max HP out of a 465 multi fuel?

[m16ty]

IMO the problem with the multifuel holding up to high HP is the high compression. The first thing I would do to get more power out of it would be to lower the compression. In doing that you will take some pressure off of the rods, lower EGT, and would allow you to increase fuel/boost pressures.

The down side would be you would more than likely loose the multifuel capability and it wouldn't start as well.

 

[Trudge]

got pics of the oilers?

 

[ttfiveohranger]

We didn't take pictures.. it was basically a spider of small metal tubes with T's and distribution blocks... tested with air over hydraulic with a few different fluid viscosity and pressures to simulate the fluid warming up etc.. You don't want to ever starve anything else of oil.. careful where you tap in,how big your openings are and how aimed.. make sure everything has enough mounting points.. Small steel lines would hold there shape better and may require less bracing than copper.. For jets / restrictions at the ends we took an even smaller metal pipe on the inside and crimped the pipe a bit right at the end... radius the "jet" in side with a knife. Clean up shavings well... Careful where you drill holes for routing. High volume oil pumps are good to have if possible... if you have fine enough jets you should be ok on flow.. I am a mad scientist ~way to many ideas for my own good..

 

[6X6 ALL THE WAY]

I haave 2 m35's. One runs like a champ and the other won't get out of its own way. I have not messed with them. I know a guy that has 5ton turbo, injectors and pump in his m35. He claims on the dyno it made 318 hp. he getting reafy to build another one for a 5 tonner.

 

[yeager1]

The first thing I would do to get more power out of it would be to lower the compression

A "thick" head gasket would solve this. They are common for many makes of performance cars for people that are super/turbo charging them. Basically it spaces the head up higher and lowers the compression ratio. Does anyone make one for the multi? It would greatly improve the engine life.

Also, as far as over reving, what do others consider over reving? Going past the rev limiter downshifting/downhills, or just running down the highway at 2500 revs?

 

[Dodge man]

A "thick" head gasket would solve this. They are common for many makes of performance cars for people that are super/turbo charging them. Basically it spaces the head up higher and lowers the compression ratio.

In high performance cars we used to just install two (and sometimes more!) head gaskets to lower the compression ratio. But as high as it is on the MF it may blow the gasket.

 

[tm america]

A stock multi is between 11-13 psi at 140 hp some run less alot are around 6-7psi.i dont think doubling the boost doubles the hp as the air is hotter and less dense. If i put an inner cooler on mine i might be able to run more fuel than i am now and possibly get mine up around 250hp .But i would have to do something with the air cleaner to as it is the limiting factor for me right now..i would love to see some dyno numbers on one like mine and one turned up even more.the problem is the things that make it a multifuel make it hard to safely get alot of power out of it

 

[jimk]

Page 33 of the LDS-465-1 (June 69) troubleshooting manual states manifold pressure is to be set at 18-20" Hg at 2400rpm, full load. This is about 9-10 psi.

Page 9 states the HP is 170-185 at 2600rpm

The graph on page viii shows a 10hp increase between 2400 and 2600rpm.

A 200 rpm increase at 2400rpm would increase manifold pressure a couple psi

The manual can been downloaded on this page:
Steel Soldiers :: Military Vehicles Supersite

 

[JasonS]

The LD/LDT lacks piston coolers .

There are five LDTs sitting in my shed. Each one has the external valving for piston squirter. That would suggest that they have the piston squirters. The oil channel in the LDS piston gives a 100F reduction in ring land temperature and was advertised as allowing the use of a poorer quality oil. (from Continental's docs). Doesn't seem too significant to me. Continental also claimed to have operated the multi at 250HP and 550 lbft.

 

[jimk]

Thanks for clearing up my error

Perhaps the older engines lacked them

 

[m16ty]

Continental also claimed to have operated the multi at 250HP and 550 lbft.

Interesting. I wonder if the 250hp number was a test for a short period or a real world operating test. I know you can get some crazy hp out of any engine for a short period (drag cars and pulling trucks/tractors) but they wouldn't make it to the store without blowing up in real world dirving.

I'd like to know more about the Continental docs on the multifuel engine.


My LDT is maxing out at about 7psi. ("C" turbo) and I can hit 1,000deg EGT on a long hill at it's current settings. I wanting to play with the fuel a little but I'm only 300deg before meltdown.

 

[JasonS]

They don't say how or for how long. The last part says that 300hp is believed possible while retaining full multifuel capabilities. That suggests the same high compression and combustion chamber design.

