"Rescued" M816 Wrecker

[wcuhillbilly]

Definatly something to ponder for the upcoming days,,,,, The 816 stock will rotate 270, and by removing the stops 360 but kiss your lights good bye,,, mine are no longer functioning and Im sure its down in the swivel, as I was unloading foundation blocks last fall and everytime we would swing they would flicker and then go out. I cannot find a problem with wires or connection so Im led to believe its in the swivel... Oh well,, that's part of the Headache rack idea....

I love the multi port swivel from DSTI,,, only draw back is that the list says "Get Quote",,, that usually means BOHICA for me.... or nevermind, Ill never be able to afford it....

My rationale for moving the hydro tank was to get rid of that huge filter housing and line supplying the pump, by moving it to the frame rail the filter could be swapped to a spin on and the big supply line could supply the pump, that way the only lines going up into the swivel was the smaller supply and return from the crane valve body.

Davis, Whats the story on the crane swivel for the 936,,,, if the pump is mounted down below, then the tower in the crane turret must be a swivel of some sorts..... I have a picture of it, but didn't have enough time to fully investigate it when I was down there looking at it.

 

[Csm Davis]

Definatly something to ponder for the upcoming days,,,,, The 816 stock will rotate 270, and by removing the stops 360 but kiss your lights good bye,,, mine are no longer functioning and Im sure its down in the swivel, as I was unloading foundation blocks last fall and everytime we would swing they would flicker and then go out. I cannot find a problem with wires or connection so Im led to believe its in the swivel... Oh well,, that's part of the Headache rack idea....

I love the multi port swivel from DSTI,,, only draw back is that the list says "Get Quote",,, that usually means BOHICA for me.... or nevermind, Ill never be able to afford it....

My rationale for moving the hydro tank was to get rid of that huge filter housing and line supplying the pump, by moving it to the frame rail the filter could be swapped to a spin on and the big supply line could supply the pump, that way the only lines going up into the swivel was the smaller supply and return from the crane valve body.

Davis, Whats the story on the crane swivel for the 936,,,, if the pump is mounted down below, then the tower in the crane turret must be a swivel of some sorts..... I have a picture of it, but didn't have enough time to fully investigate it when I was down there looking at it.

I believe that the 816 has a slip ring for the lights so it can still go 360.
Yeah I know it has a swivel with electric slip ring.

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[red]

Definatly something to ponder for the upcoming days,,,,, The 816 stock will rotate 270, and by removing the stops 360 but kiss your lights good bye,,, mine are no longer functioning and Im sure its down in the swivel, as I was unloading foundation blocks last fall and everytime we would swing they would flicker and then go out. I cannot find a problem with wires or connection so Im led to believe its in the swivel... Oh well,, that's part of the Headache rack idea....

I love the multi port swivel from DSTI,,, only draw back is that the list says "Get Quote",,, that usually means BOHICA for me.... or nevermind, Ill never be able to afford it....

My rationale for moving the hydro tank was to get rid of that huge filter housing and line supplying the pump, by moving it to the frame rail the filter could be swapped to a spin on and the big supply line could supply the pump, that way the only lines going up into the swivel was the smaller supply and return from the crane valve body.

Davis, Whats the story on the crane swivel for the 936,,,, if the pump is mounted down below, then the tower in the crane turret must be a swivel of some sorts..... I have a picture of it, but didn't have enough time to fully investigate it when I was down there looking at it.

Yea the cost of the swivel is the big unknown. To find out first one of us needs to take a look at the hoses that are running to the pump and find out what their size is. Once we know the hose size (it's inside diameter, should be written on the outside of the hose) then we can figure out which size swivel is needed and price it out. Next time I'll be by my wrecker is this upcoming weekend (weather permitting) so I can check then or one of yall can check before and post it up here.

Ah that makes sense for moving the hydraulic tank. Are you thinking of modifying/cleaning the stock passenger side fuel tank to use for the hydraulics? That mod could work out very well for me too since this 816 is getting a smaller PTO pump from that dump truck added to it, could tie the tank into both pumps.

 

[EO2NMCB]

With the exception of the suction hose, I will have replaced all but one high psi hose and they have all been 1" id.

 

[red]

With the exception of the suction hose, I will have replaced all but one high psi hose and they have all been 1" id.

Thank you.

Just submitted a request to DTSI asking for info/price on a 2 and 10 passage hydraulic swivel with 1" ID passages and mentioned our low psi requirements, will update here with what I find out.

 

[red]

Just got off the phone with them and as expected, price is pretty high for 1 inch ID swivels. 2 passage is $2500 and the 10 passage will be a custom setup so a range of $10-12k.

