Cm131
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Although in fairness reading schematics I am schematically challenged.
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MEP- 002a losing 24v power at start-up?? POWER ISSUE SOLVED!
- Thread starter Cm131
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When going to start, you should get 24v to 11-13-15 and 25-27-28.
13 is attached to 14. I would recommend taking 1 wire off at a time to see if the short is in the switch or in one of the circuits
Cm131
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Ok thank you. That gives me somewhere to start again. I will check these out most likely Sunday as it’s going to rain all day tomorrow. I will post my findings.
Cm131
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Also when I test the Cr-1 and Cr-3 if one or the other is bad does anyone know if there any available replacements for these items??
Triple Jim
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This can't be a short circuit problem or he'd either have a breaker tripping or wires burning. It must be an intermittently open circuit or partially open circuit.
Cm131
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Guys with all of the help I believe I’m getting close. Can anyone tell me where the battery neg. Lead goes from the starter. I believe I have the style I starter. The diagram shows two grounds but I only have one from the neg terminal at bay. To the neg post on starter. If I apply a ground from the neg. Post at the battery to frame I get all of my 24v power back. I think I might just need to ground the battery to the frame.
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Cm131
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Cm131
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I just found a large wire that was tucked up under the frame of the machine near the bottom of the engine. It runs from the ground lug at the front almost all the way to the engine. It has a big lug. I’m assuming it suppose to connect to the neg side of the battery. If I touch it to the neg side of the battery I get all my 24v power back. I just want to make sure I’m correct with this as I don’t want to cause more issues. But it makes since that I would get power sometimes when I bumped the starter as I see it where the cable was tucked under occasionally would make soft contact to the frame. Can anyone advise. Thanks a lot. I’m close to having her running today.
Cm131
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Actually I believe the cable I found goes to the neg side of the solenoid with the negative bat cable. It fits like a glove there.
Chainbreaker
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Yes, there is a large white wire coming off the Negative terminal of starter that goes to the "Chassis GND" on frame below Control box. The other large white wire is the positive that goes to the "Slave Recptacle"
I'm not where I can access my manuals to get actual wire numbers but does this help:
I'm not where I can access my manuals to get actual wire numbers but does this help:
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Chainbreaker
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Cm131
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Chainbreaker thanks for the photos. Mine looked very similar!! PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! Turned out to be the ground from the lug someone had disconnected at some point and it got tucked under the machine out of sight and out of mind. I have full 24v all the time now.
I was able to get her up and running. It was a struggle at first but I got. It ran rough for about 3 mins and then drastically improved. I ran it for about 30 mins no load VR and capacitor are shot anyways. Then I start running rough. The only way I can describe it is it sounded like it was starving for fuel and going back and forth from what I would describe as running lean and then really rich with whit smoke. It would just about shut off then pick up speed and do it all over again. By the end it was sounding bad. I cut it off. I confirmed fuel at several places including before and after he IP. I took the injectors out last week and clean what I could. I didn’t mess with the large hex or Allen screw. Anyways I took them out again and they appeared to be bluish and heavy soot.
So my new question is who rebuilds them or sells kit/new ones. If I need to start a new thread I can. Just trying to keep this journey on one thread if possible. Not sure where to go next. All lines are clear. The check valve cleaned, IP has fuel both top and bottom. New fuel pump, new fuel filters(x2) Glow plugs are starting to show cracks so I have new ones on the way. New air filter, fresh oil , oil pressure around 35-38ish
Also since I got the machine I have put around 7hrs on it.
2hrs trying to start/diagnose
3.5hrs (.5 ran rough but cleared out) 3hrs it ran beautifully perfect
1.5hrs today after getting the power back but now runs rough and appears to have burned the nozzles from heat or in burnt fuel?
I was able to get her up and running. It was a struggle at first but I got. It ran rough for about 3 mins and then drastically improved. I ran it for about 30 mins no load VR and capacitor are shot anyways. Then I start running rough. The only way I can describe it is it sounded like it was starving for fuel and going back and forth from what I would describe as running lean and then really rich with whit smoke. It would just about shut off then pick up speed and do it all over again. By the end it was sounding bad. I cut it off. I confirmed fuel at several places including before and after he IP. I took the injectors out last week and clean what I could. I didn’t mess with the large hex or Allen screw. Anyways I took them out again and they appeared to be bluish and heavy soot.
