Just did the Doghead conversion… but

[roveroverme]

Back up and slow down here. I asked you which wires you disconnected because you posted that you disconnected them when you changed the relay.

Now you say you did it because it does not start. That is conflicting info.


You need to slow down and state the facts as we ask for info.

It may be time to start over 100%.

Ok backing up
I disconnected the batteries when I did the relay conversion.
those are the wires I was referring to.
I reconnected the batteries
and tried to start the truck
the glow plugs cycle
i turn on the key- nothing happens
current goes down

disconnected the starter took it out and cleaned and tested. works fine
reconnected the starter after installation
nothing

tested the Relay, works
tested for power at the port. verified.
tested for power at starter verified.

now I am going to test your last suggestions.

 

[doghead]

disconnected the starter took it out and cleaned and tested. works fine

The way I read your post was, you put power to the starter motor and it spun.
Also, you put power to the solenoid and it clicked.

You did not connect batterypower to the starter solenoid(large battery cable terminal), then connect power to the small terminal(like the key switch does) and test the starter operation as it functions on the truck.

Is this correct?

 

[doghead]

I edited post #37. Please be sure you test as it says now.

 

[dougco1]

The truck was running before. I got a New Napa relay and wired it like in the conversion thread.
When I reconnect the battery and turn to start the truck all it does is that the lights go dim. the relay clicks , the voltage on the voltmeter drops to yellow.
no turning over of the starter. When I release the key the voltage comes back on. I can hear the relay click. There is voltage going in.
Can I jump the relay from one fat 24v post to the other on the relay? and when I do that shouldn't it turn the starter?

Has anyone suggested to check the integrity of your batteries (load test) . If you have a dead cell in one of the batteries the starting symptoms are virtually the same as you described. Some times it could be the simple things that you over look that causes a lot of confusing discussions.

 

[roveroverme]

Hey, roverme, just an observatkion, which I hope will be helpful. I've noticed you tend to jump around a lot. Often folks will ask a question, and you go on to the next thing without answering it. For example, Warthog asked some specifics about that "strap", or whatever it is:
WHile I was trying to fix my truck , I was looking here for answers. That's how it seemed that I jump around. I missed the question about the strap in all the excitement. and I found out in the end it wasn't a strap at all but one of those wire clamps it was bet open , maybe when they worked on the starter and then fell off when I messed with it. Maybe they shortened it out in its lifetime, maybe that's why the ends were melted.
To me it was funny why they would not use a wire or a braided band… a stiff piece of metal seemed to me a bit weird. But I don't know the CUCV's.





And your next response is this:



See? You never answered his questions about the strap. Instead, you are running on ahead.

This is why doghead is asking you to slow down. People are trying to help, but it's difficult when you:

1. Don't answer questions, or don't answer them fully.
2. Leave out important info.
3. Jump ahead when people are trying to walk you through a problem.

I'm not dogging on you - just trying to help you get the help you need.

WHile I was trying to fix my truck , I was looking here for answers. That's how it seemed that I jump around. I missed the question about the strap in all the excitement. and I found out in the end it wasn't a strap at all but one of those wire clamps it was bet open , maybe when they worked on the starter and then fell off when I messed with it. Maybe they shortened it out in its lifetime, maybe that's why the ends were melted.
To me it was funny why they would not use a wire or a braided band… a stiff piece of metal seemed to me a bit weird. But I don't know the CUCV's.

 

[roveroverme]

The way I read your post was, you put power to the starter motor and it spun.
Also, you put power to the solenoid and it clicked.

You did not connect batterypower to the starter solenoid(large battery cable terminal), then connect power to the small terminal(like the key switch does) and test the starter operation as it functions on the truck.

Is this correct?

Yes, correct.
what I have done however is to take the starter out and then connect it to a set of batteries.
i hooked up the battery wire with a jumper cable, then a smaller wire with two alligator clips and that I connected to the solenoid switch plus and the battery plus.

What I did find out is that the starter was somehow shorting out. I noticed the bolt , that holds the fork together, which moved the starter dive gear forward was almost all the way out.
so the Solenoid was kind of jammed and maybe had an open circuit then??? I don't really know.
All I know is , when I turned the Key, the truck behaved as if there was a huge short, or a ground problem.
The relay worked fine
As did the wiring to the starter. I tested it the way you asked me to, Doghead. and it all checked out.

 

[roveroverme]

So, you tested the relay?
Yes , I tested the relay and it works and so did the wiring

And there was 24 volts on the big purple wire with the key in the start position? Was the starter connected when you did this test?
I bench tested the starter and then put it back in and tested the Purple wire with key in start position. 24v confirmed

As I said before, pull the purple wire off the starter and test for voltage again.

