to say it but start with a 6.5 if you can.....intake, exhaust manifold, and turbo. Stick with the original gear on 6.5. Vacuum or mechanical waste gate, injector pump and oil it's a mess to drive it all. I'll have more when I start conversion....I'm doing it for altitude in Denver Colorado to recover HP and torque....not increase HP....so I would love any info you find. Even the dog house has to be replaced. I'm just starting to buy parts now. They derated these engines for reliability. Down line drive stuff won't take much torque.....I would love to drop a 6.6 Durmax but ehhhhh...half shafts are limited. There is a current motor 6.5 and tranny with turbo on eBay I believe....save you some time. Then rebuild 6.2 for back up?

I have been carefully considering what needs to be done. I have already purchased the entire turbo charging unit from a 6.5 L. I'm going to have to get the exhaust manifold gaskets for a 6.2 L and use them as templates to make a custom exhaust manifold that will lead up to and meet with a 6.5 L turbo set up. I will then route a custom tube up to the intake. I will be able to reuse the boost pressure blow off valve from the 6.5 unit. I am still working out where I will get the oil from and how I will return the oil to the pan. I will also need to upgrade the fuel pump. There will of course need to be exhaust pipe routing and I will need to cover that pipe with ceramic. I will also need to add exhaust gas temperature sensors and water injection because there is no space for an intercooler.

Whipple used to make a forced air induction unit for the 6.2 motor. I would need to get a higher output fuel pump. I would still like to see if I can get one of those second hand and rebuild it. That will require reshaping the portal to the dog house, but I think that will be much less work than welding of a custom exhaust manifold, because that would just be fiberglass work.

Before all this is to begin I want to get the car otherwise mechanically in shape, and that will take time. Turbo charging my vehicle is many months away.

T

 

[TOBASH]

Please post images&descriptions of differences b/t 6.2&6.5 Turbo heads&exhaust manifo

Please post images&descriptions of differences b/t 6.2&6.5 Turbo heads&exhaust manifolds.

I need to understand any differences between the head's screw positions, and differences between the angles that the exhaust manifolds attach to the heads.

Images are awesome. Descriptions also help.

I don't care about the intakes screws and such, just the exhaust manifolds and how they attach differently to the heads.

What makes the 6.5 turbo exhaust heads and their attachments different from the normally aspirated 6.2 heads WITH RESPECT TO EXHAUST MANIFOLD ATTACHMENT? What makes the attachment areas and screws for the turbo 6.5L exhaust manifolds different from the 6.2 liter naturally aspirated exhaust manifolds?

Different angles off attachment? Different screw/bolt positions? Spacing differences?

Thanks,

T

 

[snowtrac nome]

the 6.5 and 6.2 engines are the same on the outside, the exhaust will bolt up as will motor mounts, and flywheel. the heads are different animals on the inside, 6.5 heads will flow more volume and make for a good performance mod for a 6.2.

 

[TOBASH]

It does not make sense to me. Other individuals on the BB state bolts and attachments for the exhaust manifolds are different.

I need to be sure attachment points are the same or how they are different.

(internal workings of the heads are not important to me at this point of time, but I thank you for the info).

If I'm wrong about exhaust manifold attachment points and such I'm sorry and I apologize.

What I really need are two engines side by side, but that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

T

 

[86humv]

The intake bolt holes for turbo heads are at a different angle than 6.2, 6.5 NA heads
Hummer/hmmwv / GM Van 6.5 turbo intake bolt angle : 60 deg.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I replaced quite a few 6.2's in the army with 6.5's hmmwv headers were the same and I know for a fact that the civilian manifolds will also bolt up. the intakes were different as I remember you needed a 6.5 intake if you were installing 6.5 heads on a 6.2 and the water manifold. flywheels are the same for gen 3 6.2's and 6.5's if you have a first gen engine with the 2 piece rear main than the flywheel will be different. yes the turbo heads are different as are the exhaust manifolds but the ports are still the same. in summery a na 6.5 is a direct replacement for a gen 3 6.2 and with a fly wheel for a 6.2 with a 2 piece rear main. if you have a turbo motor you will need all the turbo components to go with it.