Financially that throws out the 10 passage swivel. The 2 passage is a possibility if you want hydraulic capabilities on the chassis (outriggers, spades, wheel lift, winches, etc) and want to use the main pump.


There are 2 other ways to get chassis hydraulics while keeping the crane on a PTO shaft setup:
1. Install a second (smaller) hydraulic pump. This is what I'm doing on my m816. Running a pump powered by the transmission rear PTO shaft. This will be it's own separate system with it's own valve bank and oil tank.

2. Get busy with some hydraulic quick disconnects. Mount a valve bank on the truck chassis (wcuhillbilly your headache rack idea) and plumb in all the chassis accessories. Install a quick disconnect at the inlet/outlet of the chassis valve bank. Install another pair of quick disconnects on the high pressure output side of the pump. With 2 hoses with QD's you can plumb from the pump to the valve bank inlet, then from valve bank outlet to the high pressure hose that was attached to the pump (completing the system). Have to remember to reconfigure the hoses every time you want to rotate the crane with this option.


If you go with option 2 give me a call. I have some of those 1" high pressure hydraulic QD's (high end Stucchi).

 

[Another Ahab]

Just got off the phone with them and as expected, price is pretty high for 1 inch ID swivels. 2 passage is $2500 and the 10 passage will be a custom setup so a range of $10-12k. .

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay i have a question, why a 10 port swivel? You only need 1 return port and 4 pressure ports right?

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[red]

Okay i have a question, why a 10 port swivel? You only need 1 return port and 4 pressure ports right?

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Need 10 because each of the 4 actions goes 2 ways. With 2 hoses per valve they alternate high pressure and return. Push the lever and one hose is the high pressure, pull the lever and the opposite hose on that valve is now the high pressure.
Port 1: high pressure supply
Port 2: low pressure from tank (or 'high pressure' return to tank depending on if moving the tank)
Port 3: Crane cable in
Port 4: crane cable out
Port 5: boom raise
Port 6: boom lower
Port 7: Boom extend
Port 8: Boom retract
Port 9: Pivot left
Port 10: Pivot right

Because of everything being powered in/out instead of powered 1 way and gravity return the other way a 10 passage swivel would be necessary to relocate the crane valve bank to the chassis.


Csm Davis there are a few other ways to make a duplicate valve bank for crane operations from down at the cab but will require some creative/chaotic plumbing. If you installed a second valve bank on the chassis and used the QD's to reroute the high pressure hydraulics from the pump to the second valve bank, you could also add another 8 hoses (if you want limited crane rotation, or just 6 if no rotation) and install a T fitting at each hose on the valve bank in the crane control bucket. Or route the new QD hoses to each and every mechanism (boom extend/retract, raise/lower, winch in/out). Run a hose from each T fitting over to the remote valve bank.

Possible yes, but now you have up to 10 1 inch hydraulic hoses to disconnect each and every time you want full rotation from the crane. The QD fittings will keep it clean and if the hoses are marked then shouldn't be difficult to get all them connected correctly. Including hoses/QD's/valve bank this setup could be done for less than $1000 with new parts.

The other option would be to install a air valve bank on the chassis with a dedicated air hose run to it from the tanks on the truck. Then install 3 position air cylinders (neutral, in, out) on the crane controls up in the operator bucket. Run 2 air hoses per operation from those cylinders over to the air valve bank, connected with QD fittings. Presents the same problem as making the duplicate/remote hydraulic valve bank but also creates a second issue. With using air cylinders there is no way to 'feather' the hydraulic operations. It is a on/off action with air cylinders so the delicate movements (pull the crane cable in by 1-2 inches for example) will be gone when using the air powered remote. This setup would operate as if you were sitting in the crane operator bucket and every time you pushed/pulled a lever to it's maximum travel then let it go/return to neutral.

 

[Csm Davis]

Need 10 because each of the 4 actions goes 2 ways. With 2 hoses per valve they alternate high pressure and return. Push the lever and one hose is the high pressure, pull the lever and the opposite hose on that valve is now the high pressure.
Port 1: high pressure supply
Port 2: low pressure from tank (or 'high pressure' return to tank depending on if moving the tank)
Port 3: Crane cable in
Port 4: crane cable out
Port 5: boom raise
Port 6: boom lower
Port 7: Boom extend
Port 8: Boom retract
Port 9: Pivot left
Port 10: Pivot right

Because of everything being powered in/out instead of powered 1 way and gravity return the other way a 10 passage swivel would be necessary to relocate the crane valve bank to the chassis.


