Propane injection system has anyone put one in a CUCV

[Mike_Kendall]

Hello all, Many years ago when I was stationed in the Philippines I had my 72 Bronco with aftermarket high compression pistons in it. I experimented with my own fuel additives using a little imagination and practically no exeperience and knowledge. I tried adding 8 percent tech grade alcohol and succeeded in clogging alot of fuel filters. I then got a cooking propane tank and strapped it to my rollbar. Ran that hose used for soda machines to the vacuum inlet of my Holley double pumper carb, turned up the idle way high to about 1700 RPM. Every morning when I started it up I'd reach back and crack the propane until my tach read a steady drop in RPM down to 750 RPM. Wow, did the knocking from poor fuel immediately go away. I loved it.
I just discovered that ATS markets propane injection kits and was really surprised at the horsepower and fuel economy increase they claim. Website claims that the diesel normally only burns 75 percent of the fuel and there is a major increase in the amount burned. And, in the testimonials someone talks about using cooking propane tanks just like I did years ago. This is a more sophisticated system of course. Has anyone done this on CUCV's or other military diesels? I wonder how the longevity of the engine is affected? It seems to be a different set-up for amount metered if you run a turbo. I'm going to call ATS first thing next week but wanted to ask the guru's on steel soldiers for comments. I've heard good things about the ATS turbos and will ask them about these as well. I'm worried about putting a turbo on my 6.2L because of the weaker lower end of the engine. Maybe just a propane injection without turbo will be a better option. Thanks in advance to all, Mike

 

[Mike_Kendall]

It appears that I may only be able to use propane injection with a turbo charged engine after looking briefly at some of the ATS information but I may be wrong. There is a kit manufactured by "bully dog" that states it works off teh oil pressure sending unit for naturally aspirated engines. Anyone use propane injection on a non-turbo charged diesel?
Mike

 

[2deuce]

I too would be interested in propane. It would seem to be best used with a turbo, because it would be best with more air, but with a NA 6.2, I don't see much more power but possibly better fuel mileage. Better more complete burning of the diesel, you might be able to turn down the fuel. Also easier starting in the cold. Hope somebody has done it, will post.

 

[Mike_Kendall]

There is another guy who is putting together a kit and selling on Ebay. His kit works off of engine vacuum. It is much cheaper and claims that he is using quality parts. He also sells a Hobbs pressure switch that is adjustable from 1 to 18 psi. His kit is 298 dollars. I was thinking the same about cold starting but the kit would have to accomodate getting a little in the engine while trying to start it. I'm probably going to get one of these systems but will do lots of homework before doing it. I'm surprised there is not many comments on this post and could not find any others on steel soldiers. I'm thinking the HP gains that I'd get from a turbo and propane injection combined may be too much for that little 6.2l with the weaker lower end to handle. Last thing I want is a blown engine from running too many ponies through it. The cleaner burning, gain in HP and MPG may just be better than a turbo at lower altitudes. I don't think I've got space in the engine compartment for A/C and turbo so this may be a good alternative.

 

[84cucv1ton]

have a link for it thanks

 

[Mike_Kendall]

DIESEL PROPANE INJECTION KIT-GAIN UP TO 100 HP! NEW!: eBay Motors (item 180515477501 end time Jun-20-10 19:00:00 PDT)
This is the link that claims a 100 HP gain. The buy it now is $350 but if nobody bids in the next 3 days it will go for $298. I placed a bid so hoping that it goes for the lower price. There is another guy who sells aluminum propane tanks that are a 33.5 pound capacity (8 gallons) That would be a perfect match for the M1009 to get approx. 25% for a 27 gallon tank. The diameter is just over 12 inches and they sell a vertical strap kit that I'm thinking will bolt where the spare gas can goes. I could put my spare gas can and holder in one of the other M1009's or just mount it on the back some day if I ever get around to putting the spare on the outside/back. Here is the tank:
PROPANE TANK 33.5 LB 8 GALLON FORKLIFT ALUMINUM NEW: eBay Motors (item 180375698060 end time Jun-25-10 03:15:41 PDT)
Here is the strap kit that is sold as a vertical mount kit for rock crawlers 8/10 gallon:
PROPANE ROCK CRAWLER TANK BRACKET VERTICAL 8 & 10 GAL.: eBay Motors (item 180408976419 end time Jul-14-10 11:08:27 PDT)

 

[84cucv1ton]

great thanks

 

[Mike_Kendall]

I called the person who is selling the unit on Ebay that you asked about for a link. His are set up for turbo but he stated they can be used with regularly aspirated engines. He was not very impressed with coming off the oil pressure sensor same as the "bully dog" kit. He was talking about adding a sensor in the throttle linkage or a manual switch that would be a hazard if forgotten in an on position. I really like the idea of also using the propane for cold start and being able to have a propane source for camping as well.

 

[stampy]

Install the EGT first lest you melt something. I have the kit but have not installed it yet as I will need to put in the EGT first and get a baseline. I have also heard a lot about M1009's not being able to handle higher compression ie turbos very well when it comes to head gaskets, so I have been a little aprehensive about putting it on the m1009 and thought more about putting it on the Deuce.

