M35a2 oils

[rustystud]

Experts,
would someone with knowledge please shed some light on this:
I have changed the oil in the transmission and replaced it with synthetic
LiquiMoly 75W90 GL5 MIL-L-2105C/D Oil 1415
Apart from the manual asking for 80W90, am I right to assume that complying with the MIL-spec means the oil is yellow metal safe although it is a GL5 oil and also recommended for hypoid drives?
Link to the oil I use:
http://tinyurl.com/p7xyb9c
Arno

I read the technical data sheet and yes I believe it will be just fine in your transmission. In fact this looks like a good match for what I am looking for !

 

[dusterdeere]

Is anybody else using shell 80/90 and how is it working for you. thanks

 

[rustystud]

Is anybody else using shell 80/90 and how is it working for you. thanks

As of right now I'm still using Shell 80/90w oil and it works just fine. Like I said in the previous post though , I plan on going to this other synthetic Shell oil.

 

[frank8003]

At my level of driving my truck I only had to change the transmission, transfer case and differential lubes once. All the old stuff drained had no visable refuse or metals found with my most powerful magnet and best strainer hydraulic cloths. Since it ain't broke there is nothing for me to fix, It is just an old truck.

I used what I think was best, I use Rotella in the crankcase, the best lube, fuel, and coolant filters, the best coolant and the best fuel filter system I could build for me. I grease it with GAA as that is what it was built for/with.
I did that for me, you guys use whatever you think is best for your machines.

I offer some of my research here placed into the SS database in PDF form.
View attachment GL-5 confusion to clarity.pdf

and some pictures for the General

 

[rustystud]

That is some good information Frank, but I have to say this. The problem with saying the 40w Non Detergent oil is fine to use in our deuces is that 'again' it is a transmission designed in the 1950's to use 80/90w oil. You cannot make statements that it is OK without proper testing. Since they do not and will not test our old Spicer 3053 transmissions for this oil then you cannot say that it is OK to use until you yourself have tested the oil and it has worked out fine. I'll give you all this example. In the late 1970's GM had the "Posi-Traction" limited slip differential in the 12 bolt rearends. You had to use a special oil or you would get clutch chatter. Then in the 1980's they ( the oil companies) said you no longer needed to use this special oil as their NEW oil took care of all the special needs of this differential. Well as any of you GM fans out there know this wasn't true and the "Posi" differentials started to self destruct. I myself rebuilt quite a few of them. So here we are again with the oil companies telling us that there oils meet all the specifications of transmissions. What they are not telling you is that the oil meets the specs of "present day" transmissions NOT 60 year old Spicers ! No one cares what our transmissions need ! Especially oil companies. Can you imagine them making a special blend just for the Military Collector Community ? I can't either. Yes the oils meet the Military Standards, well guess what. The military does not use Deuces anymore ! All the MRAPS and Strykers and other new fangled equipment the military is using is NEW technology ! So yes the oils meet there specifications. Like I said in an earlier post, there is physical differences between old style transmissions and new technology transmissions. I know, I have worked on them for the last 35 years now. Clearances are tighter on new transmissions. There are different bearings and different synchro's used. There are a lot of differences. Just like engines. Is todays engine just like the ones used in the 1950's ? No, and if you treated it like one you wouldn't have it for long. So to conclude this present rant I will leave you all with this thought. Until an oil can be confirmed that it will not hurt or cause any damage to our Spicers I will still recommend using the "Original" oil recommended for it back in the 1950's when they first came out.
I still plan to try using Shells synthetic 50w oil later this summer though.

 

[brianp454]

I posted in another thread about my transmission 3-4 shift issue and oil coming out of tranny all over my clutch. If I drain it again as a part of fixing it or whatever, any suggestions about the best oil to use? I'm willing to use a synthetic that was not available at the time.

I recently purchased an oil test kit from Cummins and plan to send it in on my LDT-465-1D oil. I'd like to check on this as I've observed that in my cars in the last 10 years or so running synthetic blend Valvoline at 12-15k miles it drains clean with no apparent changes in viscosity or lubricity. In fact, I've been amazed at how clean and seeming still good oil I've drained. I have a new Ford Ecoboost gas engine in my daily driver and when I run the diagnostic report it suggests the first oil change to be at 12-14k. The first! It's at 8k now and the oil has just a bit of a dirty tinge to it. It really looks clean.