 

[TOBASH]

I replaced quite a few 6.2's in the army with 6.5's hmmwv headers were the same and I know for a fact that the civilian manifolds will also bolt up. the intakes were different as I remember you needed a 6.5 intake if you were installing 6.5 heads on a 6.2 and the water manifold. flywheels are the same for gen 3 6.2's and 6.5's if you have a first gen engine with the 2 piece rear main than the flywheel will be different. yes the turbo heads are different as are the exhaust manifolds but the ports are still the same. in summery a na 6.5 is a direct replacement for a gen 3 6.2 and with a fly wheel for a 6.2 with a 2 piece rear main. if you have a turbo motor you will need all the turbo components to go with it.

SO...

If I was to have a turbo system from a 6.5L...

Does that mean I can attach turbo exhaust manifolds to a 6.2 liter and create a custom attachment from the turbo output to the stock 6.2 liter intake to complete a turbo install?

I would thieve the oil from somewhere and then just dump into the intake manifold.

Thanks,

T

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Let's be clear here....nothing from a 6.2 or 6.5NA will work on a 6.5 turbo motor in respects to the intake or exhaust manifolds. The head angles are totally different and the components are mfd'd to accommodate these changes.
there is more info on the interweb then one can digest on these motors,I suggest going over to the Diesel place forum, they deal only in GM Diesel engines....

 

[TOBASH]

Let's be clear here....nothing from a 6.2 or 6.5NA will work on a 6.5 turbo motor in respects to the intake or exhaust manifolds. The head angles are totally different and the components are mfd'd to accommodate these changes.
there is more info on the interweb then one can digest on these motors,I suggest going over to the Diesel place forum, they deal only in GM Diesel engines....

Thanks.

I'll custom fab a set of exhaust manifolds this summer.

I will also go to that forum.

Appreciate the info.

T

 

[911joeblow]

I have done this with the N/A 6.5 by making a custom 'T' that connects the OEM exhaust manifolds to a custom Garrett turbocharger that sits in a similar position to the stock GM7 turbo. The Garrett is light years better than the GM7 as far as efficiency and is also much physically smaller which makes it possible to run without lifting the body. I also do not use the silly intake design either. I run to a custom front mount intercooler first and then back to the standard N/A intake which is far less restrictive than the turbo manifold. The results were a significantly more powerfull truck without a lot of extra junk to do. You do still need a turbo engine cover or customize yours. The stock 6.5 pump retuned was enough for moderate power but injectors would be need to push it more. We never dynoed the truck but my GPS based performance monitor said 300HP and that was without pushing things at all and at 7000ft altitude! I would think 400HP is possible with that setup but I would only do it on a GEP motor.

As far as the 6.2 I have not tried it yet but I would think that if the 6.5T manifolds bolt on physically I could make the custom 'T' to accommodate the difference in head angle? The only downside is I dont have a 6.2 truck to look at it first hand. I might buy one just to do this.

 

[gringeltaube]

SO... If I was to have a turbo system from a 6.5L... Does that mean I can attach turbo exhaust manifolds to a 6.2 liter

Yes.

... and create a custom attachment from the turbo output to the stock 6.2 liter intake to complete a turbo install?

Maybe yes, although it will be a "narrow fit", at least. But first you will have to fab a custom mount for the turbo assembly itself. Also need to replace the stock intake elbow on the compressor side with something much shorter (lesser radius).

I'll custom fab a set of exhaust manifolds this summer.

Why? The military 6.5L turbo stock exhaust manifolds will bolt on just fine. Although the attaching pipes may have to be modified a bit, because of the turbo being relocated.

I would thieve the oil from somewhere and then just dump into the intake manifold.

What???

 

[TOBASH]

Yes. Maybe yes, although it will be a "narrow fit", at least. But first you will have to fab a custom mount for the turbo assembly itself. Also need to replace the stock intake elbow on the compressor side with something much shorter (lesser radius). Why? The military 6.5L turbo stock exhaust manifolds will bolt on just fine. Although the attaching pipes may have to be modified a bit, because of the turbo being relocated. What???

As far as the "WHAT???"... I was tired and typing at midnight... I meant I can dump into valve cover or oil pan. OOOOOOPS!!!

All this being said, RWH is usually on point, so why is he saying the exhaust heads won't mate up?

I gotta worry if RWH does not agree and give his blessing, 'cause that guy is a respected rebuilder.

Are you guys absolutely 100% certain the bolts come out at the correct angle for me to mate 6.5 TURBO exhaust manifold heads to a 6.2. If it was this easy I wonder why no one else has done it.

