Korgoth1
New member
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If you look up my old thread, the fuel rack is easily bent, causing the problems you are describing....
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MEP-803a Crankcase full of fuel...
- Thread starter rhurey
- Start date
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
While I've been worried about having bent the rack (and still am) I'm hopingjamawieb's right on this one and I'm still a bit lucky.
Looking at this photo, you can see how close the top of the pump is to the block.
And when I drop the pumps in and get them aligned in their slots in the rail, the pump has about 3/32nds of spring before it's flat against the block. Which seems to be about the depth of the rim on the thrust cup, or it's fitting into the tappet. If I remove the thrust cup and drop the pump in, it falls all the way to the rail, and the rail can move freely with the shutdown solenoid. So I'm suspecting the thrust cup either isn't aligned with the tappet (which seems difficult to get out of alignment) or that the pump is hanging up on the thrust cup and not dropping all the way in. Given the play in the spring at the bottom of the pump, this seems possible. Not sure how to adjust for that other than a lot of trial and error shifting the spring base around.
Looking at this photo, you can see how close the top of the pump is to the block.
And when I drop the pumps in and get them aligned in their slots in the rail, the pump has about 3/32nds of spring before it's flat against the block. Which seems to be about the depth of the rim on the thrust cup, or it's fitting into the tappet. If I remove the thrust cup and drop the pump in, it falls all the way to the rail, and the rail can move freely with the shutdown solenoid. So I'm suspecting the thrust cup either isn't aligned with the tappet (which seems difficult to get out of alignment) or that the pump is hanging up on the thrust cup and not dropping all the way in. Given the play in the spring at the bottom of the pump, this seems possible. Not sure how to adjust for that other than a lot of trial and error shifting the spring base around.
Attachments
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
And I'm now about 95% sure I managed to bend the rack. If I manage to get all 4 pumps aligned with the rack, one pops out the second I move the shut off solenoid to run.
I did once try to assemble the pumps with one at the high spot on the camshaft, so it pushed on the rack. Missed that page in the TM.
So I get to pull the gear cover off. Any good sources on gaskets? Or a cross reference from the Onan to LP part numbers?
Yippie for learning experiences...
I did once try to assemble the pumps with one at the high spot on the camshaft, so it pushed on the rack. Missed that page in the TM.
So I get to pull the gear cover off. Any good sources on gaskets? Or a cross reference from the Onan to LP part numbers?
Yippie for learning experiences...
Before you take the front apart, you may want to try and bend the rack back up with your fingers. If you know which pump bent it, then reach your fingers through the port on the motor and lift up with a lot of force. I bent the rack on one of my first 802a's and I did what I explained. It worked for me and the generator has performed flawlessly for the past few years.
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
That's not a bad idea. Should be able to fabricate something to pull with pretty easily. (And an excuse to use some of the new welder stuff I got.)
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
I'll take it.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnhaA1TwRcf6k7RQrcZPYonkeLEodQ
Load test tomorrow. Need to pull the Prime Rib out of the Sous Vide...
Merry Christmas.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnhaA1TwRcf6k7RQrcZPYonkeLEodQ
Load test tomorrow. Need to pull the Prime Rib out of the Sous Vide...
Merry Christmas.
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
Thought about it. Put all but the pump I messed up with back in. Verified the rack moved with just the one missing. Figured it was bent or it wasn't. But your logic made sense so stuck a J-hook into the pump hole and attached it to the rack. Pulled. The last pump dropped right in.
Went to see if they were all pumping fuel, and even with the injector lines loose it really wanted to run.
For the original problem? Torqued the pump I loosened the top of. Still working with the vendor to get a resolution on the whole replacement thing. I'd as soon have a spare as not if we can get it straight. Figure I'll find out tomorrow when I run it for decent time if its still leaking.