Csm Davis there are a few other ways to make a duplicate valve bank for crane operations from down at the cab but will require some creative/chaotic plumbing. If you installed a second valve bank on the chassis and used the QD's to reroute the high pressure hydraulics from the pump to the second valve bank, you could also add another 8 hoses (if you want limited crane rotation, or just 6 if no rotation) and install a T fitting at each hose on the valve bank in the crane control bucket. Or route the new QD hoses to each and every mechanism (boom extend/retract, raise/lower, winch in/out). Run a hose from each T fitting over to the remote valve bank.

Possible yes, but now you have up to 10 1 inch hydraulic hoses to disconnect each and every time you want full rotation from the crane. The QD fittings will keep it clean and if the hoses are marked then shouldn't be difficult to get all them connected correctly. Including hoses/QD's/valve bank this setup could be done for less than $1000 with new parts.

The other option would be to install a air valve bank on the chassis with a dedicated air hose run to it from the tanks on the truck. Then install 3 position air cylinders (neutral, in, out) on the crane controls up in the operator bucket. Run 2 air hoses per operation from those cylinders over to the air valve bank, connected with QD fittings. Presents the same problem as making the duplicate/remote hydraulic valve bank but also creates a second issue. With using air cylinders there is no way to 'feather' the hydraulic operations. It is a on/off action with air cylinders so the delicate movements (pull the crane cable in by 1-2 inches for example) will be gone when using the air powered remote. This setup would operate as if you were sitting in the crane operator bucket and every time you pushed/pulled a lever to it's maximum travel then let it go/return to neutral.

Yes you are correct for all but boom down #6 is not powered it is just dump valve, guess I was half asleep.
As to running the quick disconnects that is "to much sugar for a dime" for me. And a 9 port is out of reach beyond the price of full electronic remote control. But if you guys want the 936 swivels i can probably find 2.

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[red]

Yes you are correct for all but boom down #6 is not powered it is just dump valve, guess I was half asleep.
As to running the quick disconnects that is "to much sugar for a dime" for me. And a 9 port is out of reach beyond the price of full electronic remote control. But if you guys want the 936 swivels i can probably find 2.

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That would be good. Think we would both be looking for a swivel and a valve bank.

 

[Csm Davis]

This is the 936A2 swivel

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[Csm Davis]

This appears to be a 3 port swivel which I will confirm this afternoon when i climb under the truck for pictures, the port over the data tag is for bypass when the valves are all closed I believe as it goes into the side of the tank but not sure why it would go through the swivel.

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[red]

The valve bank should be an open center so wouldn't need a bypass. Think we can figure out what's going on when we see the underside pics.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

I was wondering why I didn't get any email updates to this thread,,,, my subscription must have gotten bumped somehow.....
Yes that 936 swivel is what is on the 936 I looked at the other day, and had me wondering if we 816 owners could retro fit that swivel into our systems to alow us to run the 816 pump down on the chassis or a tranny mounted wet kit or PTO shaft drive. relocating that pump down to the chassis is why I was thinking of using the pass fuel tank as a hydro tank, let alone the extra capacity and shorter line to the pump for fresh fluid, a spin on filter could be installed with shut off valves incase of hose failure. Extra cap could come in handy if outrigger or Hydraulic tools would be used..... Never know when your gonna find a spare Hurst jaws of life laying in an auction somewhere......

Being my t case PTO is talking to me after extended running of the crane, I am looking at being forced to come up with something sometime this summer. I don't do wrecker calls very often but last time netted me 2.5 hours of the crane being engaged and holding onto an overturned cattle pot with 12 dead yearlings on the upper bunk,,,, laying on its side, doing the toxic turtle.... Other wrecker was trying to pull it upright but couldn't manage the weight. Called me and together it came right up. then I had to hold it while he attempted to pull the whole 18 wheeler up onto the highway... Offered to let him hold and use my 45k but he's the boss...... he jerked so hard that his Cat started breathing through the stacks.... Finaly got it moving and I was able to follow with the crane..... Saying a prayer the whole time that the CV didn't fail.... It did a few weeks later Thank God.

Looked up Hydromotion and there in Spring City PA,,,, Hydramotion is an European or Canadian comp. Hyromotion does offer a multi port swivel but its a pic on their webpage, this may be another option for the bed mounted controls. 1-866-931-5500

Davis...... I would be looking for a swivel and cost depending maybe the hydro motor for the rear winch, just have to get the proper requisitions through my finance department,,,, but after running blocker for me hauling the dozer last nite,,, pulling a 6% grade "chuggaluggin 5mph blocking up the road on my KKKKaiser" she is fairly receptive to the idea of the 10spd and a PT pump rebuild...

