M1123 Purchase and Build Thread - Virginia

[MaverickH1]

Okay... so I'm hoping the mods understand this is a different topic than other M998/M1038 HMMWV threads because I will discuss titling... I messaged Warthog and got no response, and I just received another PM question about an M1123 from another gentleman in VA.

The goal of this thread is to help alleviate some of the anxiety that might be felt when buying one of these trucks. Hopefully if someone Googles "M1123" when they're thinking of buying one, this thread will be where they land.

Background:

The M1123 trucks being sold on GovPlanet are sold under a different contract than the typical M998 and M1038 trucks. For comparison, the M998/M1038 trucks number about 4500 trucks sold on GovPlanet. The M1123 trucks have sold... 10? This is not an accurate number because it is possible for the truck auctions to be privatized after completion. There are many more being auctioned off now.

Every M998 and M1038 is sold with the ever famous "Off Road Use Only" restriction. There are the rare ones that were sold before GovPlanet that don't have the restriction. There are private auctions on GovPlanet every now and then that don't have the restriction NOW but did have it when the truck was initially sold. It would be impossible for me in VA to buy a military contracted sale M998/M1038 from GovPlanet and title/register it. We are not talking about those trucks or anything related to them. Those trucks (as I understand it), are former Army and supposedly some Air Force trucks.

The M1123 trucks are former Marine Corps vehicles. It was about 4 months ago that I realized the M1123 trucks did NOT show "OFF ROAD USE ONLY" in the Notices and Restrictions portion of the GovPlanet auction. Upon further questions, I was informed by GovPlanet that these trucks would actually come with a CLEAN SF97 (also specified in the auction) and that they did not have the Off Road Use Only restriction. In fact, I was promised a clear Georgia title.

I called the VA DMV, and they confirmed that what I was saying was true. They looked at Virginia Code and verified that the Humvee was not named or similar in spirit to the definition of "Off Road Vehicle" in the state of VA as well. Therefore the only thing restricting the road legal use of a Humvee was the "Off Road Use Only" restriction on other Humvees.

Purchase

My bid for the M1123 did not meet the reserve. I was called after the auction ended and talked to the customer service rep and I ended up deciding to sell some other things in my life to meet the reserve. We agreed and he removed the auction from public viewing. I can still see it in my BUYING section on GovPlanet. When I went to the CHECKOUT area, the only options for paperwork were a Bill of Sale or an SF97. Since I needed a GA title, I called GovPlanet again and was assured I would get one and that I could pay for it later, so I wired the Invoice amount to GovPlanet.

Fees - You will have your purchase price. Plus the 10% transaction fee. Plus GA state tax. Plus the local GA county sales tax. In my case, there might also be Virginia sales tax. I'm not sure at the moment.

Then came the End Use Certificate. Submitted on 8/17, pending 8/23, currently waiting to see when it will be approved. As of this writing I am just past week 8. See the EUC approval thread.

I stopped by my VA DMV to get my old motorcycle back on the road and started inquiring about the Humvee situation, as we all know a phone call to the DMV headquarters in Richmond will get different answers than a visit to the local DMV. I was informed that there would be no special process for getting it registered. The VIN would be decided by what's on the Georgia title, which I expect will be something like the 6 digit serial number. In any case, they made it sound like it wasn't a big deal at all.

So it looks like I'm just waiting for the EUC to clear... and then for GovPlanet to send me the title (which should take a month), titling/registering the M1123 and then starting the process for it to pass VA inspection. I have already called the Albany, GA location to see if there's anything I should do in preparation for pick-up, and they simply recommended that I call them ahead of time and they'll pull the Humvee around to the front when I get there.

Something to note... if you call someone at GovPlanet, they might have no idea that the M1123 trucks exist as a separate entity to the other M998/M1038 trucks. It is a small, small fraction of what they are used to. I got so many canned responses of "Sir, the Humvees only sell with an off-road use restriction" and I had to spend a bit of time on the phone with some of the agents and show them auction numbers and prove I was talking about something different. I was put on hold several times while they talked to someone higher up and usually came back with an apology. Be patient. These are rare-ish birds. They receive questions from people alllll dayyyy about Off Road Use Only Humvees.

