MEP 802A/803A replacemet Radiator possibilities?

[Renee]

Hi Guys-

I have a 802A and a 803A both down due to radiator issues. leaking at the header from corrosion.
Quote from a local radiator shop to re-core is $700 + tx....ouch...way to much....
I have been thinking on using a radiator out of a VW, bad news is the core is 12"x 17" or 12x 20.5", good news they are dual pass and the I/O are 1 1/4¨. I can fab an inlet M22x1.5 to 1 inch nipple and use a Honda or Suzuki fill port cost is under $150 plus time

so the mod is flip 180 degrees make mounts and fill the space above and below to mount the shroud on the 12x17 rad and just let the air flow do its thing .....most likely fine for the 2 cy 802A.??????

.... but the 803A what to do?...

someone with some thermal design background?

If I use the 12x20 it will require a new shroud and cut out the opening to accommodate width for air flow- may have to move the fuel pump and coolant overflow if much total OAW of 23¨

oh other option is Griffin or other custom shop to make rad

the issue is as told to me 16x16 core is not available ( at least is AL)

I did find a poor quality drawing with physical specs.
Specs on OEM Rad
core 16x16 x1.57 inch
2 row 36 tubes
fins are 8 to 12 / inch

Thoughts are greatly appreciated.....as fire season is here in CA.

Thanks

Renée

 

[Light in the Dark]

802 and 803 are specified with the same radiator, so if it works for one it should work for the other. I've been in talks with a few OEM manufacturers to get drop in replacements made, but the price points are about where you were quoted for a refurb.

I know these are going to be an issue as the TQG line ages, which is why I've already started down this road.

 

[Renee]

I am hoping someone else had gone down this or a similar road so I did not have to completely ¨ reinvent the wheel" . I know different radiators are done all the time in engine swaps, racing etc.....but this is a bit different environment.

I had done a search on the threads and noted you had done some inquiries. thank you! saved me doing same.

after the re core quote figured it was going to be an issue and decided it was time to
a. ask for more knowledge/ help
b. find a reasonable common replacement and not a unicorn.

Thermal issues - the 2cyl vs 4cyl the easy way during design was to use the same part(s). cheaper and easier no new specs/ mfg /qualifications which is what was done.
I believe the design was for the 4cy (803A) first then build a smaller version without a full redesign and it made sense to use as many parts for both for field repairs plus easier to stock.
Surely both do not need the same thermal cooling after all 10kw/4cyl vs 5KW/2cyl...my guess is 25 to 35% less on the smaller gen would be ample.
this is where my thermal dynamics knowledge gets dodgy. Hoping an engineer with the proper background will pop in with assistance.
the other issue is an Alum Rad will necessitate different coolant for corrosion issues.

my 803A...I may well have little or no choice and just re core---it is a sweet machine!
my 802A is just finally getting ready to go online after poor storage in some bone yard with bad fuel causing complete re do of clogged fuel and injection system- it was a mess!

 

[loosegravel]

Yes indeed. Good radiator shops are going away just as fast as good machine shops. There used to be one in every city. I guess EPA and lack of knowledge has hurt both of those services.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I would think that for the duty cycle of a typical MEP, so long as you have a properly functioning thermostat... even if its oversized for the LPW2, the system should still perform properly. It will just more efficiently cool the LPW2.

 

[Renee]

I agree too big a radiator is not a major issue, it is when undersized the issue begins and temps rise ( working thermostat req´d in all cases).
We had on the farm an engine that was cooled by creek water running into a 50 gal drum ran great....mine have been known to run for a week solid due to lack of power....although typically shut it down for the night for 8 hours or so....
the overall design specs were most likely for harsh conditions like 125-130 F ( ~50C) ambient, continuous duty.
now the questions- what is/was the actual thermal design of the radiator to cool the beast under these worst conditions.
is it reasonable to obtain a pluck and chuck radiator and retrofit for a total of a lot less than the say $700 (enough to make it worthwhile like half so 350 and under ) at the same time an easy enough conversion for all of us to be able to do so when the time comes.

btw please lets not get into the political thing of electric cars towing a gen to keep it on the road or costs of manufacturing mining etc.....that is another rabbit hole pie in the sky discussion most likely best not for this forum/topic.

 

[jmenende]

Maybe these guys can help you out for the modest price of a few grand.