I took auto mechanics in HS and we studied Dextron\Mercon (sp?) 3 back then and I don't think people have a proper appreciation of the technology advances that have been accomplished with lubricants. It's just as amazing as the typewriter to the modern tablet or iPad. We really should be appreciative of the fact that we have such choices and the quality is so high. A great problem to be had!

On a side note, I have my old 454 El Camino with the original engine stowed away. Way back I tried every additive, whale blubber modifier, or gear oil to deal with the popping and lock up on slow, tight turns. I never found anything that worked (dealt with the popping an binding). It's the factory rear and I purchased it long ago. I broke the factory tabs holding the rear drums on as they had never been replaced. I have no idea if something better is available today.

 

[frank8003]

That is some good information Frank, but I have to say this. The problem with saying the 40w Non Detergent oil is fine to use in our deuces is that 'again' it is a transmission designed in the 1950's to use 80/90w oil. You cannot make statements that it is OK without proper testing.

OK, I was going to use the non-detergeant from tracktor supply and they had none in stock so I Amazoned and got the MAG1.
So I am experimenting with the MAG1 non-detergeant 40 W in my transmission. The trans just shifts a lot better now but then I do not know what was in there before. Its OK. I studied information I could find, looked into the stated oil particulars, before I spent my money and labor to change the lubricants.
Today I found this, so just for fun I posted it below.

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/why-is-leak-increasing-now_topic33235_page2.html
"Spicer actually recommends 40 to 50 weight engine oil in their larger transmissions depending on temperature. For example they changed the recommended oil in the 3053A transmission used in the M35A2 from 90wt to 50 wt engine oil at least a decade ago. I will agree that the multigrade oil is not the best choice in the transmission. Mono-grade is best."

Oh, and a picture for the Genmeral.....


Inspection Data API SA

Specific Gravity @ 60°F (15.6°C)	ASTM D4052	0.9173
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt	ASTM D445	145.7
Viscosity @ 100°C cSt	ASTM D445	15.31
Viscosity Index	ASTM D2270	48
Color	ASTM D1500	5.0
Gravity, °API	ASTM D287	22.76
Flash Point °C	ASTM D92	225

 

[rustystud]

OK, I was going to use the non-detergeant from tracktor supply and they had none in stock so I Amazoned and got the MAG1.
So I am experimenting with the MAG1 non-detergeant 40 W in my transmission. The trans just shifts a lot better now but then I do not know what was in there before. Its OK. I studied information I could find, looked into the stated oil particulars, before I spent my money and labor to change the lubricants.
Today I found this, so just for fun I posted it below.

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/why-is-leak-increasing-now_topic33235_page2.html
"Spicer actually recommends 40 to 50 weight engine oil in their larger transmissions depending on temperature. For example they changed the recommended oil in the 3053A transmission used in the M35A2 from 90wt to 50 wt engine oil at least a decade ago. I will agree that the multigrade oil is not the best choice in the transmission. Mono-grade is best."

Oh, and a picture for the Genmeral.....
View attachment 574600

Inspection Data API SA

Specific Gravity @ 60°F (15.6°C)	ASTM D4052	0.9173
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt	ASTM D445	145.7
Viscosity @ 100°C cSt	ASTM D445	15.31
Viscosity Index	ASTM D2270	48
Color	ASTM D1500	5.0
Gravity, °API	ASTM D287	22.76
Flash Point °C	ASTM D92	225

That's an interesting quote from some guy on another blog site, but until I have tried the oil myself I still stand by what I said. I'm still going to try the synthetic 50w oil later this summer.

 

[frank8003]

That's an interesting quote from some guy on another blog site........

So I was studying "a quote from another" and research indicates the following.
My LO 9-2320-209-1 multifuel indicates to use GO in the transmission and Transfer cases.
GO is listed as oil, multipurpose as MIL-L_2105.
That morphed into the 1983 MIL-L-2105D in August 1983.
That morphed into MIL-PRF-2105E in 1995.
That standard was then incorporated and rewritten as SAE standard J2360.
SAE standard J2360 latest version is April 5, 2012.
The SAE J2360 is only oils on the "Qualified List" -{GL}.
Each manufacturer selling a lube product on the QL list has a qualification number for that product.
So I have an unqualified oil in my transmission, Holy Toledo!
So just for fun attached is the URL to click on for latest Qualified List with all manufactures qualified products.
I can not attach the Excel file because it is 4.4Kb to big limit is 100 Kb.