It's a bit nerve racking to throw several thousand dollars into a bucket, then wait 3-4 months for the EUC to clear and get few answers about whether you can even drive the thing on the road with both the DMV and GovPlanet giving vague answers and refusing to put any definitive answers in written word so you can show them to someone later. I actually just audio recorded my conversation at the DMV for this reason.

-------

If this thread is allowed to exist... I'll add a section about what it took to get it to pass VA inspection in my emissions free locality, and details about picking the truck up and anything else that pops up... as well as my build updates as time goes on.

 

[Lionel]

Best to you on this purchase. Looks like a nice clean truck.

 

[Dallas911]

MaverickH1, thanks for posting - it will be fun to watch you put this truck together. Do you plan to convert to a 4 door? Have you thought about how you will mount the AC?

 

[MaverickH1]

MaverickH1, thanks for posting - it will be fun to watch you put this truck together. Do you plan to convert to a 4 door? Have you thought about how you will mount the AC?

A guy within 3 miles from me has several Humvees. One was a 2 door woodland camo truck, but the guy hates 2 doors and woodland camo. He took everything off and threw it in the corner and painted his truck tan. And ultimately he sold it to me for a great price. I will be finishing this as a 2 door soft top truck for starters.

When my family starts to expand beyond just my wife and our 2 dogs, the truck will change. I'm hoping to fabricate some components for it that might be part of the overall plan. I think this platform is amazing, and I'd love to help others make their trucks flexible like I want to do with mine.

As for the A/C system, I'm not sure. I can't have it on the roof because it would likely get ripped off on my heavily wooded property. And I don't plan on having a hard top for a while. I need to see just how much room it takes up. I might just end up selling it after I find out what parts are on it.

 

[Lionel]

Pretty sure I've seen some soft top (back curtain) brackets for the Red Dot AC units.

 

[MaverickH1]

Pretty sure I've seen some soft top (back curtain) brackets for the Red Dot AC units.

I've seen those as well, but there's really no way to do it that doesn't take away from the flexibility of the truck. At the moment I'm leaning towards selling it.

 

[MaverickH1]

Remember - We are not talking about how to title an Off Road Use Only truck in this thread

UPDATE - My EUC was approved today. Per the instruction of GovPlanet weeks ago, I called them immediately to ask them to get a certain person started on the clear GA title I was promised. I expected the conversation to last 5 minutes on my way to a celebratory lunch with my wife.

If lasted 30 minutes and ruined my celebratory lunch. The lady who answered the phone promptly told me that the truck will not come with a title at all, only a clean SF97. When I explained to her that I was promised by 3 separate employees that it WOULD come with a GA title, and that the Virginia DMV will not accept an SF97, she got very short with me and got an obvious attitude. At one point she said that a title costs them $1000 and they can't do it, to which I responded that I've spent $25,000+ on this truck (not including parts I have purchased to complete it) on the promise from 3 different employees that it would, and one of those employees said it would cost $150 extra and the last one I spoke with said it is actually included with these specific M1123 trucks. She didn't seem to care at all. I asked to speak to management. She forwarded me to voicemail. I hung up and called back because I wanted answers.

This time I got another lady who was much more patient and actually apologized for the misunderstandings. She holds the same opinion as the first lady that my options are:

1) Clean SF97
2) Off Road Use Only Montana Title

Neither of these documents get me what I need, and I made sure I'd get what I needed before I ever bid 3.5 months ago. She was at least understanding and didn't get an attitude. She is under the impression the 3 other employees were misinformed.

Needless to say... I'm absolutely livid right now. I see my Humvee dream collapsing the moment after it looked like it was becoming a reality and I'm hoping someone can swoop in and help. Message sent to JWade with a link to this thread.

 

[Lawdog734]

Aside from misinformed employees giving you bum-scoop on the whole GA title thing - what's the problem with a clean SF-97? That is a title after all and shouldn't be any more difficult than if you were going to register a deuce or any other vehicle that had one.

