M35a2 oils

[Two Stroke Madness]

My transmission had oil\water muck in it when I got it with lots of metal chips. The side plate for PTO has a pitted rust line on the lower ½ or so and there was rust here and there all over. My hunch is that the truck was ran through a river or flooding without getting the fluids drained… I did 3 flushes and cleanings with conventional 80-90W before the chip level seemed to level off and nearly stop. I’m running synthetic blend and pulled the fill plug a couple days ago to find few if any new chips in a few hundred mile period. Will keep an eye on it.

I like to use a mixture of kerosene and engine oil flush to clean out all of the transmissions, transfer cases, and differentials in all of my trucks. However I only do this in a "no load" situation with all the wheels in the air, and I only idle the engine through all of the gears. This process has worked wonders for me over the years, and it saves a lot of time.

 

[doghead]

It has a proven track record.

Perfect term to use.

When members here were using it 8-10 years ago, it failed in one spot in the 2.5 ton transmission.

After a few of the failures were diagnosed, it became apparent that the oil was not working in one specific area.

That created a track record that I have not forgotten. It's in the forums.

I don't think history should be ignored.

I don't care to debate it.

 

[Another Ahab]

Others have seen failures in the trans with synthetic.

Do your homework before you put your faith in what you read on the internet.

It has a proven track record. Your right in saying check everything you read on the internet, especially peoples opinions.

 

[Two Stroke Madness]

The Spicer transmission we are talking about is NOT a modern transmission. It was designed in the early1950's. At the time they used 80/90w or 90/140w gear oil. The transmission was "designed" to use it. Modern transmissions have been "designed" to use all sorts of gear oils to meet the engineers requirements. Some might use "ATF" since they will be shifted fast, like in a sports car. Some will be hauling heavy loads so they will use 80/90w . It just depends, but our "Spicer" was designed to use 80/90w . If you disassemble a modern transmission that uses "ATF" you will find extremely tight tolerances in gear lash and bushings. In a transmission designed to use 80/90w you will find more clearance in the gears and bushings. There is a reason why manufactures specify what gear oil to use. Ours has specified a heavy 80/90w in the TM's. That is what your suppose to use. Now do you understand ?
I didn't even mention using oils that are "Yellow" metal tolerant. That's a whole other topic.

I know that this is from a couple of years ago and I could not find if this issue had been delt with yet, but if you compare the viscosity numbers of the SAE 50 synthetic oil that is ment for use in Spicer, Rockwell, Fuller, and Eaton Roadranger transmisions to the 80W-90 gear oils the SAE 50 actually has slightly higher viscosity numbers. I believe that this alone gives merit to the idea that this newer oil can be backwards compatible with our older transmissions. Not to mention the fact that it is formulated specifically to be ran in big non-synchronized manual transmissions with input torque in the 1500+ ft/lb range while hauling 80,000+ lbs for millions of miles. Just food for thought.

 

[skidder]

Hi Troops, I have ben using AMS oil since they started ,Iam a commercial user ,an use in all of my cars ,trucks an const. equipment for years It cost more up front but get it on the other end, the eng. runs freer an cooler ...I use the 15-40 ext-life 25000 mi marine oil .. Skidder

 

[rustystud]

Perfect term to use.

When members here were using it 8-10 years ago, it failed in one spot in the 2.5 ton transmission.

After a few of the failures were diagnosed, it became apparent that the oil was not working in one specific area.

That created a track record that I have not forgotten. It's in the forums.

I don't think history should be ignored.

I don't care to debate it.

Again for the "few" failures mentioned ( I think it was two) we never found out which oil they used, only that they said it was a synthetic. I have given you actual proof ( from Shells oil site and Meritors recommended oil site and from the engineer at "Tremec" plus my own use and the use of my old boss) not "hearsay" . Remember this site is about making our trucks work and work well. I's not a site based on "my opinion" . In another post a member here has posted about using a "better" starter relay to help with starter run-on on the CUCV. That is the attitude that helps here. Looking out of the box to help with problems.

 

[frank8003]

Old thread update.
I am a shifting fool. I like keeping engine at the torque peak and shifting around and not lugging my engine. When I got the Deuce it was difficult to shift it as it is supposed to be done.
I researched SS and found she probably had some "not as good as could be" lubrication in the transmission and in the transfer case.
I drained both cases, ran that thru my best magnets and really really fine paint and hydraulic no-lint clothes and found nothing that would be of any concern at all.
Problem had to be just the lubricant.
So I re-filled both boxes with non-detergent 40 MAG 1 oil with new drain seals. I went for tractor supply oil, all the way there and they had none so I bought the Mag 1 on-line.
I shifted that truck thru city traffic thousands of times and never had another failure to engage, clang, clunk, or had to use excessive force.
This lube fixed the problem and it caused no leaks.
In town I shifted 2L, 2H, 3, 4, 5. because if I used first gear then I would be the only one to get thru the light. Worked on the way down too.
Others drove the truck and had no problems shifting her.
So I am done, that's my 27 cents worth.

