May have screwed the pooch with WMO

[Josh]

Change the primary filter again, its more then likly clogged again. When water ended up in my tank, my truck did the same thing.

Did any of the oil you pour in have a brownish tint? If so, had some water mixed in.

 

[Beerslayer]

Seems like the potential issue of injector and pump wear due to carbon and metal particles has not been mentioned in this thread.

Just because the deuce will burn WMO or crude oil or hot chicken fat doesn't mean that it is a good idea. WMO usually contains a high concentration of carbon and metal particles, depending on what it was run in.

Last I heard, Pantyhose will let just about anything through. Good thing or I wouldn't have so many children.

So when you dump waste whatever into your fuel tank through a coarse strainer, you are contaminating your whole fuel system with junk that will wear out your injectors and pump. The stock filters on the deuce are good for what? 20 microns? That is fine for clean fuel as it sorts out the rust flakes from steel tanks, and boogers from PFCs, but it is not designed to filter out fine abrasive carbon soot particles from WMO out of a diesel engine. Nor is the stock filter system capable of filtering out the wear metal particles suspended in the oil from normal engine wear.

People do get away with dumping in some WMO from their Dodge minivan or whatever and burning it up in the deuce and thinking all is good because the truck didn't immediately break down;;; but there is a cost associated with that practice. Sooner or later, probably sooner, the fuel system on that nice truck is going to take a crap.

I would hate to be the third owner of that truck

This is why there are endless discussions in Alternative Fuels of the Best Way to filter WMO. The oil burns great, but you gots to get almost all of the crap out of it before you dump it in the tank or the truck will break down really soon, and probably at the most inconvenient moment. Like when you are on the way to the store to get more beer.

I really don't think the wife or GF's pantyhose is good for much other than the original intended purpose. YMMV.

 

[paulfarber]

The carbon in used oil is less than 1 micron... so unless you centrifuge it or polish it through multiple 1 micron filter passes its always there.

I don't think that it would wipe out a IP that quick... unless it was on the edge of failure anyway.

My take is is gear oil is typically 80/90 weigh. Engine oil is typically 30W or 15/40. Viscosity is the internal resistance to flow... so you simply have a thicker fuel oil trying to go places designed for a much thinner one.

Take a sample from your primary filter (you do at the first start of the day, right?) and let it settle to see if any free water appears. Then check the color. Should be jet black (gear oil typically will not alter the color or used oil). If its not then you have emulsified water and need to dump the tank.

I burn gear oil and other than a little more smoke that usual I notice nothing unusual.

 

[Jimma]

Also, when using small jugs of oil or waste products dont use all of the contents. When someone brings it to me I let it sit, then leave about the bottom inch or two depending on how it looks. If you are struggling when using it I have found it beneficial when the water content is higher than normal to stop occasionally and drain the primary fuel filter.

 

[chicklin]

That is NOT one of intended uses as a lubricant...

Haha....even funnier due to the dog in your avatar pic. I feel like he's judging me.

 

[stumps]

...My take is is gear oil is typically 80/90 weigh. Engine oil is typically 30W or 15/40. Viscosity is the internal resistance to flow... so you simply have a thicker fuel oil trying to go places designed for a much thinner one....

The SAE number sequence between gear oil and motor oil is not sequential. SAE30 motor oil is somewhere between SAE80 and SAE90 gear oil.

Here is some info from the chart in Machinery's Handbook:

Viscosity in Centistokes at (100F/210F) :

Motor oils
---------------------------------
SAE 10W = 41 / 6.0
SAE 20W = 71 / 8.5
SAE30 = 114 / 11.2
SAE 40 = 173 / 14.5
SAE 50 = 270 / 19.5

Gear oils
---------------------------------
SAE 75 = 47 / 7.0
SAE 80 = 69 / 8.0
SAE 90 = 285 / 20.5
SAE 140 = 725 / 34.0
SAE 250 = 1220 / 47.0

Notice that the viscosity of:

SAE10W motor oil is nearly identical to SAE75 gear oil
SAE20W motor oil is nearly identical to SAE80 gear oil
SAE30 and SAE40 motor oil are between SAE80 and SAE90 gear oil
SAE50 motor oil is nearly identical to SAE90 gear oil.