 

[MaverickH1]

Aside from misinformed employees giving you bum-scoop on the whole GA title thing - what's the problem with a clean SF-97? That is a title after all and shouldn't be any more difficult than if you were going to register a deuce or any other vehicle that had one.

It's my understanding that Virginia no longer accepts SF97s, and it is why I made sure this came with a clear GA title before I ever placed a bid 3.5 months ago.

 

[Jwade]

Remember - We are not talking about how to title an Off Road Use Only truck in this thread

UPDATE - My EUC was approved today. Per the instruction of GovPlanet weeks ago, I called them immediately to ask them to get a certain person started on the clear GA title I was promised. I expected the conversation to last 5 minutes on my way to a celebratory lunch with my wife.

If lasted 30 minutes and ruined my celebratory lunch. The lady who answered the phone promptly told me that the truck will not come with a title at all, only a clean SF97. When I explained to her that I was promised by 3 separate employees that it WOULD come with a GA title, and that the Virginia DMV will not accept an SF97, she got very short with me and got an obvious attitude. At one point she said that a title costs them $1000 and they can't do it, to which I responded that I've spent $25,000+ on this truck (not including parts I have purchased to complete it) on the promise from 3 different employees that it would, and one of those employees said it would cost $150 extra and the last one I spoke with said it is actually included with these specific M1123 trucks. She didn't seem to care at all. I asked to speak to management. She forwarded me to voicemail. I hung up and called back because I wanted answers.

This time I got another lady who was much more patient and actually apologized for the misunderstandings. She holds the same opinion as the first lady that my options are:

1) Clean SF97
2) Off Road Use Only Montana Title

Neither of these documents get me what I need, and I made sure I'd get what I needed before I ever bid 3.5 months ago. She was at least understanding and didn't get an attitude. She is under the impression the 3 other employees were misinformed.

Needless to say... I'm absolutely livid right now. I see my Humvee dream collapsing the moment after it looked like it was becoming a reality and I'm hoping someone can swoop in and help. Message sent to JWade with a link to this thread.

I'll get you squared away. We promised it at time of sale I'll make sure it is honored. We are not offering the GA title going forward due to the cost associated with producing them. Oh and for the record I just looked at my caller ID you should have left me a VM I had just went to the break room I would have called you back pretty quick. But I get so many calls if I don't get a VM I get to returning it when I can.

 

[MaverickH1]

I'll get you squared away. We promised it at time of sale I'll make sure it is honored. We are not offering the GA title going forward due to the cost associated with producing them.

I will update my post above and scratch that out as an option if that turns out to be the case. My goal with this thread was to help people wading into the M1123 field, so I don't want there to be any information in here that is incorrect or outdated.

As always, thank you very much for everything you do. You're an incredible resource here. Earlier today I was reading your posts in the early pages of the EUC wait thread and you provided a lot of great info and services to users. Truly amazing, and thank you again.

 

[Lionel]

I for one would give Jwade my complete trust having seen some of the things he's been able to make happen. I suspect I'll be in a similar boat as you on this when my EUC clears. I put my full faith in him. He is a mover and shaker.

 

[MaverickH1]

I agree, Lionel.

In other news... picked it up today. Left Roanoke, Virginia Wednesday night. Drove straight through to Albany, GA and arrived 10 hours later at 5 AM. Slept in the Cracker Barrel parking lot until the leaf blower brigade woke us up at 7:15. Went to the Humvee Rescue and Adoption Center at 8. It rolled right onto the trailer. Trailer was 81.5" wide between the fenders. Low tire pressure allowed the tires to morph right around the fenders.



We immediately drove back to VA and were home by 9 PM on Thursday. Now it's tucked into bed and ready for the real work to begin. More details to follow... but right now I'm too exhausted after drive the entire way.



A big thanks to the guys at the yard in Albany. They were very helpful and very efficient so I could get be on my way.

 

[Lionel]

Great to hear it's gone well so far.

 

[Lionel]

Any surprises? No time to go this week, so I'm having mine delivered next Saturday.