Best,

T

EDIT---GRINGELTAUBE - I just noticed the images. Is that a 6.2 with an exhaust system off a 6.5 that you were kind enough to post for me?Awesome images with much food for thought!!!

Do you have any images of the exhaust manifolds placed on or next to the heads?

Gracias!

 

[gringeltaube]

Well, yes... de nada... (I have plenty of loose parts laying around to play with; 6.2's as well as civi and mil 6.5's.)

I'm not sure what exactly RWH was referring to... and I know he knows!
All I can say with absolute certainty is this: The actual bolt pattern for all model exhaust manifolds in question is exactly the same, with all 8 bolts being exactly perpendicular to the mounting surface of all model heads. That means you can literally mount every style EM (civi or mil) on any model head; switch sides and even mount them inverted, front-to-rear and/or flipped upside down. (One exception of the rule: the driver side EM of the HMMWV 6.5L turbo engine has a 90deg outlet elbow, facing inward and can only be used on that side. Or on the pass. side, with its outlet going to the front of engine)
(I have plenty of pics to document this, if anyone was still in doubt...)

What is different between the early 6.2L heads and all others is the inclination of the EM mounting face. It is only a few degrees and should not affect your project in any way - since you had to create custom tubes anyways, to connect the respective EM outlets to the turbo inlet(s).

Besides that, the intake side of the head for the mil. (and van) turbo engines, is different from all other heads, in that (most of) the intake manifold attaching bolts are NOT perpendicular to the mounting surface. Which again should not bother you, according to your plan.
FWIW, I have plugged, re-drilled and tapped such heads in order to be able to use them for the normal N/A intake manifolds. It's a lot of work, yes - but can be done without compromising the head's structure.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Let me clarify...not that they won't fit, It's not a bolt right up conversion for the exhaust manifolds to the exhaust tubes that connect to the turbo. Sorry....I don't do bubba work, if I want a turbo, I put A turbo motor in...anything can be made to work...just not what we do at RWH. You could drop a turbo motor in with the TH400 and that would bolt right up.
plenty of them available for as cheap as 3k.

 

[TOBASH]

Now I have a clearer picture of the issues.

The Military "van" heads have bolts placed at 60 degrees to allow intake manifold placement as one unit, allowing it to slide on and off. The design allows the turbo to get closer to the deck by creating a right and left channel rather than a center intake with spider arm splits to distribute airflow. The spider shaped n/a intake allows for easier bolt placement with 90 degree bolts. The turbo setup with two large right and left air distribution areas would have issues with bolt placement and tightening, hence the 60 degree re-direct.

Any exhaust manifold angle issues can be resolved with light milling.

Manufacturing a new air intake manifold would require 3 or 4 inch square tubing with a crossover that mates to the turbo output. The stock n/a air intake rides too close to the turbo. The stock turbo intake manifold would probably mate up with light milling BUT would have issues with bolts at the wrong angles preventing effective fastening. Thinning the existing bolt holes and trying to redirect would be difficult on several levels and would turn the stock turbo manifold into fragile AND Swiss-cheesed junk.

I would need to mill the exhaust manifolds lightly AND fabricate a new intake manifold from square tube stock to get this done.

RWH is correct that engines cost 3000K making that an effective route on the surface, but buying a used engine is like throwing the dice. You just never know what you're gettin'. I would need to know the engine is solid, and how do you really know without seeing it run and pressure testing it? And how many engines for sale are still running and in the vehicle, ready for compression testing? Still, RWH is correct that this is a direct and simple method. Unless RWH knows of a super good engine here on the East Coast near the 11235 zip code, shipping might be ridiculous.

Thanks all.

T

 

[Barrman]

I think there are several terminology issues in this thread. There are people answering engine questions and other people answering HMMWV specific figment questions. Lots of confusion.

Let's start with the engine. Yes, any 6.2 or 6.5 engine will bolt into the truck. Yes, any 6.2 or 6.5 head will bolt onto any other 6.2 or 6.5 block. Yes, any 6.2 or 6.5 exhaust manifold will bolt up to any version of a 6.2 or 6.5 head. The exhaust ports on the head are all the same.

The above are all mix marching I have done myself with different engines and parts.

The block is next. All of the 6.2 blocks have the hold down bolt for the oil pump drive in the middle of the rear valley wall. Some early 6.5 blocks are the same. These engines also have a pressurized oil source above the oil filter.

