Making a Deuce a (better) highway vehicle?

[wldrbob]

i think about 90 percent of the trucks in the deuce size catagory have single axles.i dont think it would be worse than driving a jeep with big boots . hey it might even be the same as a unimog then . lol

 

[cldh35611]

My stock duece GPS'ed 62 mph. Well I think it is stock but when I drove it home 8 hours from Mississippi it would fly for a duece. Now it has 14-20's and is bobbed it will scare the crap out of you. Anything more than 70 mph is BAD. I think this truck would do at least 80. It has a little bounce and I keep lowering the pressure in the tires and it is all over the road above 60 mph. It doesn't have great low end power because of the big rubber but I am planning on tweaking the pump sometime soon.

 

[tm america]

oh no not a unimog .so it will only go 45 and be slow as he-- .and 14.00s will only give you a top speed of around 74mph and they wont fit on a m109 with stock suspension or without a lift .95% of semis run two rear axles and run the highway for millions of miles .how does bobbing it have anything to do with what he is wanting to do with this truck .it is a m109 he is talking about it has about 3000lbs more high up in the rear than a m35 does.not to mention the extra weight he will be adding with the camper conversion.yes there are single axle dumps that have similar weight ratings as the deuce but they ride like poop and arent made for offroad.he could run lockouts on the center axle if he wants to free up some drag and then he would still have 6x6 for offroad

 

[wldrbob]

well id never take out an axle on my deuce, but we had a 1944 canadian army truck that my dad lenthened for a 16 ft deck .he hauled 1000s of cords out of the bush to the landings.it had a center mt winch. and could skid full length trees. biggest i remember was a white spruce about 36 in at the base.just a case of making a truck into what you want.that truck was a real ofroad truck even if it only had 4 wd. he had 1000/20 tires on it.he carried 6 or more cords thats a lot more than your camper will ever be

 

[tm america]

u haul trucks can ussually be had really cheap they have a box and are made for the highway they have a single axle in the back .if you arent worried about offroad why not just get one of them then you will have ac and it will do 70mph.they even have nice little loading ramps too

 

[wldrbob]

the coolness factor on them is about minus 50 lol

 

[tm america]

thats what i would think of the look of a single axle m109 would be to since it would still have two cut outs for the axles it would look like it is missing something . but thats what happens when you get rid of what makes these truck great to try to turn them into soccer mom rides.-500 on the coolness scale.if you would get rid of one of the rear axles then whats next making it 2x4 and then what dropping it down to make it easier to get inoh wait then youll have to get some shiny paint on there since carc isnt aerodynamic. next thing you know it says u haul on the side

 

[jesusgatos]

u haul trucks can ussually be had really cheap they have a box and are made for the highway they have a single axle in the back .if you arent worried about offroad why not just get one of them then you will have ac and it will do 70mph.they even have nice little loading ramps too

Funny that you mentioned a uhaul box. I made an enclosed trailer to tow behind my M109 by putting a 14ft uhaul box on top of an M353 trailer, and I actually did reuse the loading-ramp! It's awesome. I'm building this motorhome to live/travel in full-time. I'll be hauling a trailer full of dirt bikes and toys, and my goal is to be able to set up camp in some really remote places. I've built a lot of extreme off-road vehicles, and I have a very clear idea of what type of off-road performance I want this rig to be capable of. At the same time, I need to be able to DRIVE it on-road, over long distances, in relative comfort, and I need to be able to haul everything that I want to bring with me. Like everything else, it's a matter of compromise.

...it would still have two cut outs for the axles it would look like it is missing something . but thats what happens when you get rid of what makes these truck great...

There are no wheelwells or cutouts for tire clearance in an M109 box. The illusion of wheelwells is really nothing more than a 4.25" vertical flange that extends BELOW the bottom of the box. Would be really easy to eliminate that by filling it in with a patch-panel. As far as getting rid of what makes these trucks great, I can only say that I modify vehicles to suit MY needs. No plans to drop an axle any time soon, I'm only saying that it's something I've considered, and I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing this as a matter of making deuces better-suited to _____.

 

[tm america]

dont forget if you move the axle to the back it will make it harder to turn the steering wheel since it will be putting more weight on the front axle .the way it is with the dual axles the weight of the box is split half is pushing down on the rear picking up on the front while the other half is going on the front .so it is pretty balanced as it is thus putting most of the weight on the rear axles .when you move the axle to the back more than half of the weight of the box will go on the front axle. think of it like moving the fifth wheel forward or backwards on a semi .a little movement in where the axle is make a big difference in how the load is distributed .also moving it back will make it have a bigger turning radius to because it will have a longer wheel base.

