M35a2 oils

[Aussie Bloke]

G'day everyone,....


In the comment section BC mentions he would use a 50w oil but it wasn't available at the time.
Also in the vid he mentions that that's the type of oil the spicer gearbox was meant to use,....

I know gear oil has a higher shear resistance but if you used the 50w oil it would just mean you would change it a little sooner if that info is correct.

I don't think he drives it with the drive shaft exposed all the time but that was done for the vid while he moved forward a few meters to show it all works just fine after the fluid change.


Just my thoughts,....




Aussie.

 

[frank8003]

post 34 in here interesting viscosity chart

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...transmission&p=1675504&highlight=#post1675504

 

[rustystud]

G'day everyone,....


In the comment section BC mentions he would use a 50w oil but it wasn't available at the time.
Also in the vid he mentions that that's the type of oil the spicer gearbox was meant to use,....

I know gear oil has a higher shear resistance but if you used the 50w oil it would just mean you would change it a little sooner if that info is correct.

I don't think he drives it with the drive shaft exposed all the time but that was done for the vid while he moved forward a few meters to show it all works just fine after the fluid change.


Just my thoughts,....




Aussie.

He was in fourth gear there at the end, going pretty fast. I don't care if it was just for the video (which just makes it even stupider in my opinion) you never drive a vehicle like that. As far as what the manufacturer said to use. Spicer came out with this transmission in the 1950's . At no time has any gear manufacturer back then suggested using straight 30w in a gear box. I have an almost complete collection of "Motor Manuals" from 2012 going back to 1924 (missing the 1936,37,38 editions ). There is no mention of using 30w in a transmission.

 

[welldigger]

He was in fourth gear there at the end, going pretty fast. I don't care if it was just for the video (which just makes it even stupider in my opinion) you never drive a vehicle like that. As far as what the manufacturer said to use. Spicer came out with this transmission in the 1950's . At no time has any gear manufacturer back then suggested using straight 30w in a gear box. I have an almost complete collection of "Motor Manuals" from 2012 going back to 1924 (missing the 1936,37,38 editions ). There is no mention of using 30w in a transmission.

This is a bit off topic...but not much. Do your manuals mention anything about using atf in a stick shift? I ask because that's exactly what a zf-650 specs. Among numerous other manual gear boxes and 4wd and awd transfer cases.

Point being is each transmission is speced for a specific oil. In the case of the spicer gear box in the m-35....I honestly believe most people think way too hard about what oil to use.

 

[rustystud]

This is a bit off topic...but not much. Do your manuals mention anything about using atf in a stick shift? I ask because that's exactly what a zf-650 specs. Among numerous other manual gear boxes and 4wd and awd transfer cases.

Point being is each transmission is speced for a specific oil. In the case of the spicer gear box in the m-35....I honestly believe most people think way too hard about what oil to use.

The later models like the European ZF transmissions used ATF but all the old vehicles (where talking the 1960's and older) never used ATF. It wasn't until the modern era (that's what I call it) in the 1970's that things started to get weird about oils and what was used in what. The old "rock crusher" from Chevy came factory with 90w, but the hotrod crowd started using lighter weight oils for quicker shifting. The problem with not using the correct weight of oil is that damage can be done to the transmission or other gear unit. If a unit is not built to run ATF which is a real light weight oil then you will get bearing failure and gear damage real fast. The transmissions like the ZF was designed to use ATF. Tighter bearing tolerances, tighter synchro's and gear lash. So you need to pay attention to the manufacture's recommendation for the right oil to use. You also mentioned transfer case's. Almost all transfer case's that use ATF or any lighter weight oil are chain drive units or compound planetary gear units. There is no straight gear driven unit that use's ATF. Now some will say that the NP205 used ATF. That was on the "shift on the fly" NP205 used on 1984 to 1986 units because of the synchro's used on the front output shaft. They got away from that design due to it's constant breaking. They then went back to the older design and 90-140w oil. In todays market there is no straight gear driven transfer case being built (except aftermarket) . All have chains and planetary units including all the 1 tons from any manufacturer .
So liked I said in the last post, in 1950 when this transmission was designed it was made to use 90-140w oil.

