how to tell sprag or air?

[DeuceNewbie]

picked up my deuce today and did not expect the steering to be as difficult as it was. it got me thinking is the front axle engaged? i checked the tm but could not track any firm answer down so i figured i would ask the experts. how does the font axle engage? is it a sprag? how do i tell? i have one lever...when switched to the right you can hear the air "pop off" ...no sound when switched to the right and no indicator..is this the air switch or have something to do with the fording kit? also sadly enough the headlights look brand new but wont work...any ideas?

thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

That little lever is for the front axle engage. Left to engage, right to disengage. The steering is hard because you have manual steering (aka Armstrong steering) on a big heavy truck.

Advice? Either start working out or get an air assist kit.

 

[Speddmon]

My best advice I could give would be to read the darned TM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the switches and gauges are spelled out and shown in the -10 and had that manual been read, there would be no question about whether it was a sprag or not.

I don't mean to sound like an a$$, but you just bought and are driving a 13000 pound hunk of rolling death, with a single circuit braking system and you can't tell if the front axle is engaged or not??????????

 

[DeuceNewbie]

oh boy..........we all know how clear the manual is the first go around...i dont feel i was unsafe at any time during the recovery ...maybe my post was mis-read..i was sure that it was not engaged while travelling back not sure if this lever actuates the Fording kit or both or axle...so on..please refer to tm9-2320-361-10 page 2-3 item 19 which indiactes fron wheel drive lever then turn to page 2-26....item 4 deep water fording kit valve...

 

[Floridianson]

Also the Air Solenoid's do stick, they come apart with 4 long bolts, there is sometimes corrosion in there clean up bore with some super fine sandpaper like 1500grit, lube with some white lithium and put back together,

You make it sound like they come compleatly apart with out any trouble?
Don't rember that. Maybe when the TC is out?

 

[DeuceNewbie]

oh and thanks for the gym reference.....i gotta kick out of that one! i can see the need for air assist!

 

[stumps]

Usually, if a 4/6 wheel drive vehicle has its front axle engaged on hard pavement it will start to buck and the tires will skip and chirp. This is because turns invariably make the front axle turn at a slightly different rate than the rear axles, and since they are hard coupled to each other, the tires have no choice but to skid to make up for the difference. On a deuce, your rear tires will do this in every turn. This is because they are always hard coupled to each other.

The steering on a deuce is tough. The best way you can make it less tough is to never try to turn the wheel when the deuce isn't moving. First gear, idle, is generally a good place to do your tight maneuvering. If you find that is still to fast, flip the transfer case into low, and you will really be creeping at idle. Some motion is essential when turning a deuce.

Also, it takes a whole lot of rotations of the steering wheel to make a sharp turn. Go slow, and get started early. If you release your grip on the steering wheel, and you are moving, it will naturally spin back to center... really quickly. Don't do this! The wheel's spokes can really hurt you. Keep enough grip on the wheel as it spins back to control the rotation. Oh, and don't use your thumbs to grip the wheel, keep them on the outside. Your thumbs will thank you.

-Chuck

 

[Capt.Marion]

If I recall correctly, having the front axle engaged does not make much of a difference at all with steering.

Make sure your front tires are aired up (I keep mine at 55), and remember you are dragging around two sets of duals behind you. If you have a lever/toggle switch under the dash with an indicator light immediately beneath it (usually labeled as "Front Axle" or something like that) you have an airshift transfer case.

Regardless, if the truck ain't moving at more than a walking pace, it ain't gonna steer.

 

[Speddmon]

oh boy..........we all know how clear the manual is the first go around...i dont feel i was unsafe at any time during the recovery ...maybe my post was mis-read..i was sure that it was not engaged while travelling back not sure if this lever actuates the Fording kit or both or axle...so on..please refer to tm9-2320-361-10 page 2-3 item 19 which indiactes fron wheel drive lever then turn to page 2-26....item 4 deep water fording kit valve...

I never said you were being unsafe, or that the manuals are clear...I can see in the manual you are referencing (probably dated September 1980) how you can become confused...it's a misprint. The updated manual dated December 1988 in Work Package 0037 explains the fording kit operation, and shows the correct lever for the kit installed beside the front axle lever. See the attached pictures...I believe the first one is from the TM you were referencing, and the second one is from the updated TM

Again, I hated to sound like an a$$, it wasn't all that long ago that I was just like a lot of the people answering these questions, thinking..."hey give a new guy a break" But after the same simple questions get asked over and over again (not that yours falls into that particular category), and could have been answered after 5 minutes using the search function or scanning the TM, it get's frustrating. Yours is not one of the many repetitive questions, but it has been covered before. These results took me about 10 minutes to find, but I was only looking for ones with pictures of the switch for an example.

