If you own an M35 you need this!

[m-35tom]

when you make a turn the spiders will turn but no more than they would in a 'normal' situation. when you are going straight there is usually some very small creep as the spiders equalize the speed of one side vs the other.

 

[TacticalTruck]

ok, nothing like a little tractor time to get your thoughts together.
tom, i'm with you on the torque loading of the suspension system but i'd still want to test it by trying the locking hub on each axle, now back to the spider gears.
we are trying to determine if the spider gears are turning.
when do the spider gears turn? the spider gears turn relative to the difference in rpms of the two axle shafts reguardless of the speed of the carrier.
what is the speed of each axle shaft or what are the forces acting on each axle shaft?
the connected axle shaft turns at the same rpms as the wheel it is connected to.
the disconnected axle is not connected to the other wheel so it does not care if you are turning or if the tire is of different diameter because it is not connect to the tire. it has mass and if you start from rest its mass wants to stay at rest. it is still connected to the spider gears so they will act on the disconnected axle. my question is can the force applied through the spider gear system (drag or resistence in the system) generate enough torque to get the disconnected axle up to match the speed of the connected axle and thereby slow the spider gears down?
Jeff

 

[Elwenil]

It seems to me that the only time the spider gears would be turning would be when the vehicle is in a turn. If the drive line goes straight through the first axle and then the rear axle driving the vehicle the one remaining connected wheel and hub on the front rear would be driven by the roads surface and not by the axle shaft. Since they would all be turning at the same relative speed (providing the tires are the same diameter) then the effect on the spider gears would be minimal. With one side of a open differential axle unconnected, the remaining axle and spiders "free-wheel" and have no force against them other than the road turning the tire. With both rears spinning at the same speed, there would be no need for the differential action of the spider gears unless executing a turn. The only scenario I can see where there would be a problem is when the tires are of a different diameter between the rears or if for some reason the hub with the remaining connected axle were to be chained up so it no longer contacted the road. I think that's about right. Any comments?

 

[TacticalTruck]

Be sure to pay attention to the difference when i say axle assembly or axle shaft. each axle assembly has two axle shafts. i only care about what is going on inside the one axle assembly with one of it's axle shafts disconeccted. the carrier in that axle assembly can't tell if you are turning or if the tires are of different diameter because it is only connected to one wheel. the spiders in that axle assembly only react to the difference in speed of the two axle shafts in that axle assembly, one connected to the wheel, one floating.
jeff

 

[oifvet]

Still sitting here with a phone in one hand and a credit card in the other, (not literally). Let me just throw a quick question into this, (again, talking about putting the lock-out on the left (driver's) side of the forward dual). Could one put a locking hub on the other side of the same axle as well? A lock-out hub on each side of the same axle. Now, the driver would have to lock/unlock two wheels on the same axle when needed. I'm a novice to diffs, but have a "basic" understanding. This still might qualify as a dumb question either way, but I have to ask. You guys know your stuff. I appreciate the education. Do have mercy if the answer is obvious or elementary.

 

[Recovry4x4]

maybe that spimplification will help. If both axle shaft were removed from that one axle but the carrier was spinning, would the spiders and axles gears be turning? Answer is no. Now if there was an axle in one side and it was turning at the same speed as the carrier the spiders would still be neutral. Lets go even simpler and picture a differential in your head. You have the carrier case, 2 axle gears and 2 (or 4) spider gears. If you put an axle in the axle gear and spin it, the spider will spin. If you spin the axle gear and the carrier at the same speed, the spiders won't move, they can't because the axle gear is spinning the same speed as the carrier. Back to the deuce. The carrier with 2 axle shafts is spinning at a specific RPM to manitain a specific road speed. Consequently the carrier with only one axle is also spinning at that same RPM. That one remaining axle is also spinning at the same speed. If the carrier is spinning at the same RPM as the axle gear, the spiders have no need nor can they do any differentiation. Here is a weird simple test one can do to cofirm what I'm saying. Take one pair of tires from any rear axle of a deuce and chain them up to the frame. Have someone drive the truck. The suspended tires will turn at the same RPM as the other 3 pairs of tires on the ground. I would do the test and post video but I have no way to upload video here. I'm struggling to get it into words but I'll guarantee I'm right.

