mangus580
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Wow...... yankee grass as far south as Virignia huh?
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Heated fuel tank project, biodiesel, WVO..
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Polverone
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That would be some of our exported "California Sunshine" in it's solid state.Recovry4x4 said:
gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
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On your fuel lines being copper, I was noticing that most freon lines for home hvac are copper with a black foam rubber type insulation on them, if you need to insulate your lines that could be an option.
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Thanks for the suggestion!
Rubber is not good with biodiesel, but I soaked a piece of polyethylene insulation in biodiesel and it showed no effect afer a week.
The image below shows a section of the insulated fuel line. The copper line is on top of the red heater hose and the polyethylene insulation is draped over as seen in the picture. It's open along the bottom for drainage. The copper line above is from the "AUX" tank and is not insulated. The heater hose in the background is the return heater hose from the "MAIN" tank heating coil. (Sorry about the poor quality of the pix).
Vinyl tape did not do well in the soak test so I'm just using cable ties to keep it together.
This is all work in progress, so any input is appreciated.
Rubber is not good with biodiesel, but I soaked a piece of polyethylene insulation in biodiesel and it showed no effect afer a week.
The image below shows a section of the insulated fuel line. The copper line is on top of the red heater hose and the polyethylene insulation is draped over as seen in the picture. It's open along the bottom for drainage. The copper line above is from the "AUX" tank and is not insulated. The heater hose in the background is the return heater hose from the "MAIN" tank heating coil. (Sorry about the poor quality of the pix).
Vinyl tape did not do well in the soak test so I'm just using cable ties to keep it together.
This is all work in progress, so any input is appreciated.
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Bjorn,
I'm NOT sure what size (OD) your copper tubing is. But if the current insulation idea doesn't work out, go find some water heater hose or garden hose that will 'slip over' the OD of the copper tubing.
Just slice it down the middle like the current insulation and viola, an insulated copper tubing that WILL take the heat and the spillage of biodiesel.
I've used this idea in a couple of areas NOT related to transportation and it works great. jim
I'm NOT sure what size (OD) your copper tubing is. But if the current insulation idea doesn't work out, go find some water heater hose or garden hose that will 'slip over' the OD of the copper tubing.
Just slice it down the middle like the current insulation and viola, an insulated copper tubing that WILL take the heat and the spillage of biodiesel.
I've used this idea in a couple of areas NOT related to transportation and it works great. jim
DrFoster
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How about silicone Radio Control fuel line? I've had really good luck with that stuff.
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Keep in mind that I'm also heating the fuel line that carries biodiesel since it would otherwise "coagulate" in cold weather.
The red coolant hose gets hot and transfers some heat to the copper fuel line. That's why they are wrapped together. The biodiesel return line is warmed similarily.
Only tested it down to 24F, so the jury is still out.
My biggest problem are the occasional tiny rust flakes from the fuel tank (it was a used one that I modified), glogging my valves.
I'll be okay for the Florida trip at the end of next week, but I'll have to get back to the system with a primary fuel filter in each line. The valves in the return lines work very well since that fuel is filtered.
The red coolant hose gets hot and transfers some heat to the copper fuel line. That's why they are wrapped together. The biodiesel return line is warmed similarily.
Only tested it down to 24F, so the jury is still out.
My biggest problem are the occasional tiny rust flakes from the fuel tank (it was a used one that I modified), glogging my valves.
I'll be okay for the Florida trip at the end of next week, but I'll have to get back to the system with a primary fuel filter in each line. The valves in the return lines work very well since that fuel is filtered.
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Hi Bjorn,
undoubtedly this tread has become the absolute “bestseller” of this forum! Thank you for all the input from your experiments and for being our pioneer in this matter! Keep up the good work!
I’m sure your fuel lines aren't dripping, so why to worry about biodiesel-resistance of the insulation material?
I'm about to finish my own petrodiesel/SVO setup, also with a heating coil inside a combi-tank and I’m planning to use Armaflex or similar pipe insulation and A. sheet to keep pump, filter and lines warm. (Just google for Armaflex, there is plenty of info about application).
Will see if that LDS 427 MULTIFUEL deserves its name and is capable to burn refined salad oil, either sunflower or soybean oil, summer and winter, always fresh from the super market (no free fatty acids), without sacrificing to much power, “eating” to much or other side effects! Good that our winter is not so strong, temperature very seldom drops below 0ºC. Hopefully the engine likes soybean, actually it’s only U$S 0.65/l compared to our poor quality, high sulfur diesel, now at U$S 1.-per liter but going up these days to 1,20!
Gerhard
undoubtedly this tread has become the absolute “bestseller” of this forum! Thank you for all the input from your experiments and for being our pioneer in this matter! Keep up the good work!