 

[ProudAmerican]

What about greasing ? Ralph

 

[frank8003]

What about greasing ? Ralph

It came with non-biodegradable GAA
put it back please or you can use the new flavor
View attachment GAA green grease 03032011.doc

 

[dmetalmiki]

I been doing a full maintenance over haul on the deuce. But before I changed all the oils I did some research. And found rottella was the best engine oil for the deuce, but I wanted to change the trans, diff and the T-case oils so i looked around on SS and seen different opinions. I wanted the best so I stayed with all the same brand if it's the best for the engine it has to be good for the rest so here is what I found SHELL SPIRAX A 80W-90 HEAVY DUTY GEAR OIL API GL5 PERFORMANCE it covers everthing.

1 ENGINE OIL
Rottela T 3

2 TRANSMISSION
SHELL SPIRAX A 80W-90

3 TRANSFERCASE
SHELL SPIRAX A 80W-90

4 DIFFERENTIALS
SHELL SPIRAX A 80W-90



SHELL SPIRAX A 80W-90
HEAVY DUTY GEAR OIL API GL5 PERFORMANCE DESCRIPTION
Shell Spirax A 80W-90 is an extreme pressure, heavy duty lubricant recommended for hypoid or spiral bevel axles, gears and steering boxes of automotive equipment.
Shell Spirax A is also available as an SAE 85W-140 grade.
PERFORMANCE FEATURES
HEAVY DUTY.
Shell Spirax A 80W-90 contains extreme pressure additives which impart high load carrying capacity to the oil.
RUST AND OXIDATION RESISTANCE.
Shell Spirax A 80W-90 contains anti-corrosion and anti-oxidation additives which respectively aid in the corrosion protection of gear box components and prevent rapid oil oxidation.
OPERATING TEMPERATURES.
Shell Spirax A 80W-90 maintains multigrade characteristics, due to its high viscosity index, thus eliminating the need for seasonal oil changes.
SUMMARY OF BENEFITS
• Shell Spirax A 80W-90 protects all types of gears, including helical, spiral bevel and hypoid, against wear and does not attack yellow metal components sometimes present in gear systems.
• Multigrade characteristics enable maintenance of wear protection over a wide range of operating temperatures and reduces oil drag at start up.
• Shell Spirax A 80W-90 may be used in a wide variety of manual transmissions and vehicle axles.
HEALTH & SAFETY
Information is available on the relevant Material Safety Data Sheet



SPECIFICATIONS/APPROVALS

US MILITARY


MIL-L-2105D

API GL5

Very concise and informative information. Good post. Straight forward and clear. Thank you.

 

[dusterdeere]

any updates on the shell 80-90wt in the trans

 

[V8srfun]

I have worked on many manual transmissions in light car and trucks that can take 80/90 and atf or a 50/50 mix of both. This is stated in the factory service manual of the vehicles. So to say that 30wt will cause damage when that is what the manufacturer recommends does not make sense to me. Now to be honest I would not use 30wt because I like the idea of having the same fluid in all the drivetrain components for easier maintenance and not having to buy multiple fluids.

 

[frank8003]

post 22 or 27
For what most are going to do with these trucks
they could just fill everything with whale oil.
OOPS

 

[rustystud]

I have worked on many manual transmissions in light car and trucks that can take 80/90 and atf or a 50/50 mix of both. This is stated in the factory service manual of the vehicles. So to say that 30wt will cause damage when that is what the manufacturer recommends does not make sense to me. Now to be honest I would not use 30wt because I like the idea of having the same fluid in all the drivetrain components for easier maintenance and not having to buy multiple fluids.

The Spicer transmission we are talking about is NOT a modern transmission. It was designed in the early1950's. At the time they used 80/90w or 90/140w gear oil. The transmission was "designed" to use it. Modern transmissions have been "designed" to use all sorts of gear oils to meet the engineers requirements. Some might use "ATF" since they will be shifted fast, like in a sports car. Some will be hauling heavy loads so they will use 80/90w . It just depends, but our "Spicer" was designed to use 80/90w . If you disassemble a modern transmission that uses "ATF" you will find extremely tight tolerances in gear lash and bushings. In a transmission designed to use 80/90w you will find more clearance in the gears and bushings. There is a reason why manufactures specify what gear oil to use. Ours has specified a heavy 80/90w in the TM's. That is what your suppose to use. Now do you understand ?
I didn't even mention using oils that are "Yellow" metal tolerant. That's a whole other topic.

 

[V8srfun]

The transmissions I was referring to are in vehicles like the ford cobra mustang these cars make fairly respectable hp and torque numbers. The ford/Mazda ranger/b series pickup we all know these little trucks get more than there fare share of abuse. Most of the eighties to nineties Mazda transmissions and I am Shute there are many more. The point I am trying to make is that what the manufacturer of the part recommended for it is what should be used. I have NOT looked into what spicer designed the trans for but if deuce & guns information is accurate there is no problem with using 30wt in these transmissions. According to deuce & guns spicer recommend 30wt be used so it is ok to use in these transmissions. Then he goes on to provide information on who the government recommended different oil so they could use the same oil on multiple parts.

