"new" 5 ton for fire dpt

[b1pig]

Hello, all.

This afternoon, we took posession of a 5 ton truck chassis from Georgia Forestry. They prepped the chassis and installed our tank on it from another truck. The truck will serve as a back-up tanker/water shuttle for our all-volunteer agency, which serves the small town of Ray City, GA and the southern Berrien County area. We had the truck for a total of 3 hours.... long enough to get the hoses, tools and lines on it... before we had to roll it to a reported structure fire call.

Its slow, but we're thrilled to have a good truck that has the ability to traverse unimproved surfaces and fields, where two of our other trucks can not go.

Being the former Army mechanic (63-E) I've been tasked with drawing up a training sylibus for our department. Going to be tough on these guys. We have a few active and prior service with us, which is a plus.

I'll probably be poking around looking for some info. I looked the truck over, and I've already seen some changes on this one that were on the older rigs I worked on and drove in the early 90's.

learning experience, here we come!

 

[SixSpeed]

Umm...isn't that a 2 1/2 Ton M35A3?

 

[Alredneck]

Yep M35A3 2.5ton!

Still cool! What size tanks yall putting on the ole girl?

 

[b1pig]

yep. you guys are right.

they kept telling us "5 ton" for the last 6 months. today, we get it and its a deuce. kinda suprised that its a A3, though. i kept going over it today, thinking things didnt look right. i just went back to the station and looked at the data plate.

m35A3. lol...

geeze, its been a long time. 12 years out of the Army....

We've got a 1150 gallon tank on it. non-baffled. 200 gpm pump on the rear deck. in the past, we've used "T-62" as a water shuttle and a brush truck. we keep 2 attack lines, 1.5" hose with nozzels ... one on each side. 150ft of hose per side. we have a short 15ft hose we use as a "deck line". good for small spread out fires. usually one of us will be on top or on the deck and someone can drive the truck along a fire line and we can hose it down. or, in a pinch, we have the dump-valve. it will empty the 1100-or so gallons in less then one minute.

The previous chassis was an old International... cant recall the year, but I think it was late 60's. This truck is supposed to be overhealed. for the most part, it is in really great shape. good to have something a little more "updated" than what we had. and yes. it is an update.

i cant edit the title either... great. 1st post.
i'll just look like a dummy to start with guys. -yippie-

 

[velociT]

Non-baffled tank?

Don't let the rookie drive it.

 

[b1pig]

no, sir. that has already been addressed. FIRMLY.

we've got myself and another prior Army guy, two active USAF guys with us... our chief is retired USAF... plus one with some civilian experience with the M35 series trucks.

I'm unfortunately familiar with the hazzards. we lost a fellow mechanic around 1993 at Ft Hood on Turkey Run Rd in a rollover of a 5 ton wrecker. (HHC 1/8 Cav) tragic accident. Helluva nice guy with a family. There are some cautions about using this truck, but it will serve well so long as it is operated respectfully.

 

[M1075]

I'm unfortunately familiar with the hazzards. we lost a fellow mechanic around 1993 at Ft Hood on Turkey Run Rd in a rollover of a 5 ton wrecker. (HHC 1/8 Cav) tragic accident. Helluva nice guy with a family. There are some cautions about using this truck, but it will serve well so long as it is operated respectfully.

Welcome to the ranks! Sorry to hear about your brother. Can you enlighten us with some of the details of the accident? We all need safety reminders.

 

[NEIOWA]

Guy GET SOME BAFFLES IN THAT TANK. At a minimum.

You'd be better off getting a 600gal pod from DOD surplus for the chassis. There is a reason Sam ran Duece TPUs with only one pod. It's not a 5t.

A rural FD near me has a 814 (long WB M813) with a 3000gal tank (baffled). Do the math. Not me thanks.

 

[vtdeucedriver]

I would certinly find a tank with baffles. When you said that, my eyes lit up big time. I do believe there is a thread on here from someone who's FD had a deuce that was non-baffled and the driver was killed. Even on rough terrain, with the most experienced driver, your asking for trouble.