I actually just pulled the wire of the starter and tested it that way
With the key off, and the wire removed from the starter solenoid, test for continuity between the purple wire and ground.
continuity was confirmed
Also, with the purple wire removed from the starter, if you jump 24 volts to the terminal that the purple wire was on, will the starter crank?
-At first it didn't, only the solenoid clicked, once it removed the starter again and tested the solenoid I noticed the dangling bolt and put it back properly
before putting the starter back together. (why am I typing green all over sudden?)

 

[roveroverme]

So here is my conclusion.
first off , Whether you replace the relay or buy a new one is up to you. These trucks lasted a very long time with that design. I say a very long time, and here comes a clue I want to get to in a minute.

My relay had what I believe to be the early stage of a catastrophic failure. There is a resistor installed and with age these things fail. it overheated blew apart and melted the wiring or was connected with.
My relay does not have any melted pads, but that would be the next step. Everytime the Relay would be used in this configuration (without the resistor functioning) there is a surge when the relay opens the contact.
with every time that happens there will be material transferred from one pole to the other. until the pads of the relay switch make a constant contact and fuse together.

This Ford starter relay seems to me a much more beefed up design than the GM relay was. I assume it is as beefy , as it doesn't have the resistor inside.
Now if you buy the beefy part or stick with a new GM relay is up to you.
I personally would tend toward the GM part. Just for the fact that it is easier to troubleshoot an problem.
Would I do this whole thing again, I would probably leave a little bit more wire on the pig tail, as I was tempted today to just put the old relay back and see if that would change anything.

I looked around in my garage and found some caps that came with a Power steering hose , I have replaced. They fit perfectly over the large posts and covered the nuts
They are to be honest the only ones I was really worried about. But I will put some electrical tape on the 12v switch + as well.

 

[dougco1]

So here is my conclusion.
first off , Whether you replace the relay or buy a new one is up to you. These trucks lasted a very long time with that design. I say a very long time, and here comes a clue I want to get to in a minute.

My relay had what I believe to be the early stage of a catastrophic failure. There is a resistor installed and with age these things fail. it overheated blew apart and melted the wiring or was connected with.
My relay does not have any melted pads, but that would be the next step. Everytime the Relay would be used in this configuration (without the resistor functioning) there is a surge when the relay opens the contact.
with every time that happens there will be material transferred from one pole to the other. until the pads of the relay switch make a constant contact and fuse together.

This Ford starter relay seems to me a much more beefed up design than the GM relay was. I assume it is as beefy , as it doesn't have the resistor inside.
Now if you buy the beefy part or stick with a new GM relay is up to you.
I personally would tend toward the GM part. Just for the fact that it is easier to troubleshoot an problem.
Would I do this whole thing again, I would probably leave a little bit more wire on the pig tail, as I was tempted today to just put the old relay back and see if that would change anything.

I looked around in my garage and found some caps that came with a Power steering hose , I have replaced. They fit perfectly over the large posts and covered the nuts
They are to be honest the only ones I was really worried about. But I will put some electrical tape on the 12v switch + as well.

Did you conclude if the truck starts now?

 

[roveroverme]

yes, truck starts now.
I thought it was kind of obvious, since I stopped going on about what the cause could be.

 

[tmbrown08]

So what did you conclude was the problem?

 

[roveroverme]

So what did you conclude was the problem?

the starter was somehow shorting out.
I noticed the bolt , that holds the fork together, which moved the starter dive gear forward was almost all the way out.
so the Solenoid was kind of jammed and maybe had an open circuit then??? I don't really know. But it's working now. Knock on wood.

 

[tmbrown08]

Wow definitely wouldn't have thought that that little bolt would have had anything to do with the electrical. Well atleast its working now! Those little things can be pretty frustrating. I had some electrical issues with my starter on my truck too. Drove me nuts!!!!

 

[roveroverme]

What killed me was, that there was no indication of anything going wrong.
I disconnected the batteries, did the install of the relay, connected the batteries and then nothing.
Usually if something goes wrong you get a noise that might come along with the 'mysterious blue smoke'
and you know, once you released the 'mysterious blue smoke' electronics don't work anymore.
I would never have thought that this huge result was caused by that missing nut.

 

[cpf240]

Just and observation, but that is not a resistor in the stock starter relay, it is a diode. I believe its purpose is to prevent feedback of the current generated when the relay is disengaged and the magnetic field in its coil collapses.