So my new question is who rebuilds them or sells kit/new ones. If I need to start a new thread I can. Just trying to keep this journey on one thread if possible. Not sure where to go next. All lines are clear. The check valve cleaned, IP has fuel both top and bottom. New fuel pump, new fuel filters(x2) Glow plugs are starting to show cracks so I have new ones on the way. New air filter, fresh oil , oil pressure around 35-38ish
Also since I got the machine I have put around 7hrs on it.
2hrs trying to start/diagnose
3.5hrs (.5 ran rough but cleared out) 3hrs it ran beautifully perfect
1.5hrs today after getting the power back but now runs rough and appears to have burned the nozzles from heat or in burnt fuel?
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Cm131
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P.S. I reached out to storeman but no response yet. Not sure if he is still around based off of the history of his post or He might just be busy.
Chainbreaker
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Sounds like you have multiple issues to deal with & sort through.
Glad the electrical continuity issue has been resolved. In post # 9 above I responded I thought it could be related to a ground strap issue, turns out it wasn't the braided gnd straps I mentioned... it was at the starter all along with gnd cable detached causing intermittent grounding.
@Ray70 rebuilds injectors. "Storeman" has been long gone from the forums. However, not sure you're ready to declare the injectors in need of a rebuild. You may have injector or governor adjustment issues. Sound like you are describing the engine "hunting" if RPM's are increasing/decreasing. If that's what is really occuring that is a governor setting issue... as in spring & star washer settings for governor arm.
Glad the electrical continuity issue has been resolved. In post # 9 above I responded I thought it could be related to a ground strap issue, turns out it wasn't the braided gnd straps I mentioned... it was at the starter all along with gnd cable detached causing intermittent grounding.
@Ray70 rebuilds injectors. "Storeman" has been long gone from the forums. However, not sure you're ready to declare the injectors in need of a rebuild. You may have injector or governor adjustment issues. Sound like you are describing the engine "hunting" if RPM's are increasing/decreasing. If that's what is really occuring that is a governor setting issue... as in spring & star washer settings for governor arm.
Cm131
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Sounds like you have multiple issues to deal with & sort through.
Glad the electrical continuity issue has been resolved. In post # 9 above I responded I thought it could be related to a ground strap issue, turns out it wasn't the braided gnd straps I mentioned... it was at the starter all along with gnd cable detached causing intermittent grounding.
@Ray70 rebuilds injectors. "Storeman" has been long gone from the forums. However, not sure you're ready to declare the injectors in need of a rebuild. You may have injector or governor adjustment issues. Sound like you are describing the engine "hunting" if RPM's are increasing/decreasing. If that's what is really occuring that is a governor setting issue... as in spring & star washer settings for governor arm.
Cm131
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Chain breaker,
yes you were heading me I. The right direction all along. I thought about all day yesterday and never new there was a missing cable. As far as hunting it will start and sometimes I have full throttle and sometimes it will not go above 55hz. But whatever it decides to run at it will for a while then just big down. Not very consistent with RPMS. I have adjusted the spring from too to bottom multiple times. Slight initial changes then back to bogging down. I did remove the IP nut,spring and nozzle. Had plenty of flow and no trash. I began wondering is it possible that the timing could h e got thrown off? Is there a guide to checking the timing or setting it on an already installed pump? I did make sure again that the plunger is moving in and out as well as rotating. When I remove the top fuel injector lines and spin the motor I do get a small mount of diesel squirt as the motor cycles over. Small amount but I don’t remember how much I had before. Just seems like it’s starving of fuel and then loads up before bogging down. Baffles me as a week ago I had it running perfect. This is the first diesel I have ever worked on. I’m trying to eventually use this for backup power. Thanks for all the help this far from everyone. It made me feel better knowing people don’t mind helping. Without this site I’m at the end of my diesel mechanic career!!!