Current QPL Listing – July 15 2015 Version

View attachment LO9-2320-209-12-1_04301983.pdf

 

[welldigger]

So I was studying "a quote from another" and research indicates the following.
My LO 9-2320-209-1 multifuel indicates to use GO in the transmission and Transfer cases.
GO is listed as oil, multipurpose as MIL-L_2105.
That morphed into the 1983 MIL-L-2105D in August 1983.
That morphed into MIL-PRF-2105E in 1995.
That standard was then incorporated and rewritten as SAE standard L2360.
SAE standard J2360 latest version is April 5, 2012.
The SAE J2360 is only oils on the "Qualified List" -{GL}.
Each manufacturer selling a lube product on the QL list has a qualification number for that product.
So I have an unqualified oil in my transmission, Holy Toledo!
So just for fun attached is the URL to click on for latest Qualified List with all manufactures qualified products.
I can not attach the Excel file because it is 4.4Kb to big limit is 100 Kb.

Current QPL Listing – July 15 2015 Version

View attachment 574709

40w non detergent oil is basically the same thing as gl-1 gear oil. They are right at about the same viscosity and they both are base stock oil.

The lube order changed on the exact same transmission. If gl-1 worked for 40 years and suddenly the army changes the lube order.....well so what?

If 40w works for you stick with it. If someone else wants something different then let them go for it.

 

[Floridianson]

Yea the Chevron Delo Trans. ESI is a 40wt and I have had no problems with it. As for the grease I use any good stuff as todays tube grease has more than enough protection and most good stiff is good to go in U joints that need EP.

 

[Big Dumb Truck]

 

[highfavor1004]

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[V8srfun]

Thank you for posting that document hopefully some people here will realize that no matter how long you have been doing something there is still room to learn

 

[Big Dumb Truck]

I'm trying to learn everything I can but when I put a question out there they mostly go unanswered.
So instead of working on the truck I end up searching the Internet for the answers. They may not even be the right answers, but that's what I found.

 

[frank8003]

View attachment 574964

Well, that takes care of that conjecture.

 

[Big Dumb Truck]

Unless someone can come up with something that indicates otherwise.

 

[rustystud]

Well, that takes care of that conjecture.

Did you see what year this report came out ?! Really guys this is getting old, just like our Spicer 3053 transmission. I'm sure some of you have started to figure this out as you have been searching for repair manuals. Spicer DOESN'T go that far back with there repair manuals. We have them here of course.

 

[rustystud]

Thank you for posting that document hopefully some people here will realize that no matter how long you have been doing something there is still room to learn

It would be great if some guys here would learn instead of trying to justifying there use of a oil used on MODERN transmissions. "Floridianson" was the first I've seen that posted what he has been using and the results he has had. That is the kind of information that is helpful, not what some guy on another blog site says. Especially when he is using information for modern transmissions. We need information from long time users of different oil weights and synthetics and non-synthetic oils. I'll give one more example of the wrong oil used. My M1035 truck. Some newer manual said to use ATF in the transfer case. That was wrong information. The bearings went out after only 25,000 miles. I bought the truck and replaced all the fluids, finding the ATF in the transfer case. First thing I had to do was rebuild the transfer case and then I installed 80/90w oil in it. I have over 60,000 miles on it and it works great. Right gear oil for the application. Now before the next guy posts some NEW information about modern gear oils, look at the application that oil is used in. Does it say it will work on 60 year old transmissions ? I know there is some report that says 40w oil is just the same viscosity as 80/90w oil, and that it will work just fine in place of 80/90w oil. If that where true then the oil manufactures would only produce that 40w oil and drop all there 80/90w oils. Guess what ? They still produce 80/90w oil. Why ? Because there is a difference ! It is more then just viscosity, it is shear strength and load strength and many other factors.

 

[rustystud]

I'm trying to learn everything I can but when I put a question out there they mostly go unanswered.
So instead of working on the truck I end up searching the Internet for the answers. They may not even be the right answers, but that's what I found.

Sorry to hear no one has answered any of your questions. I'll try in the future to help when I can.