 

[m-35tom]

you're right kenny. but if you put two locking hubs on one axle all kinds of things could happen because you have removed the control rpm from one side gear. if the carrier and one diff side gear turn the same speed, there can be no motion of spidergears or the other side gear. they are gears and are meshed togerther.

jeff, you have three variables in a diff. the two side gears connected to each axle shaft and the carrier. if any two turn the same speed the third has to turn the same speed also.

 

[jwaller]

Still sitting here with a phone in one hand and a credit card in the other, (not literally). Let me just throw a quick question into this, (again, talking about putting the lock-out on the left (driver's) side of the forward dual). Could one put a locking hub on the other side of the same axle as well? A lock-out hub on each side of the same axle. Now, the driver would have to lock/unlock two wheels on the same axle when needed. I'm a novice to diffs, but have a "basic" understanding. This still might qualify as a dumb question either way, but I have to ask. You guys know your stuff. I appreciate the education. Do have mercy if the answer is obvious or elementary.

you could put lockouts on both sides of the forward tandem but theres no reason. you will spend 2 ties the $$ for NO benefit.

 

[TacticalTruck]

OK, I'm a gearically challenged. I finally got it. You guys are now, to me, obviously correct. I remembered I have a loose chevy carrier with axle and spider gears and I went to look at it. The spiders will not turn and you only need ONE lockout hub on the middle rear. The point i was missing was that the connected axle shaft is forced to spin with the carrier because they are connected thru the other axle and the ground. since they are locked together the disconnected axle is forced to turn. another way to look at it would be if you welded one axle gear to the carrier the other is forced to spin with it.
So, in the end, the only thing the lock out hub is doing is relieving wind up. Everything is still turning.
Jeff

 

[oifvet]

Alright! I'm dialing the phone, (not literally yet ), and ordering up one Ouverson locking hub and one double-splined axle!
Thanks to you guys, I went from to just like that! Thanks!!

 

[jwaller]

Alright! I'm dialing the phone, (not literally yet ), and ordering up one Ouverson locking hub and one double-splined axle!
Thanks to you guys, I went from to just like that! Thanks!!

you will not be sorry. It's one of those 15 min mods that you will not regret.

 

[m-35tom]

now i need a hub and axle for the larger m621 axles. 1 5/8 19 spline as i remember.

 

[dabtl]

Alright! I'm dialing the phone, (not literally yet ), and ordering up one Ouverson locking hub and one double-splined axle!
Thanks to you guys, I went from to just like that! Thanks!!

OK, who did you order if from and what did it cost?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Tom, I'd almost guarantee Randy Ouverson could set you up. He also makes a 2" axle shaft and 2" hubs for the deuces.

 

[TacticalTruck]

Chuck's trucks may also be able to help you on the 19 spline axle. he called me about them once because they are used in the commando.
jeff

 

[oifvet]

Alright! I'm dialing the phone, (not literally yet ), and ordering up one Ouverson locking hub and one double-splined axle!
Thanks to you guys, I went from to just like that! Thanks!!

OK, who did you order if from and what did it cost?

I don't have the figures available to me right now, nor the permission to post, but devilman96 was able to steer me in the right direction.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Links to vendors are A OK. Feel free to link to any vendor site. Links to current auctions are what is prohibited. ODIron will be handling the Ouveson line of parts including the hubs and doule splined axle shafts. Those that really want to brutify your ride, Randy also has 2" axle shafts and lockers.

 

[tm america]

actually the spider gear wouldnt be moving any more than they normally would since the driveshaft would still be turning the diff at the same speed as the other wheels you would just take the load off it dodge and chevy do the same thing on their 4x4 trucks in the front diff i dont think ive seen any spider gear problems on them even though the spiders are turning any time you turn remember they are only moving while you are turning and not that fast since they only take up the speed difference from side to side

 

[tm america]

great idea with only doing one axle you could get two hubs and two axles put one on the front and one on the rear and then you coud pick which one you want to disengage

 

[mbwarner]

The ring gear will be turned by the pinion. The standard axle will be turning at about the ring gear speed. The question boils down to: will the disconnected axle turn at approximately the same speed as the ring gear on one end and the disconnected lockout on the other, or will the disconnected axle be stationary, which will cause the spiders to scream.

I'm inclined to think that the disconnected axle will "idle" at about the same speed as the ring gear and lockout hub, but it would make for an interesting test.