-Chuck

 

[oddshot]

Also, when using small jugs of oil or waste products dont use all of the contents.

When someone brings it to me I let it sit, then leave about the bottom inch or two depending on how it looks.

Words of wisdom there.

Also ... if you are picking up WMO in bulk ... leave about 6 inches in the donor's tank.

There is some nasty stuff down at the bottom of container, drums and tanks.

I just finished 5 weeks of classes down in Marietta ... I put about 1,500 miles on my Deuce ... and maybe burned about $120. in clean diesel ... the rest was all various types of waste oils ... a lot of ATF and WMO ... and some gear lube... somewhat less than 40 gallons per week.

The truck ran GREAT both on the highway and up here in the hills... no problems at all.

As long as you filter this stuff properly ... you should have no problems.

Why not go down to the "alternative fuels" thread and pick up some pointers on using filter bags. It could save you a LOT of trouble.

oddshot

 

[abh3]

Amen to the 'filter, filter, filter' mantra. I've run a lot of lubricants, from WMO to H32 hydraulic through a multi over the years and haven't had the failures forecast by some. I filter w/ coarse, 5 and then 1 micron sock type filters, a pain but then the fuels didn't cost anything either! I try not to go over 50/50 WO/diesel ratio, especially if we are expecting a cold snap.

Also, if you have a DOT number on your truck, like my M35 dump, be careful about ANY alternative fuel if your state is anal about untaxed fuel like Alybammy w/ road-blocks to dip tanks, etc. looking for red offroad fuel; there is the possibility that you could be ticked for untaxed fuel!

 

[chicklin]

Why not go down to the "alternative fuels" thread and pick up some pointers on using filter bags. It could save you a LOT of trouble.

oddshot

I definitely will, this was just sort of a one-off deal to dispose of some old goop. I did leave some in the bottom of each jug, so hopefully that helped reduce the amount of sludge (and the pantyhose caught a lot of "stuff" too).

 

[paulfarber]

The SAE number sequence between gear oil and motor oil is not sequential. SAE30 motor oil is somewhere between SAE80 and SAE90 gear oil.

Here is some info from the chart in Machinery's Handbook:

Viscosity in Centistokes at (100F/210F) :

Motor oils
---------------------------------
SAE 10W = 41 / 6.0
SAE 20W = 71 / 8.5
SAE30 = 114 / 11.2
SAE 40 = 173 / 14.5
SAE 50 = 270 / 19.5

Gear oils
---------------------------------
SAE 75 = 47 / 7.0
SAE 80 = 69 / 8.0
SAE 90 = 285 / 20.5
SAE 140 = 725 / 34.0
SAE 250 = 1220 / 47.0

Notice that the viscosity of:

SAE10W motor oil is nearly identical to SAE75 gear oil
SAE20W motor oil is nearly identical to SAE80 gear oil
SAE30 and SAE40 motor oil are between SAE80 and SAE90 gear oil
SAE50 motor oil is nearly identical to SAE90 gear oil.

-Chuck

Maybe its the additives then... but I cannot filter gear oil as quick as motor oil. Gear oil will almost ball up in the poly filter and take much longer to get through a 5 and 1 micron filter. Oil I essentially pour through. These bag filters are much finer mesh than anything in the deuce.

 

[mobileauto2000]

I have noticed that too Paul.

I some times wonder if its because used motor oil has been diluted with fuel.

Or it may be we just get use to 5-30 or 10-30 being so thin.

Luke 18:2-5 saying: "There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man.
Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, 'Get justice for me from my adversary.'
And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, 'Though I do not fear God nor regard man,
yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.' "

 

[stumps]

Maybe its the additives then... but I cannot filter gear oil as quick as motor oil. Gear oil will almost ball up in the poly filter and take much longer to get through a 5 and 1 micron filter. Oil I essentially pour through. These bag filters are much finer mesh than anything in the deuce.

First, do you remember a conversation we had about deuce transmissions, and GL5 vs SAE40 or SAE50 motor oil?

Your observation with the filters is some of that hard evidence you were demanding of me.

The EP additives in gear oils, such as GL5, behave more like a liquid grease than like a motor oil. They do not flow into tiny spaces as well as non EP gear oils, or motor oils.... (such as the starved out 2nd gear bearing in the deuce transmission). EP gear oils also sludge up beautifully when emulsified with water.