 

[MaverickH1]

Any surprises? No time to go this week, so I'm having mine delivered next Saturday.

I've been working on it non-stop since we arrived Thursday night. I actually ate a sandwich under it while draining transmission fluid. No new news on the title situation.

Things I've done to date:
- greased every grease fitting on the truck - when I drove it 150 feet to its parking spot after pulling it off the trailer everything felt very gritty. Lubing it up took that completely away, as suspected.
- engine oil and filter replaced - used M1-302 (from memory) Mobil1 filter which also fits any Chevrolet truck's 6.2 or 6.5. There was a copper looking washer that I reused because I didn't have another one, looks like it might be a slow leak due to that.
- drained transmission fluid and replaced - not a complete drainage, just with the drain plug. My truck has the 2nd generation of the 4L80E transmission with the drain plug recessed in the pan. Since I would have to do many other things to get the transmission filter out, I decided to delay the filter change. The oil was still nice and bright red when draining.
- Test drove it after doing those three things. Passed 3 different families out playing on a beautiful 70 degree day, and all of them stopped and waved. The little boys' mouths dropped open. It gave me chills. At one time I was a country boy in the middle of nowhere and I was hitting a baseball around on our 125 acres pretending to be Craig Biggio with my dog... and one ball went next to the road. I went over and reached down and grabbed it and when I stood back up a black Hummer H1 was going by. My mouth dropped open too... just like the kids in the neighborhood.
- When I got it back from my 1.5 mile test drive, I needed more working space so I added the tailgate. I had to drill two holes for the far upper left hooking bracket, the holes were marked with indentations or small holes that were "filled" by another aluminum panel behind them.
- Cleanup was next. I took three plastic totes and used one for trash, one for nuts/bolts/washers, and one for the twisting soft top securement hardware. While doing this, my father was with me and he also found maintenance logs under the driver's seat underneath the little glove box there.
- I troubleshot the headlights and found that both low beams didn't work. Thinking it was the switch, I found out it wasn't. Both headlights were bad and the low beams didn't work. On my next test drive the next day a high beam went out on the passenger side one. I'm not considering upgrading the electrical system. I think it's unnecessarily complicated. But I'll have to think that over more. The instrumentation lights also don't work but I haven't troubleshot that at all. For the life of me... I can't get the hazard lights to work either. I can't even figure out the turn signal, I'm assuming mine is seized up or something.
- There are a lot of plastic things on this truck that I didn't think would be there. Sitting out in the sun for years has taken its toll on a lot of it, like the instrumentation covers, the turn signal lever's internal light cover, the side view mirrors even appear to be plastic to me and are a little faded.
- I decided to install the windshield, so I cleaned the channel and tried to push it in. I started to think "this is a little too hard, maybe I should add a lubricant... but what lubricant should I add because something might chemically react with the aluminum and..." POP. Broke the windshield. I need to slow down on sensitive projects. :/ The next morning after thinking it over I tried again. I chipped out ALL sealant left in the windshield channels, I took 320 grit sandpaper to every edge, and then I took crocus cloth to every edge to make it very smooth. I then added silicone spray all over the seal. I started working it in slowly. I used plastic interior clip panel tools as light duty tire irons to slowly push the seal "wipers" into place. Slowly working around the windshield and adding lubricant any time I caught a snag ended up being the ticket. I think placed the center/outer/lower retainers in place and marked the camo pattern with a sharpie and spray painted them to match the existing truck paint pattern. After drying, I put them on.
- Last night I added the doors. I had to use a C-clamp to force the B pillar to line up with the holes for the soft door striker. I had to keep all bolts loose on the doors to get everything to line up.
- I added half of the twisting latch things that hold the soft top on, I only had half because that's all that was on the floor of the truck.
- I added the windshield former without securing it down completely, I need to get some weatherstripping foam to seal it up completely.
- I started removing the Red Dot A/C system and then found out it was still plumbed with permanent fittings, so I've put it up for sale here so the buyer can decide how those fittings are removed. If I progress much further, I'll have no choice but to just cut them because that A/C system is really in the way.
- It's having a lot of problems starting in cold weather (40 degrees in the morning). Yesterday it wouldn't start at all in the morning. I checked the cold advance circuit and everything was working as it should. I pressed the throttle to help the cold advance plunger but it didn't seem to do anything. Sometimes it takes a while to crank even when it's 70 degrees out. My next step will be to bleed the fuel lines as I suspect there is air in the system. I also plan on adding fresh diesel and a lot of sea foam to help clean it out. I think it will get better once it is used more often.
- The power steering system whines more than I think it should, but for the life of me I cannot find a power steering reservoir and fill cap. Is this a sealed system?