- 16,668
- 23,815
- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
Here's a hint. Getting one gasket is hard. No one wants to produce and sell just one. Its not cost effective. And no one, I mean no one, wants to break a set to give you a oil pump gasket. Frequently used gaskets, like valve cover, oil pan are not expensive and having one on hand, can save you lots of time and hassle. There is also glues and gasket dope you can get. Many people use only liquid or tube gasket products. I personally have had lots of good experiences with them. If you do a lot of this kind of work, you tend to have all sorts of products, for just the right job. Getting a standard "O" Ring kit is also not a bad idea. Or a make it yourself "O" Ring kit. CAT makes a nice one. Probably expensive, don't know, never paid for one!
Most, if not all engine manufacturers make gasket kits. I always like to have a kit on hand, to use for when in the "heat of the battle" and I needed one NOW. Paper gaskets, you can make easy. Get the right thickness paper, and lay out a cover, or part and trace it out. Where there are bolt holes, use a fine pencil and trace them out. Snap On, (and I am sure other cheaper companies) make a nice kit of hole punches made just for this in mind.
The possibilities are endless. Tapping out a gasket with a small ball peen hammer was a rite of passage when I started in the army. Every newbie had to do it before anyone trusted him with a real tool box. And, some of the best gasket material in the world is................................. The back cover of a army TM. No kidding. Most sets sold by manufacturers, have a small and big set. Big set meant for doing the whole engine, small set for things like valve cover, or oil pan, or front and rear mains. You can buy sheets of cork also. Then the punches come in real handy.
The initial cost for a big set may be a little high, but you have everything you need, right there. When you need just an oil pump gasket, its there. Use it and then you have all the time in the world to get a new one, no pressure. It just depends on how much time you have, I guess.
Most, if not all engine manufacturers make gasket kits. I always like to have a kit on hand, to use for when in the "heat of the battle" and I needed one NOW. Paper gaskets, you can make easy. Get the right thickness paper, and lay out a cover, or part and trace it out. Where there are bolt holes, use a fine pencil and trace them out. Snap On, (and I am sure other cheaper companies) make a nice kit of hole punches made just for this in mind.
The possibilities are endless. Tapping out a gasket with a small ball peen hammer was a rite of passage when I started in the army. Every newbie had to do it before anyone trusted him with a real tool box. And, some of the best gasket material in the world is................................. The back cover of a army TM. No kidding. Most sets sold by manufacturers, have a small and big set. Big set meant for doing the whole engine, small set for things like valve cover, or oil pan, or front and rear mains. You can buy sheets of cork also. Then the punches come in real handy.
The initial cost for a big set may be a little high, but you have everything you need, right there. When you need just an oil pump gasket, its there. Use it and then you have all the time in the world to get a new one, no pressure. It just depends on how much time you have, I guess.
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
Yeah, another lesson I'm learning.
- 2,530
- 2,055
- 113
- Location
- Efland, NC
+1 with Guyfang.
Check with your local rubber and gasket supply company. You can get sheets of material suitable for about any situatation you can think of. Along with some simple punches and chisels you can easily (and cost effectively) make your own.
Check with your local rubber and gasket supply company. You can get sheets of material suitable for about any situatation you can think of. Along with some simple punches and chisels you can easily (and cost effectively) make your own.
- 737
- 14
- 18
- Location
- Bothell, WA
And it ran ~7 hours with varying loads and the oil pressure is still ~60psi and no extra oil appeared.
So it's back on its trailer.
So it's back on its trailer.
Firebrand
Member
- 70
- 19
- 8
- Location
- Charlestown, NH
And then there's the old gasket material source right in the kitchen: cereal boxes! Yes, they frequently are the right size and can be easily used to make "heat of the battle" repairs when you need that one gasket that got used up or torn when making the repair earlier.
- 16,668
- 23,815
- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
Speaker of heat of the battle, I just uploaded the TM 9-6115-624-BD. The TM cover Battle Damage Repairs. Interesting read, but use with a grain of salt. These are TEMPORARY repairs, used only in critical situations, and in no way should they be applied without plans to follow up ASAP with a real repair. Good ideas in it, and list things we NEVER went to the field without. Never know when you need a few tricks up your sleeve.
sandmanxx
New member
- 81
- 3
- 0
- Location
- San Antonio/Tx
Hello All
Dealing with a 802 and the metering pumps right now. Few questions here:
From noting the comments on the metering pump moving when moving the solenoid linkage. Mine does not move at all. Did take a mirror
and look into hole. There is a slot/fork like slot somewhat right below the hold down bolt for metering pump... Is that where the pin on the
metering pump fits in??