 

[Renee]

I took the radiators over to an old-fashioned Radiator repair shop ( Woodland CA)- hmmm ...¨lemme look and see what I can do¨....he "rebuilt" them for $300 each ( May 2023)....he mentioned that the Generators should have been running hot.....hmmmmm ...nope, not yet…he said they were plugged and full of gunk. So rebuild =. Full disassembly , "Rodded out" and fix leaks. The problems were plugged and corrosion at the place where tubes enter the headers ( leaking at those junctions- solder gone)....clean and reflow all solder....supposedly good as new good for 10 years+.......So at this time no need for VW radiators, although they should work just fine per two different radiator shops...but ,this is so much easier-in and out with no mods.
The only thing I wish was that my petcocks were same as original with the hose fitting...they were changed to normal car style....oh well...I get to make a mess... now to find a thermostat gasket....what vehicle does it match?
I did remove the winterization heater thingy in the 802a...stored away for now...not needed here
all the best everyone
R

 

[Mep-803aDad]

802 and 803 are specified with the same radiator, so if it works for one it should work for the other. I've been in talks with a few OEM manufacturers to get drop in replacements made, but the price points are about where you were quoted for a refurb.

I know these are going to be an issue as the TQG line ages, which is why I've already started down this road.

I know this is an old thread just curious on what aftermarket or alternate radiator can be used in the MEP-802 or 803.
@ Light in the Dark

 

[Light in the Dark]

I don't know of an aftermarket drop in. Are you having issues with your radiator?

 

[Mep-803aDad]

No not at this moment. Just trying to be proactive.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Well I got the pricing on if folks wanted to do a group buy (as I have overseen those in the past on MEP items) but I think the unit price is too much for most folks. It will be a problem in the future, but I'm not a bank. I'm still sitting on molded hose sets I had fabricated for these machines... have helped a lot of people, but with the devaluation of the dollar at rocket speed, its been an exercise more in patience than profit

 

[2Pbfeet]

I know this is an old thread just curious on what aftermarket or alternate radiator can be used in the MEP-802 or 803.
@ Light in the Dark

I would not overlook what a local radiator shop can do.

As these are left hand double pass radiators with a right hand 45 degree fill, it is not exactly a common design. I've never seen an exact drop in.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[98G]

I know this is an old thread just curious on what aftermarket or alternate radiator can be used in the MEP-802 or 803.
@ Light in the Dark

I've got a couple of these. No idea what would be involved in making them work in a MEP.

I've got a 3cyl 26hp Hatz that doesn't have a radiator, and got them for that.

 

[Renee]

I did extensive research and there are no drop-in replacement radiators, there are a few that will work, VW Scirocco, 1991 Mercedes 190E-2.6 are both double pass. There may be more...I was looking for reasonable cost and minimum mod.
the double pass has better cooling, being the coolant travels twice as far. Some of the larger single pass like for the trucks may work, but again mods will be required both hose length and chassis, and possibly an addition of a (pressurized) expansion tank.
One radiator shoppe mentioned he could make a radiator $$$$, so best easiest option is rebuild the original, cores are available, inlet/outlet/tanks are not.
hope that helps
Renée

 

[Renee]

I was just asked If I would share the info I gleaned etc - so the message was sent, and I thought everyone should have access…oh I run a Linux system in case someone's Win/Apple computer cannot open some of the files.
Here ya go-
Happy to share the drawing-info, do not know how to attach so much. However, here is what I found in the link below. It is most of the stuff I found during my searching....The "untitled" stuff is an attempt to clean the drawings for readability- the original was really poor.
I will leave this up for as long as possible, no expiration. Problems etc... lemme know.
Hope this helps
Renée

Here is the link and the password to access is MEP802-3-Radiator (just copy and paste)
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/d9b565b30/5rcgtxhc-c7h5mz7w-32bmwprj-iyntu9hr

 

[2Pbfeet]

If it gets right down to it, Keyser makes custom racing radiators, many of them in a 16" double pass, but not a drop in as their standard is 2.375" thick.
Custom quote form here;

https://fast-d7f5.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/RadiatorForm2024.pdf

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Light in the Dark]

Well I got the pricing on if folks wanted to do a group buy (as I have overseen those in the past on MEP items) but I think the unit price is too much for most folks. It will be a problem in the future, but I'm not a bank. I'm still sitting on molded hose sets I had fabricated for these machines... have helped a lot of people, but with the devaluation of the dollar at rocket speed, its been an exercise more in patience than profit

This guy

I believe I have made significant progress here, in where I see a major shortfall in the future on the parts side. For those interested, hold tight... might just have more up my sleeve.