 

[wldrbob]

i dont think rhat would be a problem for sombody thats handy with tools just put in power assist from a wrecked semi. good place to get seats to

 

[tm america]

power steering from a semi isnt gonna fit on a deuce it will hit the injection pump.there are only a couple power steering pumps that fit on the deuce .they have been talked about in several other threads. do a search you will see what i mean.seats can come from a semi which is what i said in earlier posts. adding a air ride seat would be one of the first things i would do. it will be a problem for the 9.00 if you dont change them out .i'm just saying do what you want but remember to look at it from every angle. everything you do will effect something else.from what you guys are talking about you want to completely redsign the whole truck.i dont think that is needed here all you need to do to the deuce to make it a great long haul offroad truck is .first put bigger tires .second put disc brakes on the front axle.thrid add a muffler insulate the cab and get a air ride seat.then add power steering air-o-matic is an easy install.than add lockout hubs to the front and one of the rear axles.i would also turn up the fuel and add a innercooler to .other than that other things can be done like adding 12 volt electric to run a radio and other things like a cell phone charger

 

[feets]

WOW! That's the first post I've ever seen from TM without a in there somewhere.

I'm relatively new here and have been trying to figure out if he was really that critical of others or just got his kicks out of seeing the little guy roll his eyes.

I've been saving my pennies to pick up a deuce and want to make it a relatively comfy highway truck without taking anything away from the off road capabilities.

 

[Unforgiven]

second put disc brakes on the front axle

TM, could you explain this further. Is there a front disc conversion possible? I ask b/c if you have followed my mental-gymnastics about upgrading the brakes, you know that I plan to use the MC from a 7500 Kodiak/Topkick that use Hydromax. There are 6x4 Kodiak trucks with discs up front. If a front disc conversion is possible I would like to know more. Thx.

 

[Recovry4x4]

M-35tom is doing an overdrive gearset for the deuce tranny to get you that speed. Might PM him, he's got a 70 mph deuce and it will run that all day. It would take days to digest all the upgrades he did on the truck.

 

[DanMartin]

It would take days to digest all the upgrades he did on the truck.

Agreed. M-35Tom does great work. His power steering arrangement is mega-cool. What a great truck he has.

 

[Mandalore]

I'm told a catastrophic steering axle tire failure without power steering can result in the need for new seat covers.

 

[Trango]

Sorry guys, late to the party. Here's my list on improvements for highway speed:

- r22.5 radials, with ribbed steers in the front (Same size as rears)

- Repower and higher OD transmission (.695)

- Power steering (outboard, to clear the new, wide engine)

- Front axle caster "flipped" via reversing the springpads and square u-bolts

- tightened up rear bogies, along with 1x2x.25" strips of metal (spacers) welded into the inboard sides of the 2 separate rear leaf spring tracks on each of the two rear axles, to tighten up rear axle travel


The last improvement is because, when you are on asphalt deeply grooved by semi traffic, the rear axles tend to drive themselves, up and down the ruts. This causes massive truck sway, which, along with tire failure on a steer axle, is a potential cause for driver seat upholstery discoloration. It's pretty scary in big ruts at speed.

The caster flip also helps you drive the truck, and not the other way around. 0º Caster (stock), aka Tractor Steering, is great for steering the front axles with manual steering. 7-8º of caster provides better return to center and control of the truck, but is difficult to steer without power steering.


Ultimately, there is no perfect solution to the deuce's status as a slow truck. You can make it faster, but IMO, you will never make it a 70MPH truck, nor one that's good at crushing up big hills with ease.

This is why my deuce, which I built as a towrig with the ability to double as an occasional hauling vehicle, is leaving me. It is really only good on the flats, and without even more major surgery, it is too ill suited for the big hills we have here in Colorado.

I also have doubts about the brakes. I had planned on splitting the brake circuit with parts I already have, but that's part of the major surgery I've second-guessed my way out of.


That's my peace. If you live in the flats, a repower with a 5.9 6BT and a few other mods will make a very capable truck for not too much cash, and is IMO one of the best upgrades out there for the deuce platform. Otherwise, you are going to have to be satisfied (as has been said) with a longer look at the scenery. This slower mode of life is pleasing to many people, with good reason. In its stock configuration It's a fun truck to drive, but it's just fun if you go into it with the expectation that you can either keep up with traffic (especially on hills) or drive good distances on the interstate.

Best,
Bob

 

[jesusgatos]

That's really interesting about the caster. Thanks for posting.

 

[tm america]

as far as the disc brakes for the front there are several places that sell kits for the 2.5 ton rockwells. some use f650 rotors some use other rotors .if you do a search on it you will come up with all different manufactures . you also will have to run a proportioning valve-residual valve to have proper pedal height.good idea on the alinement .

 

[Trango]

The drums are not the main issue IMO with the brakes - the big concern is the single circuit. There isn't a ton of flow or pressure from the stock master, and if you lose one brake cylinder or get one leak, you experience total brake failure.

The drums are well sized for the deuce. 13k lbs, and 6 big drums, with plenty of heat dissipation. Remember - 5 ton trucks run not too dissimilar drums, and are 50% heavier.

This is coming from a guy who has installed two Rockwell front axle disk kits, no stranger to disking these brakes (and one rear homebrew disk brake system as well).