-Chuck

 

[Billy Bobbed]

I just got 45 gallons of WMO,1 30 gallon and 1 15 gallon barrels.I let them sit for a week then I pump them from the bottom into a oil drain pan so I can see whats in the barrel that Im going to use.I want to get all the bad stuff out till the good oil comes out,so there is no surprises whats in the oil because all the bad stuff is at the bottom.I keep using the oil pan to put it in my 55 gallon barrel using a paint strainer. Then I use a paint strainer to pump them into 2 gallon jugs to put them in my truck.The 55 gallon barrel I dont pump from the bottom,I pump it from the top to the bottom.Each barrel I got 1 gallon of water,the guy told me it was clean oil,not.I have been burning WMO for 2 years mixed with gas or diesel,the only filter I use is a paint strainer only.I have only changed my fuel filters 3 times,the first 1 was when I got the truck.I dont have a performance issue,sometimes it takes longer to start untill I put a little more diesel in it then good to go.

 

[chicklin]

Pulled some fuel out of the primary filter tonight and it's running much thinner. I think one of the biggest problems was dumping all that WMO in on top of the diesel and not mixing it up. After driving it last night and letting it sit (and adding some gas) I think it's had a chance to mix and thin out a little. I'll take a test drive later and see if it's better.

No water in the fuel from the primary, as far as I can tell.

 

[abh3]

To quote all those old Caterpillar fuel caps "Buy clean fuel, keep fuel clean"!

 

[chicklin]

To quote all those old Caterpillar fuel caps "Buy clean fuel, keep fuel clean"!

Good advice. Went for a drive and it was still sluggish at first, even after getting good and warmed up. However, I was able to squeeze another 8 gallons of clean diesel in the tank and that made an almost immediate improvement. I'd say I got about half of the power loss back within a couple minutes of doing that.

I'm going to try and drive it a bunch each evening and back fill with clean diesel each time until it's back to normal. Probably change the primary when I get close.

 

[wreckerman893]

I think the blending is very important when using a mixture of fuels (diesel, WMO, WVO, etc.).

I seldom dump anything except straight diesel into the deuce tank......I have a 55 gallon mixer drum for small batches of fuel. I pump/pour the different fuels into the drum and then, using my 12 volt pump, mix the fuel for around 10 minutes. Adding a few gallons of gas really thins out the mixture and, IMHO, helps the fuel stay mixed.

 

[oddshot]

I think the blending is very important when using a mixture of fuels (diesel, WMO, WVO, etc.).

I seldom dump anything except straight diesel into the deuce tank......I have a 55 gallon mixer drum for small batches of fuel. I pump/pour the different fuels into the drum and then, using my 12 volt pump, mix the fuel for around 10 minutes. Adding a few gallons of gas really thins out the mixture and, IMHO, helps the fuel stay mixed.

On the other hand,

... and I know that I don't have anywhere near the miles that wreckerman has...

but I've put over 5,000 miles on my Deuce since February.

I changed the fuel filters on the truck when I bought it ... and have been running on *MAYBE* a 85 to 15 mix of WMO (ATF, 90wt gear lube, hydraulic oil of various grade, etc) to diesel. Sometimes its a LOT closer to 90/10.

I DO filter the living chit outta my WMO ... and I am VERY careful about water and antifreeze.

My truck is about as "daily driven" as it can get ... and I do a real mix of highway, hill, and city driving.

I've had ZERO fuel problems ... except for one time when I developed a leak and ran outta fuel.

True: my MPG's ain't as high as some people SAY they get ... the last couple of tank fulls I'm up to just a tick over 8 MPG. If you get behind me on the way down to Marietta, Ga ... there ain't no way you're going to go faster then 51 to 52 MPHs. And I lollygag up every hill in NoGa. Just to get the MPG's and to save my motor.

I'm knockin' on wood ... and thanking' the baby Jesus for every mile I'm gettin' outta WMO.

oddshot

 

[scranch18121]

I don't think gear oil would necessarily be bad, maybe just limit it to a quart or two per tank. I would think the panty hose filter might be more of a problem, depending on who had worn them previously....

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!

 

[G-Force]

So did you give her back the pantyhose after you used them???