 

[red]

I was wondering why I didn't get any email updates to this thread,,,, my subscription must have gotten bumped somehow.....
Yes that 936 swivel is what is on the 936 I looked at the other day, and had me wondering if we 816 owners could retro fit that swivel into our systems to alow us to run the 816 pump down on the chassis or a tranny mounted wet kit or PTO shaft drive. relocating that pump down to the chassis is why I was thinking of using the pass fuel tank as a hydro tank, let alone the extra capacity and shorter line to the pump for fresh fluid, a spin on filter could be installed with shut off valves incase of hose failure. Extra cap could come in handy if outrigger or Hydraulic tools would be used..... Never know when your gonna find a spare Hurst jaws of life laying in an auction somewhere......

Being my t case PTO is talking to me after extended running of the crane, I am looking at being forced to come up with something sometime this summer. I don't do wrecker calls very often but last time netted me 2.5 hours of the crane being engaged and holding onto an overturned cattle pot with 12 dead yearlings on the upper bunk,,,, laying on its side, doing the toxic turtle.... Other wrecker was trying to pull it upright but couldn't manage the weight. Called me and together it came right up. then I had to hold it while he attempted to pull the whole 18 wheeler up onto the highway... Offered to let him hold and use my 45k but he's the boss...... he jerked so hard that his Cat started breathing through the stacks.... Finaly got it moving and I was able to follow with the crane..... Saying a prayer the whole time that the CV didn't fail.... It did a few weeks later Thank God.

Looked up Hydromotion and there in Spring City PA,,,, Hydramotion is an European or Canadian comp. Hyromotion does offer a multi port swivel but its a pic on their webpage, this may be another option for the bed mounted controls. 1-866-931-5500

Davis...... I would be looking for a swivel and cost depending maybe the hydro motor for the rear winch, just have to get the proper requisitions through my finance department,,,, but after running blocker for me hauling the dozer last nite,,, pulling a 6% grade "chuggaluggin 5mph blocking up the road on my KKKKaiser" she is fairly receptive to the idea of the 10spd and a PT pump rebuild...

View attachment 669758

Might be a busy summer for you with a trans swap and the hydraulic conversion. Will you plumb in a valve bank for the winches at that point or wait until later?

Oh and Csm Davis, wcuhillbilly has hydraulic parts priority over me on this. I have the smaller hydraulic pump sitting here waiting to be installed and I'm not dead set on relocating my crane pump down to the chassis.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Might be a busy summer for you with a trans swap and the hydraulic conversion. Will you plumb in a valve bank for the winches at that point or wait until later?

Oh and Csm Davis, wcuhillbilly has hydraulic parts priority over me on this. I have the smaller hydraulic pump sitting here waiting to be installed and I'm not dead set on relocating my crane pump down to the chassis.

Cant say how fast I will get around to it, as trying to prioritize and pay off some accumulated debt concerning the B&B remodel as of this point. But having the 10 laying here and amassing the parts to do the swap is getting very high on my list as we both know that winter up here brings things to a sudden halt. Thus you run like mad in the summer trying to play catch up.... If I get the 10 installed, I will have to re do the shafts for the crane and the PTO thus instead of re-inventing the wheel again like I just did, I want to plan ahead and drop the power divider due to it being put into a bad angle again by the 10 speed pushing the drive line back 12". The axle drive shafts will be ok, but the power divider will be the problem. And with my PTO on the T case making an odd noise I would rather eliminate future set backs by relocating the pump down below. THis will give me power to the rear winch at the same time and Yes I would plumb in a valve for feed out and pull in on the rear winch. Preferably off the side of the bed or in the rear most storage boxes as they do not get used on my rig due to dirt. This would keep them from being caught on something on the side of the bed, or bumped by something on the crane swing.

Red, If I get thing mess put together and you still want to keep the power divider I would give you first dibs on my current setup with the modified pwr divider PTO and U joint shaft .......

 

[Another Ahab]

Cant say how fast I will get around to it, as trying to prioritize and pay off some accumulated debt concerning the B&B remodel as of this point. But having the 10 laying here and amassing the parts to do the swap is getting very high on my list as we both know that winter up here brings things to a sudden halt.

That's cool, wcuhillbilly! I can't recall hearing about your B&B.

Have you told us already about that?

 

[Another Ahab]

That's cool, wcuhillbilly! I can't recall hearing about your B&B.

Have you told us already about that?

Don't you worry.

I've got a good hold of the riverbank here, we won't drift off too far.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Don't you worry.

I've got a good hold of the riverbank here, we won't drift off too far.


View attachment 669852

Not to get sidetracked with mission creep, but yes the wife runs the B&B (some discounts may apply to SS members) and I do dozer/backhoe/heavy recovery and the chief contractor/electrician/structural engineer/landscaper of the B&B...... as a side job outside of my day job for a land management alphabet agency.....NPS
Her B&B is http://www.qcdevilstowerbb.com/ A Quiet Canyon at Devils Tower B&B