 

[Mike_Kendall]

Hi Stampy,
I also have been apprehensive about a turbo system. There is a 6.2L dually truck at the local pick-n-pull that I can yank the entire system off for $122 out-the-door plus a 20 percent discount on top of that this weekend. I can get another turbo from ATS if needed that replaces the stock turbo.
I am now leaning towards a propane-injection setup in a normally aspirated rig. I spoke to the guy who sells them and he recommended initially a 1:8 ratio vice a 1:4 ratio.
I am a retired Electronics Technician and will most likely breadboard a logic circuit for the unit to turn on. I will get more input but the initial plan is to put a momentary toggle switch the same as my manual glo-plugs to bypass the logic circuit and let a little propane in for cold starting. I can easily make a boolean logic type circuit that will use a combination of a tach with a setting of minimum RPM before it turns on and either vacuum or oil pressure. I used to etch my own circuit boards and know from memory the chips I'll need to make the logic circuit to drive the relay for the solenoid. This will free up my engine compartment for AC for the wife and kids. I'll put the 33.5 lb aluminum tank where the gas can holder goes. I can run an extra propane hose for camping stove/light purposes. I will soon have a luggage rack soon as well but that is another story as the 24v winch I'm installing and some other ongoing projects.
I will have to look into an EGT. I thought that was only a concern for turbo apps with a wastegate.
Mike

 

[stampy]

Others may know better than I do about EGT and relation to propane injection. My logic has always been 15% fuel waste (diesel) means a cooler EGT. When you get 100% burn you also get higher EGT and pressure and more HP. I thought about a push button system for times when you want the extra boost, with a momentary switch and a N/C solenoid also. I think short boosts may not cause a much thermal load but I only speculate.

 

[2deuce]

I could be wrong about this but I don't think adding propane for a more complete burn is going to add too much heat. It might be lower because you are using less diesel per mile. What I mean is, if you are going down the road making 100hp with propane added, I think your temps could be lower than running down the road making the same hp with only diesel. If you add more diesel because now it will burn better, that is where you will see your significant power increase and heat. The temps rise when you are making that extra power. That said, anytime you run at full throttle the temp will climb. I also don't feel your seat of the pants power increase will be felt by pushing a button to activate propane. If you have the fuel turned up and your wasting more fuel because of no propane then you could feel some difference by adding it, but you wouldn't run with the fuel up without propane to begin with. I think monitoring EGT is an especially a good idea if your hauling, running big tires, or push your truck over 65, probably 55 in a m1008. I'm considering adding propane for the mileage benefits, but when I hear 3 to 7% savings I wonder if they only are figuring the diesel savings and not adding in the additional propane gallons. That brings up another question how much propane are you going to use per tank of diesel?

 

[southdave]

PUSH Button system
I did the hilly thing when I got my duece I used the either cold start system, parts from the niehbors gas grill and regulator from my torch set it worked. run mine at 1.5 +- psi

 

[Mike_Kendall]

2duece,
To answer question on how much propane per tank, I will ask the gent to calibrate at a ratio of 1:8 if he can. I bought the cheap Ebay kit and won the auction today at $298 before shipping. He seems honest enough and published the type of vaporizer on the auction. I found the web page for the mfg of the vaporizer. They have a line-up of several different propane items for vehicles, thie one I got was a 100HP model designed to work at a negative 1.5 pressure.
I also bought a used aluminum 33.5lb/8gallon tank for $110 about 1/2 the cost of a new one. I bought the $99 strap that is linked in a previous reply. It has a flat plate that will bolt directly to the spare tire carrier if I drill 4 holes the same pattern. The strap can handle 8 or 10 gallon tanks. This will hopefully give me 2 and 1/2 tanks per full container of propane. I read on another web page that if you add a remote fill kit that you can get the propane cheaper and that they charge more if you buy it at barbeque container prices. Buying propane is something I've never done in my life (always used charcoal) so I really don't have an idea how cheap it will be or if I can save alot of money with a remote fill kit. I may just use the propane on the highway and in hard start situations. The bully dog system states not to use it until the engine warms up probably so the vaporizer will function properly.
Mike

 

[2deuce]

Thanks, Mike. I'm seriously thinking of trying it also. I hope it works well for you. Please keep us posted.
Greg

 

[dependable]

There is another guy who is putting together a kit and selling on Ebay. His kit works off of engine vacuum ( Are you sure this is for diesel?)

 

[2deuce]

One thing thats misleading things about the advertised mpg gains is that the propane is not figured in. So on a m1009 that gets about 20mpg on the freeway you have to make a 3 mpg increase the way they figure it before you start saving anything. I hope Mike K. finds its worthwhile.

 

[hodgeb]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but...

Locally I can fill up one of the 20 pound LPG tanks (aka the common BBQ grill tanks) for just shy of $10. That's almost 5 gallons of LPG @ about $2/gallon. Now consider that diesel is twice that cost... it works out.

Many truck stops /gas stations that double for heavy throughput for tourists will have propane tank fill-up stations. Assuming you get a 20% increase or so (believable depending on driving conditions, etc.) that's a good pay-off at 8:1 or even 4:1.

 

[NC PREPMAN]

So did this ever get installed? If so what was the out come? I'm interested in installing in mine. Sorry for the old post resurrection.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I don't know much about the subject, but I do know the folks that started BullyDog. They gave up on running propane in their own trucks. Found it too hard on the engines.

You'll notice they don't sell that anymore.