When I move the solenoid linkage back and forth I don't see anything moving back and forth below?? What could be the issue??
Some side notes:
New to me 802
Tried to start and quickly realized the exhaust had water in it. ( Yes I forgot about that first thing to check when looking at a unknown unit )..
Took off injectors and valve covers and flushed out top cylinders. Did the oil change / cleaning to get any water out of crank case.
The engine does turn over with no issues. Replaced one electrical fuel pump. The control panel / wiring seems good because I can attempt
for start the unit.. The dead man switch over rides. The fuel sol. disengages etc.
One question if I am messed something up when trying to start the unit with water in top cylinder - what would get damaged / bent related
to the fuel rail system /etc.
Guess I should / "have to" pull the head and look at everything to make sure nothing got bent??
sandmanxx
New member
- 81
- 3
- 0
- Location
- San Antonio/Tx
Restated - approx how much does the the fuel rail slot move when one has a metering pump out and moves the sol lever back and forth.
As for my metering pumps guess they may have been out of pocket to begin with because they came right out after taking the hold down fork out.
** Didn't do anything to put the fuel rail in a "correct" position to get them out. If I remember I did do them one at a time lol.
As for my metering pumps guess they may have been out of pocket to begin with because they came right out after taking the hold down fork out.
** Didn't do anything to put the fuel rail in a "correct" position to get them out. If I remember I did do them one at a time lol.
sandmanxx
New member
- 81
- 3
- 0
- Location
- San Antonio/Tx
Note: Sorry if it seem I high jacked thread. I decided to open up my LPW4 and have a look at a working metering pump rack. I took a video
and will post in thread for a "FYI" how they look in action. That if if one one objects ?
Once you see one working - one of the mysteries the solved.
and will post in thread for a "FYI" how they look in action. That if if one one objects ?
Once you see one working - one of the mysteries the solved.
- 16,668
- 23,815
- 113
- Location
- Burgkunstadt, Germany
Shoot Luke, the geese is full of air! Means go for it.
Spud_Monkey
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- Port Angeles WA
I'm going to revive and pig tail on to this thread. Same problems a OP though different problems.
Put new injector metering pumps in, pulled one replaced it with new one after replacing shim with old shim got it all together put rubber lines on and kept the fuel lines cracked, no fuel coming out any of them. Got fuel feeding from the pump to rubber lines no problem. The real pickle is the far left one is stuck in as if the nipple that is below fuel metering cap. Can't turn it enough to get it to pop out.
Put new injector metering pumps in, pulled one replaced it with new one after replacing shim with old shim got it all together put rubber lines on and kept the fuel lines cracked, no fuel coming out any of them. Got fuel feeding from the pump to rubber lines no problem. The real pickle is the far left one is stuck in as if the nipple that is below fuel metering cap. Can't turn it enough to get it to pop out.
Did you try to crank the motor over to see if fuel comes out?I'm going to revive and pig tail on to this thread. Same problems a OP though different problems.
Put new injector metering pumps in, pulled one replaced it with new one after replacing shim with old shim got it all together put rubber lines on and kept the fuel lines cracked, no fuel coming out any of them. Got fuel feeding from the pump to rubber lines no problem. The real pickle is the far left one is stuck in as if the nipple that is below fuel metering cap. Can't turn it enough to get it to pop out.
For the stuck pump, I had to take the top of the pump apart to see the plunger. Then I stuck a strong magnetic inside on the plunger and rotated it clockwise so I could get the pump out. I've also had to use a small pick to turn the plunger on another unit. Make sure you keep the pump hold down in place, but you may have to loosen it, just a tad to take pressure off the rack.