 

[hklvette]

There are five LDTs sitting in my shed. Each one has the external valving for piston squirter. That would suggest that they have the piston squirters. The oil channel in the LDS piston gives a 100F reduction in ring land temperature and was advertised as allowing the use of a poorer quality oil. (from Continental's docs). Doesn't seem too significant to me. Continental also claimed to have operated the multi at 250HP and 550 lbft.

Are they all one particular variety of LDT, or different versions? My Deuce has a -1D engine in it, and I'm curious if it has the squirters or not.

 

[JasonS]

Thanks for clearing up my error

Perhaps the older engines lacked them

The evidence "suggests" that they have them but I can't say with any certainty. I have a buddy who has to replace the pan on an LDT1C and he will check and see. I THINK that the only salient feature of the LDS rotating assembly is the cooling channel for the top ring (Continental's paper doesn't mention any special piston coatings etc). The fact that this was done to allow for poorer quality oil and only results in a 100F drop makes me think that the LDT need not be dismissed so easily.

 

[Trudge]

JASONS can u post a pic? so i can tell what im looking at? what year are those motors?

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I have turned up my Deuce . you just have to remember that a deuce is NOT a Race Truck .
on that note if you do the turn up RIGHT !!!!!!!!! you can run 60-65 mph and have more torque than you need .
I have done mine and I love it I run the 395s witch are close to a 1400 , mine DEUCE will run 65+ at 2450/3000 rpms if I push it

Are you saying that you run your engine up to 3,000 RPM???

 

[dittle]

My LDT is maxing out at about 7psi. ("C" turbo) and I can hit 1,000deg EGT on a long hill at it's current settings. I wanting to play with the fuel a little but I'm only 300deg before meltdown.

Mine was maxed out at 8 PSI before I bypassed the FDC. Had it out over the weekend and running down the interstate it will cruise around 5 - 7 PSI. Only when accelerating HARD does my boost go very high and at that I try to keep it at 12 PSI or below and that is for short periods of time only. Went up some inclines on the interstate without moving the accelerator I maintained speed but my boost went up to about 8/9 PSI. I do only have to have 3/4 throttle now to run 2400/2500 RPM unlike before the bypass it was to the floor. Not worried about melting anything as I'm not staying in it hard enough long enough to do any damage (figure 10 seconds max at a time).

 

[tm america]

Ya 3000rpm sounds like a boom waiting to happen . I wonder if you could get some better rods or lighter pistons to be able to safely rev one to 3000-3200. That would be a huge difference in hp at those rpms.My truck would probably be at like 40 psi of boost or more.

 

[M54a2weasel]

 

[LovinPSDs]

I'm willing to bet 40 PSI Is EXTREMELY far out of the effiecency range of that turbo and will yeild VERY high egt's and not the HP you are looking for. However it does seem like if a set of lighter/stronger rods and pistions could be made you would be in good shape. If you are looking into new pistions there no reason why you shouldn't shave a point or two off that compression ratio tho. That will allow you to handle the boost you want and keep the head gaskets in tact. I don't know to much about multifulers but I don't think one or 2 points of compression will effect the multi fuel status. I know i have put vegi oil in an older ford diesel, don't they run around 16 to1?


If I was willing to try and figure this out I would but I have been thinking there are lots of small tweaks that you could do these motors to really make them alot better. I don't even have a deuce but if I get one I'll be looking for a spare motor to mess with.

A few things I have been thinking about...
1. Drop compression slightly... I'm not sure what a heavier gasket + alil polishing would yeild... need to take the time to do the math here. Unless someone smart wants to jump in.
2. Port/polish up the exhuast manifolds and all piping turbo related. Also ceramic coat them or thermal wrap them. This will help in turbo spool up and make your horsepower useable sooner.
3. Bigger intake, There was a thread about the big K&N filter.. This could never hurt if these vehicles are being run around farms and town, not the deserts and extreme conditions.
4. Intercooler, to not effect spool up to much (mount as close as possible to turbo) a water to air cooler could be made. I have no experience with W to A coolers but I know they run them on pulling trucks so they should be plenty (if built right) to cool the charger air
5. water injection.. only problem is this takes you back to raising cylinder/compression forces...thats one of the things we were trying to bring down.
6. Anyway to bypass coolant flow to the intake? I'm not familar enough with the set up so I'll ask. I don't see any problems with is as most of the US probly doesn't need this.. (guys up north which seems to be alot of you, how hard do these trucks start in the winter?)


I had a few others but these are just off the top of my head. Anyone feel free to comment on these. My theory is that on a motor not making huge power a combo of many small things will actually yield a noticeable change and make the truck more fun to drive.