Most 6.5 blocks have the hold down bolt on the passenger side of the rear valley wall. They have the same oil source but it might be a bigger port on '96 or newer blocks. These blocks also have a pressurized oil source in front of the passenger side head.

Blocks meant for a center mount turbo have oil ports in the rear of the valley. Psi and return. Along with turbo bolt down threaded bolt bosses.

Heads. I think there were 6 different castings over the years. Then different pre combustion chambers could be fitted to the different castings. The angle of the injectors was also changed around the time of the 6.2 to 6.5 cross over.

But, all the straight intake manifold bolt heads can be put onto any other engine and everything will bolt up. The side mount turbo exhaust manifold might need a spacer or a pair of exhaust manifold gaskets to clear the wider angle injector lines on the 6.2 heads. That is the only difference.

The center mount turbo heads have the intake manifold bolts going straight vertical as mentioned a post or two up. That is so the different manifold runners can be installed after the turbo is bolted to the rear valley area. This is also mentioned a few post up. The angle of the center mount turbo intake bolts is 60° to the face of the cylinder head. All other 6.2 or 6.5 heads have bolts that are 90° to the face of the head.

Because the 60° heads are obviously meant for a turbo, they have the diamond marked pre-cups in them already. 567 is the last 3 digits of their casting number. These are considered the best heads and pre-cups to run a turbo with. 567 castings also had the straight bolts.

People have used 567 diamond heads with straight bolts with center mount turbo intakes. Much modification is required though. I have a pair of 567 diamond 60° heads on my Banks turbocharged 6.5 with a stock 6.2 intake. I had to modify the intake a lot. But it can be done.

Did that clarify anything?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Now I have a clearer picture of the issues.

The Military "van" heads have bolts placed at 60 degrees to allow intake manifold placement as one unit, allowing it to slide on and off. The design allows the turbo to get closer to the deck by creating a right and left channel rather than a center intake with spider arm splits to distribute airflow. The spider shaped n/a intake allows for easier bolt placement with 90 degree bolts. The turbo setup with two large right and left air distribution areas would have issues with bolt placement and tightening, hence the 60 degree re-direct.

Any exhaust manifold angle issues can be resolved with light milling.

Manufacturing a new air intake manifold would require 3 or 4 inch square tubing with a crossover that mates to the turbo output. The stock n/a air intake rides too close to the turbo. The stock turbo intake manifold would probably mate up with light milling BUT would have issues with bolts at the wrong angles preventing effective fastening. Thinning the existing bolt holes and trying to redirect would be difficult on several levels and would turn the stock turbo manifold into fragile AND Swiss-cheesed junk.

I would need to mill the exhaust manifolds lightly AND fabricate a new intake manifold from square tube stock to get this done.

RWH is correct that engines cost 3000K making that an effective route on the surface, but buying a used engine is like throwing the dice. You just never know what you're gettin'. I would need to know the engine is solid, and how do you really know without seeing it run and pressure testing it? And how many engines for sale are still running and in the vehicle, ready for compression testing? Still, RWH is correct that this is a direct and simple method. Unless RWH knows of a super good engine here on the East Coast near the 11235 zip code, shipping might be ridiculous.

Thanks all.

T

I buy my motors from southern metals, just as many many others are...I've had no issues and the motors are tagged with the mileage as they came out of the running trucks. There are plenty of places on the east coast to buy these motors, TNJ Murray comes to mind, Eastern surplus etc...I'm sure they would provide a warranty on products sold, mind you, the price is going to be higher...or make a trip down to SM and pick one up.
we do this conversion all the time in the shop and these motors run fantastic, my customer could not be happier.

 

[Action]

Here are pics of the turbo mounting area and the intake angle. I just took these....





you can also see that valley drain pipe between the flex plate and block, that has been discussed before.

 

[racing4funn]

I have done this with the N/A 6.5 by making a custom 'T' that connects the OEM exhaust manifolds to a custom Garrett turbocharger that sits in a similar position to the stock GM7 turbo. The Garrett is light years better than the GM7 as far as efficiency and is also much physically smalle.

Where would I find said turbo? Part number? Link?

Yall are funny and causing yourselves lots of work and money. Cut your muffler off, weld in a turbo flange positioned correctly, rout the exhaust tubing as necessary and send the fresh air to the front. Plenty of room and can be tucked above the bottom of the frame. There I saved this thread