 

[winfred]

non detergent 40w tractor supply white bottle here in the reman'd still in crate transfer case and god knows how old whines a little in 4th and 5th and could go 1-2nd a little easier tranny, had dirty gear oil smelling stuff in trans when i got it and it might shift a little easier into 2nd since oil change 250 odd miles ago, 5th whine may've lessened after 180 odd mile m105 recovery

 

[rustystud]

Old thread update.
I am a shifting fool. I like keeping engine at the torque peak and shifting around and not lugging my engine. When I got the Deuce it was difficult to shift it as it is supposed to be done.
I researched SS and found she probably had some "not as good as could be" lubrication in the transmission and in the transfer case.
I drained both cases, ran that thru my best magnets and really really fine paint and hydraulic no-lint clothes and found nothing that would be of any concern at all.
Problem had to be just the lubricant.
So I re-filled both boxes with non-detergent 40 MAG 1 oil with new drain seals. I went for tractor supply oil, all the way there and they had none so I bought the Mag 1 on-line.
I shifted that truck thru city traffic thousands of times and never had another failure to engage, clang, clunk, or had to use excessive force.
This lube fixed the problem and it caused no leaks.
In town I shifted 2L, 2H, 3, 4, 5. because if I used first gear then I would be the only one to get thru the light. Worked on the way down too.
Others drove the truck and had no problems shifting her.
So I am done, that's my 27 cents worth.

View attachment 704214

View attachment 704215

View attachment 704216

View attachment 704217

I bet if you went to a "Synthetic 50W gear oil" you would really feel some difference in shifting quality . I am surprised you where able to find some "Non-Detergent" oil. I haven't seen any in years now.

 

[Two Stroke Madness]

I bet if you went to a "Synthetic 50W gear oil" you would really feel some difference in shifting quality . I am surprised you where able to find some "Non-Detergent" oil. I haven't seen any in years now.

Non-detergent oils are still widely used in a lot of larger compressor motors and other various machinery... both in straight weight and multi viscosity. It's actually the preferred choice for anything that doesn't burn fuel.

 

[frank8003]

Yeah, these people
https://mag1.com/products/industrial-greases/non-detergent-lubricating-oil/
or tractor supply or numerous other places will happily sell you all you want.
Trans and transfer cases, air compressors and the like use non-detergent oils
so the crap drops out of suspension to the bottom of the case.
Like all the equipment without force fed filters.
I just had no further problems after oil changeout so I happy.
Each to his own. At the moment I do not see them offering the 40#.
https://mag1.com/products/industrial-greases/non-detergent-lubricating-oil/

 

[rustystud]

Yeah, these people
https://mag1.com/products/industrial-greases/non-detergent-lubricating-oil/
or tractor supply or numerous other places will happily sell you all you want.
Trans and transfer cases, air compressors and the like use non-detergent oils
so the crap drops out of suspension to the bottom of the case.
Like all the equipment without force fed filters.
I just had no further problems after oil changeout so I happy.
Each to his own. At the moment I do not see them offering the 40#.
https://mag1.com/products/industrial-greases/non-detergent-lubricating-oil/


View attachment 704533

I guess I need to get out to "farm" country. Been in the city too long.

 

[frank8003]

I guess I need to get out to "farm" country. Been in the city too long.

Rustystud
Actually you have to go on vacation to Alaska that you always wanted,
but before you do Please empty your PM mailbox.
And please show list of all the equipment truck and trailer you will be using.
We like pictures!

 

[Another Ahab]

rustystud is leaving the city and moving up the country?!

Yee HAW, where the water tastes like wine!!



https://youtu.be/kUJmmU5mvpw

 

[Tracer]

Rusty, when you get out to Farm Country, buy an Oliver 2150 tractor. You'll feel right at home, it comes with a multi-fuel engine.

 

[rustystud]

rustystud is leaving the city and moving up the country?!

Yee HAW, where the water tastes like wine!!



https://youtu.be/kUJmmU5mvpw

Wow ! I remember those days well. It's making me feel my inner "Timothy Leary" right now. Lets all "turn on, tune in and drop out" !

 

[rustystud]

Rustystud
Actually you have to go on vacation to Alaska that you always wanted,
but before you do Please empty your PM mailbox.
And please show list of all the equipment truck and trailer you will be using.
We like pictures!

I still need to get my power steering project finished before I can go. I cannot handle the manual steering on that long of a trip. I have parts being machined right now. Soon I will have my gear box back and then the fun begins !

 

[Another Ahab]

I still need to get my power steering project finished before I can go. I cannot handle the manual steering on that long of a trip. I have parts being machined right now. Soon I will have my gear box back and then the fun begins !

I'm going to start laying in my popcorn stockpile for that thread right NOW.

Alright!!

 

[Tracer]

I still need to get my power steering project finished before I can go. I cannot handle the manual steering on that long of a trip. I have parts being machined right now. Soon I will have my gear box back and then the fun begins !

It should be fun! Subscribe!

 

[2deuce]

I read this whole thread and I really like the thought and info posted. I just got a m49a2c deuce home and like I always do I changed the oil. I used Delo 400LE 15/40. After reading here I think I will change to RotellaT on the next change, but I buy this Delo at costco when it's on sale, because it's easy and cheap while I thnk it's a good oil. I looked at the specs for it online and it says, zinc is .13% by weight (or mass). I went to the site Rusty Stud linked where he gets his zinc and I have some on the way. How much do I add to the delo? How is this calculated? Rusty Stud seems to know what gave him 1600ppm in his shell oil. What formula is used to arrive at this amount?

Thanks