I’m sure your fuel lines aren't dripping, so why to worry about biodiesel-resistance of the insulation material?
I'm about to finish my own petrodiesel/SVO setup, also with a heating coil inside a combi-tank and I’m planning to use Armaflex or similar pipe insulation and A. sheet to keep pump, filter and lines warm. (Just google for Armaflex, there is plenty of info about application).
Will see if that LDS 427 MULTIFUEL deserves its name and is capable to burn refined salad oil, either sunflower or soybean oil, summer and winter, always fresh from the super market (no free fatty acids), without sacrificing to much power, “eating” to much or other side effects! Good that our winter is not so strong, temperature very seldom drops below 0ºC. Hopefully the engine likes soybean, actually it’s only U$S 0.65/l compared to our poor quality, high sulfur diesel, now at U$S 1.-per liter but going up these days to 1,20!
Gerhard
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Thank you Gerhard for your kind words!
I'm sure your mulftifuel engine will not let you down. Just think about the viscosity of the fuel, it needs to be thinned out, by heating and/or mixing.
My engine, LDT-465-1D (converted N/A) has never started as easily, today at 35F, it seemed to fire the moment I touched the start button, must be the methanol in the unwashed bio that now is mixed in both tanks, thanks to poor valve action.
I'll check into the Armaflex stuff. Thanks for the tip!
Good luck with your experiments.
I'm sure your mulftifuel engine will not let you down. Just think about the viscosity of the fuel, it needs to be thinned out, by heating and/or mixing.
My engine, LDT-465-1D (converted N/A) has never started as easily, today at 35F, it seemed to fire the moment I touched the start button, must be the methanol in the unwashed bio that now is mixed in both tanks, thanks to poor valve action.
I'll check into the Armaflex stuff. Thanks for the tip!
Good luck with your experiments.
Polverone
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Bjorn,cranetruck said:
Very much enjoyed this thread since it's inception.
Before we paint Harley tanks here we have them acid dipped at a radiator shop and then apply (pour in) an epoxy coating inside the tank to prevent rust. Check at a good motorcycle supplier and inquire about the coating for inside the fuel tank. I'll bet with a little Googling or ebaying you may find some - even in Deuce quantities.
mangus580
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Eastwood has it
reblawyer
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What type of nipple did you use to tie in to the engine cooling system?
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The coolant flowing through the coil in the fuel tank took the place of the hot water personell heater system in my current system. I rarily used the heater anyway, but valves can be added to select either for maximum flow. The coolant filter is also in a parallel circuit.
alphadeltaromeo
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Bjorn - I just got through reading this thread. It's taking me a while to get through all the threads on SS...but with that said, have you or anyone on this site considered heating the WVO by wrapping the lines around the exhaust system?
Andy, who is learning a significant amount on this wonderful SS site.
Andy, who is learning a significant amount on this wonderful SS site.
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Yeah Andy, the problem with using the exhaust is control. It gets hot fast.
When in Oklahoma, I extracted the exhaust diverter valve from the doomed M50A2 water tanker. It is seen to the left in the image below.
The M50 uses an exhaust diverter to keep the water from freezing.
Thought it might come in handy one day.
BTW, while on the road, the fuel temp stays warm just from recirculation. About 130°F most of the time without the coolant heater. The heater was used only in the mornings to get things to an acceptable running temp (about 100°).
When in Oklahoma, I extracted the exhaust diverter valve from the doomed M50A2 water tanker. It is seen to the left in the image below.
The M50 uses an exhaust diverter to keep the water from freezing.
Thought it might come in handy one day.
BTW, while on the road, the fuel temp stays warm just from recirculation. About 130°F most of the time without the coolant heater. The heater was used only in the mornings to get things to an acceptable running temp (about 100°).
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reblawyer
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Bjorn, do you think that one could get straight veggie too hot using an interface with the exhaust system? I have been thinking about a few wraps of copper on the exhaust just before the fuel line goes into the engine compartment as a way of adding a booste of heat before hitting the filters.
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You need to experiment. Don't know the answer, but the veggie oil can be 180°F and still be more viscous than regular diesel at room temp.
Some installations use electrically heated tape wrap for that extra boost of heat.
Some installations use electrically heated tape wrap for that extra boost of heat.
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What a great thread
Thanks out to all of you who are keeping this thread up and running with such great information and discussion. I have toyed with this idea for some time and am ready to get into the mapping of the system required to make it sustainable with the limited time per week that I could engage in the process.
Is there any thought of making an injector to partial out clean WVO into a straight diesel fuel system, with the metrics designed to keep the engine running at the best mixture? I know that the return lines would carry back the mixture so I was thinking about how to keep most of this mixed fuel burned rather than returned. It seems to me that biodiesel lends itself to a co op or some other joint production plan. For those of us close enough to WVO sources yet land scarce and constrained by city ordinances the Co op seems to be a way to go.