yes you were heading me I. The right direction all along. I thought about all day yesterday and never new there was a missing cable. As far as hunting it will start and sometimes I have full throttle and sometimes it will not go above 55hz. But whatever it decides to run at it will for a while then just big down. Not very consistent with RPMS. I have adjusted the spring from too to bottom multiple times. Slight initial changes then back to bogging down. I did remove the IP nut,spring and nozzle. Had plenty of flow and no trash. I began wondering is it possible that the timing could h e got thrown off? Is there a guide to checking the timing or setting it on an already installed pump? I did make sure again that the plunger is moving in and out as well as rotating. When I remove the top fuel injector lines and spin the motor I do get a small mount of diesel squirt as the motor cycles over. Small amount but I don’t remember how much I had before. Just seems like it’s starving of fuel and then loads up before bogging down. Baffles me as a week ago I had it running perfect. This is the first diesel I have ever worked on. I’m trying to eventually use this for backup power. Thanks for all the help this far from everyone. It made me feel better knowing people don’t mind helping. Without this site I’m at the end of my diesel mechanic career!!!
Cm131
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Also I do have the Ambac 50 pump. I was also wondering if those cracking glow plugs were causing some of the issue. Is there a cross reference for the glow plugs. I had found the Champion 182’s but it will be a while before they arrive. I have off work tomorrow and would like to get back to working on it. If there is some other plugs that will work I might could grab them tomorrow as well.
Cm131
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Also today it seemed the head was getting pretty hot as it would smoke a little after shutting off. Didn’t do that before or when running correctly.Louvers opened 1/4 -1/2” no load.
Chainbreaker
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Couple of things... Don't trust the onboard Panel Hz meter. The sender or gauge itself can go bad. I would use a Kill-A-Watt meter, or the like, to verify all Hz & Voltage readings.
As you indicated the Control Box has been replaced & the Mfg Placard is probably associated with the Genset it was taken off of. So, the date stamped on it would be meaningless. From the looks of it I would say your unit is in the range of the early to mid 80's.
I must confess I have limited mechanical knowledge with the "Injection Pump & injectors". I am fortunate that all my gensets start reliably & run within parameters so far... knock on wood! Although I've familiarized myself with the IJ pump & injectors inner workings from several excellent SS threads where they dive deep into the IJ pump rebuilds, etc. and would not fear "hands on troubleshooting" them on my gensets.
Thus, I cannot determine if your present generator's sporadic engine issues are caused by the injectors, IJ pump or....? Perhaps someone @Ray70 or @jamawieb can better direct you towards troubleshooting tips to pinpoint the engine bogging down & RPM issues you are experiencing.
As you indicated the Control Box has been replaced & the Mfg Placard is probably associated with the Genset it was taken off of. So, the date stamped on it would be meaningless. From the looks of it I would say your unit is in the range of the early to mid 80's.
I must confess I have limited mechanical knowledge with the "Injection Pump & injectors". I am fortunate that all my gensets start reliably & run within parameters so far... knock on wood! Although I've familiarized myself with the IJ pump & injectors inner workings from several excellent SS threads where they dive deep into the IJ pump rebuilds, etc. and would not fear "hands on troubleshooting" them on my gensets.
Thus, I cannot determine if your present generator's sporadic engine issues are caused by the injectors, IJ pump or....? Perhaps someone @Ray70 or @jamawieb can better direct you towards troubleshooting tips to pinpoint the engine bogging down & RPM issues you are experiencing.
2Pbfeet
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White smoke in a diesel is generally cold fuel, i.e. not fully combusted. Often the cause is a bad injector that is overfueling a cylinder, but a cold engine can do it for a while, and I have it happen with bad rings. Overfueling in general, due to an air leak in the fuel line, or a bad injection pump or bad injector is prone to causing overheating.
So from your description, I would be looking to make sure that your fuel lines and injectors are ok.
FWIW: Here are a couple of links to guides on mapping smoke color to issues;
learndiesels.com
www.allbaydiesel.com
All the best,
2Pbfeet
So from your description, I would be looking to make sure that your fuel lines and injectors are ok.
FWIW: Here are a couple of links to guides on mapping smoke color to issues;
Diesel Smoke Diagnosis Guide - White, Grey, Black, Blue - learn diesels
We are going to cover the main types of diesel smoke and the causes in this article. If you are […]
learndiesels.com
Diesel Smoke: What Do The Colors Mean? | All Bay Diesel
Diesel smoke can alert you to all sorts of things, including potential issues. Here's what your diesel smoke colors mean by the experts at All Bay Diesel.
www.allbaydiesel.com
All the best,
2Pbfeet