PCB, EESS, 3S, TSU, GPC... Try to figuer them out.

[spankybear]

I have been doing some research trying to find testing information and how they work. Maybe my search FU isn't good as I really can't find anything. So I downloaded the patents and took a look.

My focus will be on the EESS , 3S and the TSU.

The issues I have is the wait light flashes 7 times... This is my first clue. There must be some type of micro controller in the unit. Sure as it rains in Washington there is. Looking at the patents I see a PIC micro controller. So I am 97.2% sure this is a diagnostic code. But what does it mean? I am sure there are others.

Someone suggested to test all glow plugs. This is easy enough with a test light. However I would like to know how the box knows the glow plugs are bad. If they are all bad I can see that and there would be an open circuit. But say there are 4 bad and 4 good and the golw plugs are in parallel. Sine the glow plus resistance is like 2Ω each and the parallel circuit thing would more or less look like to have continuity.


I have been reading that some people have had issues where the wait light flashes ones. looking thought the documents that seems to be a lamp test. This makes scene.

Looking for input and let see if we can figure these things out. Maybe just maybe was can fix these and save $$$. Sure I can load the parts cannon up and fire away wads of money. But what fun is that?

 

[tgejesse]

Ditch the stupid system and go to a manual system. If you’re good with electronics, build it yourself. If you want a solid and reliable solution, buy a CAMO box.

you won’t regret it.

 

[juanprado]

You probably need the unit that screws into the water crossover. Different ones depending on which box you have. That solved my light problem but it does not mean that you might not also have bad plugs.

 

[Mogman]

There are troubleshooting guides, not sure what the US pat. info is going to do for you.
You test the glow plugs with an ohm meter not a test light.

 

[spankybear]

You probably need the unit that screws into the water crossover. Different ones depending on which box you have. That solved my light problem but it does not mean that you might not also have bad plugs.

Thanks for the input! It just I am not one to load up the parts cannon and start shooting. In my limited years of troubleshooting I just don't find the parts cannon all that effective. I want to know how to tell what part is bad. Once I get an understanding of how the system works then I can troubleshoot. Also in my limited troubleshooting I find that most problems are stupid simple like is it plugged in... I rarely see it as the most complicated part in the system.

 

[spankybear]

There are troubleshooting guides, not sure what the US pat. info is going to do for you.
You test the glow plugs with an ohm meter not a test light.

The stuff I attached tells me what is inside the boxes. I have not been able to find that anywhere. Also I am shocked that no one here knows how the boxes work. This place is wealth of knowledge and thought this would be a good place to ask.

You sure can test the glow plug with a test light. I find it a fast and better test. A meter meter will also work but is time consuming. At least in the vehicle I use a test light. On the bench or glow plugs out of the vehicle a meter is easier. What are you doing with a meter that you are not with a test light. Sure the test light will not get you a ohm reading but when you are looking at under 1 to 2 ohms is nothing. Heck that can be the the resistance in your test leads if you don't have a null feature on your meter. Don't think I seen any meter form Harbor Freight with a null feature.

You are looking for an open glow plug and a test light will do this in the vehicle. It also puts some current through the glow plug that a meter will not do. You can also test a coil of a relay with the same test light. But I digress...

What do I know? Test the way you like. I'll use a test light in vehicle and you can use a meter.

 

[Mogman]

The stuff I attached tells me what is inside the boxes. I have not been able to find that anywhere. Also I am shocked that no one here knows how the boxes work. This place is wealth of knowledge and thought this would be a good place to ask.

You sure can test the glow plug with a test light. I find it a fast and better test. A meter meter will also work but is time consuming. At least in the vehicle I use a test light. On the bench or glow plugs out of the vehicle a meter is easier. What are you doing with a meter that you are not with a test light. Sure the test light will not get you a ohm reading but when you are looking at under 1 to 2 ohms is nothing. Heck that can be the the resistance in your test leads if you don't have a null feature on your meter. Don't think I seen any meter form Harbor Freight with a null feature.

You are looking for an open glow plug and a test light will do this in the vehicle. It also puts some current through the glow plug that a meter will not do. You can also test a coil of a relay with the same test light. But I digress...

What do I know? Test the way you like. I'll use a test light in vehicle and you can use a meter.

Allot of folks know how the boxes work, where did you get that idea???

EDIT, I have repaired them, many others have repaired them while others have discovered ways of converting them to manual control and even posted the information, no big mystery there.

 

[spankybear]

Allot of folks know how the boxes work, where did you get that idea???

EDIT, I have repaired them, many others have repaired them while others have discovered ways of converting them to manual control and even posted the information, no big mystery there.

Well the 7 flashes of the wait light. Is this a diagnostic code? if it is for what? I haven't found that posted here. I may have missed it.

I have looked through the forum and seen people talk about one flash. From what I read in the above documents this is a lamp test. this makes since. I may have missed this in my search here.

There is talk about the batteries being unbalanced. Does the box look at each individual battery or just the sum of the 2?

There is talk about grounds. Both of these lead me to a low voltage at the box. Do you know what the minimum voltage the boxes need to see to work? I was looking at the documents above and there is some talk about 25 volts. If this is the case the batteries will need to be at minimum 90% state of charge. Or there is a voltage drop between the box and batteries. This could be a helpful tool to know the minimum voltage is.