I could see some of my line haul owner operator friends getting involved and quality control could be maintained.
I am thinking about using the storage space mentioned between the rails for the location of a use boat fuel tank that is about that size for the bio-diesel /WVO whichever way this winds up.
Just some thoughts any comments appreciated
Thanks out to all of you who are keeping this thread up and running with such great information and discussion. I have toyed with this idea for some time and am ready to get into the mapping of the system required to make it sustainable with the limited time per week that I could engage in the process.
Is there any thought of making an injector to partial out clean WVO into a straight diesel fuel system, with the metrics designed to keep the engine running at the best mixture? I know that the return lines would carry back the mixture so I was thinking about how to keep most of this mixed fuel burned rather than returned. It seems to me that biodiesel lends itself to a co op or some other joint production plan. For those of us close enough to WVO sources yet land scarce and constrained by city ordinances the Co op seems to be a way to go.
I could see some of my line haul owner operator friends getting involved and quality control could be maintained.
I am thinking about using the storage space mentioned between the rails for the location of a use boat fuel tank that is about that size for the bio-diesel /WVO whichever way this winds up.
Just some thoughts any comments appreciated
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Hi Bijorn,
Couple of questions.
You mentioned that you would have prefered aluminum coil to copper. Is this because of the weight or the long term effects on the copper? I am thinking of getting stainless from a surplus metals place near me.
Did you ever settle on a particular valve for the switchover, and if so, which one?
Do you think it would be a good idea to put some short pieces of neopreme hose over the tubing a various points to keep it from dinging the coating on the inside of the tank?
Finally getting ready to put the coil in, but since I have to go buy the tubing first I thought I would ask first.
Thanks again for hauling that trailer all the way out here. I may actually get to see it if I can escape from California before it falls into the sea. economically that is.
Bruce
Couple of questions.
You mentioned that you would have prefered aluminum coil to copper. Is this because of the weight or the long term effects on the copper? I am thinking of getting stainless from a surplus metals place near me.
Did you ever settle on a particular valve for the switchover, and if so, which one?
Do you think it would be a good idea to put some short pieces of neopreme hose over the tubing a various points to keep it from dinging the coating on the inside of the tank?
Finally getting ready to put the coil in, but since I have to go buy the tubing first I thought I would ask first.
Thanks again for hauling that trailer all the way out here. I may actually get to see it if I can escape from California before it falls into the sea. economically that is.
Bruce
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Hi Bruce,
Got your email also....the project has been in limbo for a while since I haven't driven the trucks very much since the cross country trip.
About the valves, I decided on motorized valves for the 8x8 so that they stay open or closed if/when power is cut.
I'm leaning towards using electric heat for tank heating, since the fuel basically is self heating while driving and I don't like to rob heat from the engine while it is warming up as well. Some of the fuel lines are now electrically heated on the 8x8.
After an hour or so on the road, the fuel temp stabilized at 120 to 125 °F, which is enough for biodiesel and VO/diesel mix and that was without any heating except from the return fuel.
Copper works well, but stainless or aluminum is probably better for the long term.
I also want to get away from using used VO, which is acid and has left a residue in the fuel tank....
As you can see, I don't have any good answers for you, the percentage of veggie oil and/or biodiesel will depend on the length of the trip, higher for long trips and smaller for short trips.
Another observation, when using the dual tank system it's almost impossible to completely flush the filters when switching and the diesel tank will end up with some small percentage of bio fuels. When the truck is fitted with fuel burning heaters, any contamination of the pure diesel may make it hard to get them started, so that's another consideration.
Got your email also....the project has been in limbo for a while since I haven't driven the trucks very much since the cross country trip.
About the valves, I decided on motorized valves for the 8x8 so that they stay open or closed if/when power is cut.
I'm leaning towards using electric heat for tank heating, since the fuel basically is self heating while driving and I don't like to rob heat from the engine while it is warming up as well. Some of the fuel lines are now electrically heated on the 8x8.
After an hour or so on the road, the fuel temp stabilized at 120 to 125 °F, which is enough for biodiesel and VO/diesel mix and that was without any heating except from the return fuel.
Copper works well, but stainless or aluminum is probably better for the long term.
I also want to get away from using used VO, which is acid and has left a residue in the fuel tank....
As you can see, I don't have any good answers for you, the percentage of veggie oil and/or biodiesel will depend on the length of the trip, higher for long trips and smaller for short trips.
Another observation, when using the dual tank system it's almost impossible to completely flush the filters when switching and the diesel tank will end up with some small percentage of bio fuels. When the truck is fitted with fuel burning heaters, any contamination of the pure diesel may make it hard to get them started, so that's another consideration.