Um... I think that's all. I have pictures and will add them later. I did crawl up a dirt wall on my home construction site with ease... it's really amazing how well this machine handles these things. I can't wait to play more with it once it's mechanically ready.

 

[Lionel]

Sounds like you are really enjoying it so far. Driving around collecting "looks" is a ball. Get used to being saluted a lot too. Its weird, but cool. Best, L

 

[MaverickH1]

Sounds like you are really enjoying it so far. Driving around collecting "looks" is a ball. Get used to being saluted a lot too. Its weird, but cool. Best, L

I'm in the weird situation where I bought the truck for utility first. Not as a collector's piece or a status symbol or anything like that. I truly think it's the best truck for my situation and I plan to use it. It will be out and about quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if this truck ended up with 200,000 miles on it if it doesn't end up being completely cost prohibitive.

When I was towing it home I had three guys in $60,000 "off road" because-the-sticker-says-so black trucks with black tinted windows and weak low profile wheels painted black and LED eyebrows and such stop by and ask about it. And... I don't want that person having one of these trucks. I've followed Hummer H1s for 20 years, and there's something about this truck that disproportionately attracts people who RUIN trucks as far as I'm concerned, the types of people who use kevlar spray paint and then claim the truck has ballistic protection. The kind of people who think speed is how you're supposed to get over obstacles. The kind of people who think if you put a longer pipe right thurr it'll become amphibious. I could use more inflammatory language but... I'll leave it at that.

The people that get nostalgic about their time in service or have a sense of patriotic pride or just get excited because it's a neat truck, I like talking to those people when I have the time. But the majority of people I'm getting so far are the people who just ask "how much?" because they think it would make them look more bad a--, and then they proceed to try to tell me about the truck when they clearly don't know anything about it.

Seeing the smile on kids' faces is all worth it though. Too cool!

 

[TNriverjet]

The people that get nostalgic about their time in service or have a sense of patriotic pride or just get excited because it's a neat truck, I like talking to those people when I have the time...Seeing the smile on kids' faces is all worth it though. Too cool!

Priceless! I've received similar reactions. One guy jogging down the road gave me the double fist pump and salute. It is actually humbling for me to drive the M1078 since I never served, but I find myself thanking God for those who did!

I'm glad you are enjoying the truck. It is really enjoyable to take your time cleaning and servicing one of these great machines. I've learned so much in such a short time. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MaverickH1]

I wanted to update the thread with the things I have found to be missing on this truck, the hope being that people will be able to see what additional cost is required to get one of these stripped M1123 trucks "road worthy" or "complete". Some of this will be duplicate info. Many of these bare bones trucks will probably be missing the same things, and the small parts can be obscure and easy to miss, making the truck time consuming to get put together. Generally, the AM General part number is shown. The NSN # might also be shown if that's what I had available. View the parts manuals to find what you need, although sometimes the manuals are incorrect.

ASSUME THAT THESE PARTS ONLY APPLY TO CONVERTING TO A 2 DOOR SOFT TOP TRUCK. Additional parts might be needed for some other configuration.