There is talk about bad glow plugs. Do you know what the box is looking for on the glow plugs. I am just wondering how the box "test" the glow plugs? They are in parallel and being very low resistances I could only guess the box is looking for an open. This could be a easy test to check by measuring the pin that feeds the glow plugs at the box. You could look for an open and know all of your glow plugs are bad or even a open wire that feeds the glow plugs. It would be a harder test to see if one or two are bad. Back to how the box check the glow plugs.

Sure I can aim the parts cannon at the issue. I could also go with a manual box. Both of these ideas are ones I don't want to go with. But that is just me. I like to make trucks a stock as possible and loading the assault parts cannon can get expensive.

 

[Coug]

Box is 24V only, so can only view the batteries as a single component; not two individual ones.

My truck will still operate the glow plugs and attempt to crank, even if the voltage is a little low. Below about 23V my truck won't start as it can't overcome compression, but still tries.

That's just my own personal experience, so I can't say that's how all of them are.

 

[Mogman]

I am not familiar with the "smart" boxes, does sound like a "code" hopefully someone with more experience with them will chime in.
But you can check all the glow plugs, no need to remove them, any that do not ohm out very low ohms is kaput!
You should also check and clean all the grounding connections, there are not that many as most host multiple cables as a "tie" point.

 

[spankybear]

Box is 24V only, so can only view the batteries as a single component; not two individual ones.

My truck will still operate the glow plugs and attempt to crank, even if the voltage is a little low. Below about 23V my truck won't start as it can't overcome compression, but still tries.

That's just my own personal experience, so I can't say that's how all of them are.

Good information and this makes me think there is more to these boxes. When I flip the switch the wait light starts to flash. I wonder if the box needs to see the full voltage when it is powered up and before starting. I know the voltage will drop when the starter and glow plugs are on.

Maybe this is a way to protect any electronic (radios, computers, whatever) form surge. There was talk about this in the documents above.

By chance do you have a volt meter? If it isn't to much of a hassle the next time you go to start your truck could you see what the battery voltage is. To make it easy I would think you could measure at the NATO plug. I be curious if you have an EESS or 3S box that is. I could be barking up the wrong tree and completely out of the picture.

 

[spankybear]

I am not familiar with the "smart" boxes, does sound like a "code" hopefully someone with more experience with them will chime in.
But you can check all the glow plugs, no need to remove them, any that do not ohm out very low ohms is kaput!
You should also check and clean all the grounding connections, there are not that many as most host multiple cables as a "tie" point.

I will have to check my grounds. More and more I think about this I am convinced the box looks for what the voltage is at power up. A bad ground would cause a voltage drop and thus no joy. Maybe the 7 flashes is a under volt code? Wouldn't this be awesome to know!

 

[Mogman]

Wait Light Flashing

After several gremlins in my electrical system being fixed. I know have a wait light that flashes around 7 times and the engine won't fire. Ideas??? New glow plugs (tested before installed) new Nartron temp sensor and refurbished Nartron control box. However I wondering about the box personally.

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[spankybear]

Wait Light Flashing

After several gremlins in my electrical system being fixed. I know have a wait light that flashes around 7 times and the engine won't fire. Ideas??? New glow plugs (tested before installed) new Nartron temp sensor and refurbished Nartron control box. However I wondering about the box personally.

www.steelsoldiers.com

Post 19 is reinforcing my under volt thoughts...

 

[Mogman]

Post 19 is reinforcing my under volt thoughts...

I read in another thread the low voltage code was 4 flashes, post #19 did not state the number of flashes, again only what I have read.

 

[Coug]

I haven't looked to see what box I actually have in mine.
The wait light flashes for me every time no matter what. With batteries fully charged it's about 13 or 14 flashes.
When batteries are low it's about 17 flashes.

I have only replaced a couple of the glow plugs; enough that it would start in below freezing weather. It doesn't like the cold still, but I've been dealing with steering issues, and now some type of oil/fuel type leak, so I haven't gotten around to dealing with the rest of the glow plugs. As you know the weather hasn't exactly been the best here in Western Washington lately, and I don't have a garage to work in (and I get rained on enough at work)

 

[spankybear]

I read in another thread the low voltage code was 4 flashes, post #19 did not state the number of flashes, again only what I have read.

Well the number of flashes seem to be a code. I am willing to bet we can figure it our here. A lot of these threads I read seem to needlessly replace items. So far we have 1 4 and 7 flashes. I need to sit down and read all the stuff above to see of there is any more clues. It did state one flash was a bulb check.

We the weather gets less wet here i'll take a meter and start looking and the power and grounds to the box. It should be easy to find a voltage drop. I also need to clean the engine to make things easier.

 

[spankybear]

I haven't looked to see what box I actually have in mine.
The wait light flashes for me every time no matter what. With batteries fully charged it's about 13 or 14 flashes.
When batteries are low it's about 17 flashes.

I have only replaced a couple of the glow plugs; enough that it would start in below freezing weather. It doesn't like the cold still, but I've been dealing with steering issues, and now some type of oil/fuel type leak, so I haven't gotten around to dealing with the rest of the glow plugs. As you know the weather hasn't exactly been the best here in Western Washington lately, and I don't have a garage to work in (and I get rained on enough at work)

Ah yes the weather... Not only have I been dealing with cold and wet... I get wind there also... Man I hate the wind! Give me wet, give me cold but wind, yuck!

 

[Mogman]

Before you wash the engine, did your truck have a fording valve? (high exhaust and intake) if so have you addressed the missing CDR valve?

 

[spankybear]

No Ford parts on this truck that I am aware of...