 

[b1pig]

we're already looking for another tank. there was actually supposed to be a "new" tank on it. for some reason, it came back with our old tank on it. i've come to a conclusion after running it around. the truck will probably be run full or empty. no in-between. as for baffles, 90% of the tanks only have baffles latterally to prevent front/rear slosh. not many with longitudinal baffles which would likely slow or prevent rolling.

we are limiting operators to those who have honest real world training in the M35 series and the M939 series with the super-singles. There are 5 of us right now. its not going to be an "emergency responder"... but more of a get there, dump water, go get more.

we've been all over the safety aspect of this truck, and while it does provide us a major asset, there is a lot of concern for a moron with no respect for it driving it like a comercial chassis with swaybars and road tires. belive me i know where you're coming from.


as for accident info?
As I recall the details, our 5 ton wrecker was east bound on Turkey Run Rd from conducting operator training. After going over the bridge over Turkey Run Creek (again off of memory), our 5 ton started up the hill and around the mild right turn -uphill-. a Deuce from another unit was traveling west. that driver crossed the centerline. the trucks slapped mirrors.

According to the two passengers inside the 5 ton, glass and debris affected the drivers ability to maintain control of the truck. it left the roadway and rolled over. how many time, i dont know. I'm certain of one full roll, though. the driver was partly ejected and died from trauma on scene. the center passenger was practially uninjured (boom saved him) and the right passenger had some moderate injury but was getting around with help some time after.

the operator and passenger of the deuce stopped... then left the scene. they returned to their motorpool. thanks to the standard proceedure at the time of tracking vehicles entering/leaving the motorpool... the driver was later identified.

the irony?
right by the accident scene, a field medical unit was doing a FTX. several witnessed the accident and several more were able to ID the unit that the Deuce was from. again, leading to locating the driver and vehicle.

that is based solely on my recollection of the incident... which occured back in ........ 1994?

 

[rosco]

The tank, "full or empty", is not good enough. It needs baffles! In an emergency, lots of stuff happens. Also what are those tires rated for. Lots of Folks go for singles, but the often don't carry as much weight as duals.

Lee in Alaska

 

[FireFighterHill]

Tankers are dangerous plain and simple. They make up the minority of fire depart vehicles across the country but they are involved in majority of accidents. To many times this boring job of shuttling water is given to rookies with the least driving experience, it should be instead the guy with the most time behind the wheel driving the tanker.

Baffled is the way to go though. Baffles can and do fail. We had a E-one with a baffled poly tank, the baffles broke. A tank shapped like and upside down T would be the way to go in a Deuce.

Like most have said singles may be a bad choice. I would rather have a tanker that is carrying less then its tire capacity by a big margin then one that is close to or slightly over the tires rated capacity. Plus more rubber on the ground means shorter stopping distance.

Also get rid of the CTIS. It will let you down when you need the truck most.

 

[fasttruck]

"full" is not a option. 1150 gallons of water weighs about 9200 pounds which will overload a m35a3 especially if operated on unimproved surfaces, as firefighterhill observed. More fire apparatus roll over accidents involve tankers than any other apparatus type. If your expert operators cannot tell the difference from a 2.5 and a 5 ton you have a problem. Prior service does not convey prior proficency. This must be an old milk truck body recycled.

 

[b1pig]

i downloaded the TM for it this morning. ofcourse we got nothing with it....
the truck isnt in service yet.

thanks to the state, we have no say in what we get. i didnt have the payload info yet and hadnt gotten it off the truck, one of the problems with the volunteer world. in any case, i've already communicated our issues to our chief. looks like we got a massive headache to figure out. i've already got our guy with the DRMO connection looking into a 800 gallon tank for us.

FireFighterHill
I agree with your observation about experience 100%. its the argument i've been making for 3 days. our problem is with a small group of over zealous rookies who think they know everything and an assistant chief who wants to "appease the masses", which i am standing firmly against. we have 5 people with standing experience. myself and another guy have the most experience, though mine is dated alittle. the other guy drove a tanker in Army reserves, i was a mechanic. Got lots of time in the deuce, m113 and m88.

 

[FireFighterHill]

Actually to not over load a deuce off road payload capacity which is 5,000 pounds you would only be able to carry 600 gallons of water. If used strictly on paved surfaces you can double that. If you are going to use this offroad, might I recommend putting a simple tilt meter in the cab. We have these on all the ARFF trucks ive ever driven. If only they made an offroad tanker with low center of gravity!

 

[b1pig]

excellent point. thanks!

 

[vtdeucedriver]

If only they made an offroad tanker with low center of gravity!

Gama Goat?????

 

[b1pig]

lol....
when i was in armor school, they showed us a couple of pictures of Gamma Goats rolled over in various locations.... usually ditches.

 

[Bob H]

b1pig,
check out www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com for good info.

 

[b1pig]

checking. thanks, Bob.

edit. found it under:
http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/