I have needed to add:

I) Windshield - I've already replaced the LH glass and broken a windshield by trying to force it. I will put on a GoPro when I do the RH so it can be seen how to do a Humvee windshield.
A) Windshield glass, left and right - part #6003520 - This was a good opportunity to upgrade to top tinted windows. $100 each from Hummerpartsguy. LH is used for both windows, they are interchangeable but the only difference on the tinted windows is that they include the rearview mirror mount which needed to be removed from the window I decided to use for the RH glass.
B) Outer rubber seal for the glass - part # [FONT=&quot]12338941 - [/FONT]also interchangeable between RH/LH.
C) Windshield sealant, applied to the rear seating area of the windshield seal (from the perspective of the driver). Follow instructions on the tube. Allow it to become tacky before installing windshield.
D) Windshield retainers:
1) Center retainer x 1 - part # 01-188-3225
2) Outer retainers x 2
3) Lower retainers x 2 - part # 12447029P
4) Necessary hardware, combination of 10-24 and 10-32 screws. I might update this later to be more detailed. In my case, a couple of the rivet nuts in the body had bolts broken off inside of them and had to be drilled out and replaced.
E) Windshield wiper - wiper was dry rotted. Supposedly late 80's Wrangler wipers work, but I bought a Hummer H1 wiper arm so I can use any 12" wiper from Advance Auto in the future. Civilian Hummer H1 wiper arm is part #6012641.

II) Soft top addition
A) Soft top kit - top, rear curtain, bows and crossmembers, soft doors
B) B-pillar Rabbet - part #12339188 - the reason the blank trucks show shiny aluminum on the outer sides of the B-Pillar is because this is where the rabbet goes. It is a formed piece of aluminum that is riveted to the side of the B-pillar. It changes according to the door configuration, so this piece was removed when the armored doors and top were removed due to it being a specialty armored piece. This piece holds the rubber well nut that the crossmembers attach to in the soft top frame.
C) Two #10-32 rubber well nuts - part #5581714 - needed to attach the crossmember to the B-Pillar Rabbet
D) Windshield former - part # 01-196-5313 - the part that wraps around the top of the windshield and holds the front of the soft top -
E) Turnbuttons - part #00-823-5999 - I found several of these turnbuttons sitting in the bed and all over the cavities of the truck. I still needed 15 more to complete the truck and have some extras left over. You will also need 1/8" aluminum rivets and a rivet gun to secure these to the various locations they are required.
F) Hardware - I'll have to update this section. I believe the former needs pan head screws, either 10-24 or 10-32.
G) Soft doors:
1) The doors themselves, both RH and LH
2) Strikers - LH and RH are the same part number, 01-207-0717 - Hardware also needed. Installing required removing bolts from B-Pillar and using a c-clamp to pull the holes into alignment.
3) Door straps
4) Door hinges - 2x per side - the 1/4-20 threaded holes were intact for the lower hinge, the upper holes had been drilled out for the armored hinge, this just required the use of a larger washer and nut on the interior side of the door.

III) Tailgate and all related hardware - Some holes had to be drilled for the brackets.

IV) Cargo divider. Not mounted yet due to A/C being in the way. Unknown whether all hardware is available.

V) Spray paint - 383 CARC Substitute green and brown from Rapco. Black phosphate primer. Flat black. It's a lot easier to paint parts before you put them on. I took a marker and drew the camo pattern on parts before mounting them and painted them accordingly.

Additional items that were needed:
- Headlights - both low beams were burned out
- Dash lights - the two lights in the dash look to have been corroded, potentially a low voltage parasitic drain. The sockets get 24v as they should and are grounded just fine. Cleaning and reinserting the bulbs gets no light.
- Shifter indicator light - similar to the dash lights, this does not light up. All 3 lights in the panel light circuit being burned out makes me suspect there's something in the circuit that is burning them out.
- Rubber hood latch dogbone - left side was torn, it appears that the hood latch is not aligned with the latch on the body and that likely caused the breakage.
- Manually activated reverse lighting and switch
- Keyed ignition.

Further... I have had to REMOVE:

- Two random U shaped clamps with wings found hanging over a crossmember. They were very beefy and I'm glad I found and removed them before they fell off somewhere along the road...
- Almost all rivets were sheared off when removed. Many of them have to be drilled and/or punched out.
- A/C system
- Various hardware laying around in the truck

That's all I can think of at the moment.