It's gotten to the point that I skip past many of these kinds of posts and a whole lot of people with WAY more experience than I do are doing the same thing, and because of that a lot of good people with vast amounts of experience are not posting advice or information, because they are getting tired of it...it's a shame. I'm not bashing you or trying to run you down, I'm just trying to explain to the best of my ability, why you will get some of the answers you do. And after you've scanned enough new posts asking for the gazillionth time "how do I check the brake fluid" on a very large truck that can kill anything in it's path with no brakes (and people are out driving these things, but can't even check the da*n brake fluid), you can hopefully see why people get edgy.

GL pics and spotting an air shift axle

Question about airshift

Does this mean my truck is air shift?

Air shift transfer case rebuild and related questions

 

[BugEyeBear]

My best advice I could give would be to read the darned TM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the switches and gauges are spelled out and shown in the -10 and had that manual been read, there would be no question about whether it was a sprag or not.

I don't mean to sound like an a$$, but you just bought and are driving a 13000 pound hunk of rolling death, with a single circuit braking system and you can't tell if the front axle is engaged or not??????????

Wow "Speddmon"!
Were we having a bad day when you 1st responded?!?
Too much caffeine that day?!?

Let ME be the 1st to say, "Give him a break!".
After all, his SS-ID IS "DeuceNewbie", so it is completely understandable that he might not be 100% comfortable with the search function, or the correct terms to use in a search, or simply couldn't find the pertinent section of the appropriate TM.

And we all know that the TMs are frequently unclear, or occasionally contradictory, or don't reflect current technology. So asking SS members for clarification or confirmation is understandable.

YOU DID later respond with pertinent links and helpful information (THANKS for that!), but IMHO you could have skipped the initial POUNDING!

Remember that we ALL were "newbies" at one time.
Let's not scare off new Deuce owners by being overly aggresive when they ask a question that has already been covered.
We ALL have asked a question or 2 that has been covered before.
Better that they ASK an "obvious" question & get the correct answer here than just GUESS or ASSUME and possibly break something, or get into trouble on the road!


************************************************************


"DeuceNewbie", Welcome to the SS forum!
You'll find TONS of useful info here, and get lots of help from people with years of experience with these vehicles.
Good to see that you have "thick skin", as it occasionally is required to fend off some responses & opinions.

Deuce Steering DOES require extra effort. Keeping the truck moving (even slightly) helps significantly. But the extra excercise will help you later when you are trying to loosen rusted bolts!!

OH, & pictures ALMOST ALWAYS help to describe your issue & get you an appropriate answer quicker!

Again, "WELCOME to SS!!"

 

[roscoe]

I prefer the manual steering. It keeps things interesting. The basic no frills aspect is one of the things I like most about my trucks. Take your truck out into a field and drive it with the switch on and off and you will feel the difference in the steering.

 

[DeuceNewbie]

I really do appreciate everyone's help! and thanks speddmon for postin the links and the clarification of the misprinted manual i definately have not gotten the hang of the search function yet (and maybe never will).

 

[Lifer]

I would have enjoyed driving a deuce like the one he just bought while I was still in the AF. None of the deuces assigned to my unit had power steering OR air-shift t-cases. Manual stuff all the way, but I loved every second I spent behind the wheel on those "beasts." The only complaint I ever had was when I had to drive one of the turbo "screamers." We did not have ear protection because HQ felt that using it would be detrimental to safety while driving.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

November 19th, 2009.

Dear Deuce Newbie:

It must be nice to have a deuce with a fording kit applied..... they seem to be fairly rare. The knobs on your truck for the fording kit are different then the air shift lever which is right in front of the shifter. When the FWD is engaged on soft surfaces (or slippery surfaces) you will notice a slight tendancy to have "Traction bump" occur in the steering. This is where the front wheels are actually trying to pull the front end around in a tight turn, they might also do it on uneven surfaces.
Be sure to have your steering wheel under control, and on rough roads and terrain....
DON'T wrap your thumbs around the wheel rim inside the outer circumference, if you do and the truck hits something that makes it want to take the wheel away from you... well your thumbs won't stop the spin, but they will get banged up. My deuce was recently fitted with an Air-O-Matic assist kit, and I wouldn't have a truck without it, as it eases the work at low speed and enables on to better control the truck on rough roads and terrain. Kudos to BrianBull for the kits.....
If you're really lucky, you may find that your deuce is a very even tempered reliable truck like mine is, I prefer to drive it whenever I can as it rides better then my wife's Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, and I feel fairly safe around the Texas kamikaze drivers.....

Good luck and happy motoring,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[800summit]

Do any of your red dash lights work? Maybe you could exchange the highbeam indicator light with the axle engauge light, and see if it is a burned out light .
If you need help dont be afraid to ask. We are all here because we have a passion for these big green machines.

 

[Speddmon]

I really do appreciate everyone's help! and thanks speddmon for postin the links and the clarification of the misprinted manual i definately have not gotten the hang of the search function yet (and maybe never will).

I will be the first to admit that the search function of this forum is not the most helpful or user friendly thing at times, but it is useful.

Wow "Speddmon"!
Were we having a bad day when you 1st responded?!?
Too much caffeine that day?!?

No, it wasn't too much caffeine yesterday, it was seeing one too many "dangerous" posts, and I had to say something.