I would not use 30wt in this trans until I found out if his statement is true but if it is then there is no reason to be concerned about the oil being insufficient.


90 percent of synchronized transmissions use brass for the synchronizer blocking ring this is nothing new.

 

[rustystud]

The transmissions I was referring to are in vehicles like the ford cobra mustang these cars make fairly respectable hp and torque numbers. The ford/Mazda ranger/b series pickup we all know these little trucks get more than there fare share of abuse. Most of the eighties to nineties Mazda transmissions and I am Shute there are many more. The point I am trying to make is that what the manufacturer of the part recommended for it is what should be used. I have NOT looked into what spicer designed the trans for but if deuce & guns information is accurate there is no problem with using 30wt in these transmissions. According to deuce & guns spicer recommend 30wt be used so it is ok to use in these transmissions. Then he goes on to provide information on who the government recommended different oil so they could use the same oil on multiple parts.

I would not use 30wt in this trans until I found out if his statement is true but if it is then there is no reason to be concerned about the oil being insufficient.


90 percent of synchronized transmissions use brass for the synchronizer blocking ring this is nothing new.

Why don't you just read the TM's ? If you do you will see what they recommend for this transmission. All your going on is this guys "opinion" in an article. I'll stick with the manufactures recommendation. As far as the synchros in the transmission being brass, you would be surprised how many people use the wrong gear oil. The gear oil in a differential is different then the transmission but lots of people still use it.
About the transmissions used in these "modern" vehicles, didn't you even read my explanation ?

 

[frank8003]

Viscosity chart, engine lube oil and transmission oil.
Pictures to help.
View attachment oil zddp zdtp apism cj4 03132013.pdf

 

[rustystud]

Viscosity chart, engine lube oil and transmission oil.
Pictures to help.
View attachment 571693View attachment 571694View attachment 571695

Thanks for this information Frank. So many people just don't understand that there really is some major differences in oils and that not all oils are created equal. I know we where talking about transmission gear oil but this article about engine oils helps people understand that there is differences that need to be understood. I have been extolling the virtues of following the manufactures recommendations lately, and if you do not do your own research that is what I recommend for everyone. I have been researching oils lately and I believe I will be trying a 50w Synthetic Gear oil from "Shell" for my deuce after I rebuild my transmission. This way I will know if the fluid had any effects on the longevity of the transmission. But until I come to a conclusion about this oils usability in a Spicer 3053 I will still recommend that people use the TM's recommendations.

 

[GrizzlyEater]

Good info here, subscribing for future reference!

 

[welldigger]

Thanks for this information Frank. So many people just don't understand that there really is some major differences in oils and that not all oils are created equal. I know we where talking about transmission gear oil but this article about engine oils helps people understand that there is differences that need to be understood. I have been extolling the virtues of following the manufactures recommendations lately, and if you do not do your own research that is what I recommend for everyone. I have been researching oils lately and I believe I will be trying a 50w Synthetic Gear oil from "Shell" for my deuce after I rebuild my transmission. This way I will know if the fluid had any effects on the longevity of the transmission. But until I come to a conclusion about this oils usability in a Spicer 3053 I will still recommend that people use the TM's recommendations.

Your synchros may not like that synthetic oil. No harm in trying it but it may not shift very good. Sometimes modern super slick oils aren't what these old transmissions like.

 

[arno]

Experts,
would someone with knowledge please shed some light on this:
I have changed the oil in the transmission and replaced it with synthetic
LiquiMoly 75W90 GL5 MIL-L-2105C/D Oil 1415
Apart from the manual asking for 80W90, am I right to assume that complying with the MIL-spec means the oil is yellow metal safe although it is a GL5 oil and also recommended for hypoid drives?
Link to the oil I use:
http://tinyurl.com/p7xyb9c
Arno

 

[rustystud]

Your synchros may not like that synthetic oil. No harm in trying it but it may not shift very good. Sometimes modern super slick oils aren't what these old transmissions like.

I have wondered about that too. That is why I'm "experimenting" with this oil. Hopefully it will work out. In the past I have had to go back to regular oil, like in my transfer case. It did not like the synthetic ! It would grind like crazy !!! Once back to the regular 80/90w oil it worked great.