I didn't intend to blast DeuceNewbie like that, but the newer members (yes, I'm still a newer member myself) have to start to realize how hurtful some of these posts can be to the hobby in general (DeuceNewbie, not yours...i'm refering to others now)

Look back though a few months and you can find a huge thread about a member being questioned by the feds about SS...they are keeping tabs on this site, whether anybody wants to believe it or not. About the same time, Wisconsin DOT is taking steps to outlaw all MV's on Wisconsin highways...and they still are in a mess over that. Flash forward a month or two, and you can find a post about a member driving a deuce 700 MILES home on a recovery with NO BRAKES!!!!! How dumb is that????? Then just within the last week or two, a member asks...How do I check my brake fluid? This guy has been driving a deuce, recovered it or whatever, and can't even check his brake fluid????????

I'm sorry, but stuff like that is just plain stupid and could have been answered by just reading the darned manual. I like my hobby, and driving my truck around, and I don't want to give anybody a reason to take it away from me. I could have been a little more tactful, but people need to start waking up and realizing that you're not driving a little Ford Focus here...you're piloting 13000 (thats 13 THOUSAND) pounds of steel down the highway, and lord forbid if something bad would happen...people can die. These trucks are not a typical passenger vehicle, and the typical rules and thought processes do not always apply here. The same arguments that the Wisconsin DOT is using can just as easliy be applied to any state in the union.....I just want people to think a little more.

 

[BugEyeBear]

I AGREE that we all need to remember that these are 13000lb vehicles.
GOOD POINT!

I'm thankful that this SS site is here to better educate owners on the proper care & use of these vehicles.

This helps to keep the roads safe for everyone!!

(Unfortunately we can't expect to reach everyone, and we can't control the actions of those who choose to ignore good advice. There will ALWAYS be a few people out there who are reckless. I only hope that the regulating authorities recognize this fact also, by punishing just the offenders & not the rest of us.)

 

[clpo]

You know, some of you guys seem to be doing your best to drive people away, off of, out of the hobby with your angry posts, snaps at us new guys, snipes, jabs. Take a valium. If you don't want to answer a legit question, then don't. And don't get on your soap box and slam someone for asking. There was a day when you did not know it all and I guarantee you did not learn everything by using the search function. Maybe we need to start a forum for new steelsoldiers so that all us neophytes can have a place to disuss our stuff and only those kind and wise members that are willing to help should go there. Geez, lighten up. You might just need some help some day. Just becaue the guy has not memorized the TM does not mean he is not a safe driver or can't handle a big rig.

End of rant until next time.

 

[bassetdeuce]

picked up my deuce today and did not expect the steering to be as difficult as it was. it got me thinking is the front axle engaged? i checked the tm but could not track any firm answer down so i figured i would ask the experts. how does the font axle engage? is it a sprag? how do i tell? i have one lever...when switched to the right you can hear the air "pop off" ...no sound when switched to the right and no indicator..is this the air switch or have something to do with the fording kit? also sadly enough the headlights look brand new but wont work...any ideas?

thanks in advance for any help!

I air up my fronts to 70psi, front end unlocked. This seems to give me easy steering unless I'm at a crawl. Also, since I had a very leaky steering gearbox, I replaced my steering box lube oil with a tube of John Deere cornhead grease and it seemed to improve even more. Just remember, when you go over rough terrain, keep your thumbs and fingers out of the steering wheel spokes because this type of manual steering can have vicious kickback that will sprain your digits.

 

[mudguppy]

You know, some of you guys seem to be doing your best to drive people away, off of, out of the hobby with your angry posts, snaps at us new guys, snipes, jabs. Take a valium. If you don't want to answer a legit question, then don't. And don't get on your soap box and slam someone for asking. There was a day when you did not know it all and I guarantee you did not learn everything by using the search function. Maybe we need to start a forum for new steelsoldiers so that all us neophytes can have a place to disuss our stuff and only those kind and wise members that are willing to help should go there. Geez, lighten up. You might just need some help some day. Just becaue the guy has not memorized the TM does not mean he is not a safe driver or can't handle a big rig.

End of rant until next time.

after pirate4x4, this is the most newb-unfriendly forum that i've ever seen. there's some real good folks on here, but there's a lot of "my way or you're wrong" types on here that makes it quite embarrassing to be a part of when a new member is bashed for not using the antiquated search funtion that doesn't work all that well or wading through 300 TMs (arranged in no particular order to a new member) to find the 'right 20' that apply to your new vehicle and haven't yet memorized every word.

i love the "i won't answer your question until you fix [what i percieve is] a safety issue" responses.

but, it seems as though the OP has some thick skin and can recognize judgemental old codgers when he sees them and takes them for what they are. thankfully, others were kind enough to help him out and i hope he'll stick around - we need more level-headed guys around here.

i'm real interested to see what he finds about his front-drive issue. it seems odd that either the front axle or transfer would just 'go out', so hopefully it's just something silly. but sharing this issue and solution should bring more knowledge to the community - at least, that's what i intend to take away.