She won't start in the cold!

[Lax]

Thanks for everyone's help. This coming Saturday (in a predicted snow storm) I will change the fuel filters (all three of them and see if she starts cold. If that does not work I guess I will start on the flame heater and attack that. I SURE HOPE IT IS ONLY THE FILTERS!! I can't afford anything to expensive. I'll report back to everyone. Wish me luck.

 

[Lax]

Today I changed the primary fuel filter (while it was still snowing out!!). There was some junk on the inside bottom of the canister and the valve on the bottom would not drain. Once I got got the canister off (no big deal at all) I took the valve off and cleaned it out so it drains now. I cleaned all the junk out and changed the filter. The old one looked brand new but I changed anyway. I need to change the secondaries but the parts store gave me the wrong filters so I need to go get the correct secondaries. Are they the same size as the primary filters?

Anyway, after I changed the filter I left the valve on and turned the pump on to see if was getting good fuel pressure. Immediately after turning on the fuel pump diesel fuel was streaming out of the valve so I seem to be getting good pressure at the primary. I cranked the engine to try to start it and after about 30 + seconds of nonstop cranking it finally started. I guess that means I am doing better then before but it still took 30 + seconds to start. I will be changing both secondaries next weekend I hope. I did notice that now I do get white smoke from the stack the entire time I am cranking and I don't think I got that before. Am I making progress getting this thing to start in the cold??

 

[hklvette]

After fixing the intake flame heater on mine, it was able to start in under a second once i light the heater up. See my previous post about how I fixed it.

 

[Lax]

Thanks hklvette,
Quick question for you. Today I took a look at the flame heater. I did not do anything because I was running out of time but I noticed what looked like a 1/4" plug on top/in the elbow the flame heater screws into. I'm wondering if instead of taking the whole elbow off to see if works couldn't I screw that little plug out and test the heater on the truck while looking into the elbow through that hole? I should be able to see a flame through the hole. Correct?? Second question is did yours start as hard as mine before you fixed the flame heater. Thanks!

 

[hklvette]

Mine has 50/50 gas/diesel in it at the moment, and wouldn't start at all without ether unless at or near operating temp. I don't remember a plug in the heater elbow, but i don't see why that wouldn't work as long as you have a second person to do the cranking.

 

[Lax]

I think I will give taking out that plug a try tomorrow. I hope the hole for the plug is not a blind hole. If so, I won't be able to see into the inside of the elbow. Thanks for your help.

 

[militarysteel]

is the fuel density compensator looped or blocked off? just wondering,

 

[derby]

Lax, That plug hole goes all the way thru. That is where the ether nozzle would go on an ether start kit. be careful looking in that hole.......!

 

[Lax]

Derby,
After I posted my last post I realized I should have made it clear that I do not intend to put my eyes close to the hole but instead just look from above and the side. I would think that if the system sprays fuel and has ignition that once that mixture gets to the open hole (with o2) that it would flame out of the hole. If it is working of course. Correct??

Now I have been thinking of getting my eyebrows waxed and trimmed at the salon. I would think looking into the hole from a very close distance might take care of my eyebrow issues. Maybe forever.. Thanks.

 

[tm america]

Primary filter is about half the lenght of the secondary filters . They are roughly the same diameter.

 

[Lax]

Okay. Clue number two. The flame heater is without question NOT working. I just unscrewed the plug and had my son look for any flame even some light and he saw nothing. We waited until dark to make sure he could see anything if it happened. By the way, great full moon tonight!

So now I have to fight this fight on a second front. Does anyone have any experience in fixing or installing flame heaters on a deuce?? When I engage the switch I can hear something... Anything??

 

[hklvette]

The noise you hear is the booster pump. Here's what I did, step-by-step.

1) loosen the fuel inlet at the booster pump with the tank pump running to see if you're getting enough pressure to make a fine mist. If not, the small filter for the booster pump is probably clogged. Its to the right of the injection pump as you look at the driver's side of the engine.

2) If the fuel checks out, run the pump for about one second, it helps with the next step.

3) Pull the spark plug out of the intake elbow and see if its got fuel on the electrode end. If so, continue. If not, suspect a clogged nozzle or faulty booster pump.

4) place the end of the spark plug wire that you removed within 1/2 inch of a ground (air cleaner works well) and run the heater. look/ listen for arcs from the end of the wire. If no spark, the coil/ repeater unit is probably toast or is arcing to ground in the coil/ wire. If not, continue.

5) Inspect the inside of the spark plug from cracked ceramic insulator. This was the problem that mine had. If this is the case, you'll need a "universal" spark plug wire set, and a spark plug with the same threads as the original. Thread in the new plug without a washer on it and tighten until snug. Cut one of the plug wires to the proper length, and, if you wish, place the nut and boot (in that order, so the nut tightens over the boot) on the end of the wire. If you use the boot, be sure to leave enough wire exposed to bottom out inside the coil unit. Trim the excess boot material off so that the nut will actually fit over it. Finally, place the wire in the coil, and tighten it all down.

I sure hope this helps!

 

[Lax]

Henry,
Thank you. Would you mind if I PM you tomorrow so I don't clog up this forum anymore then I already have?

 

[jhuey]

Your not clogging up the fourm. You are fighting a battle we won't have to by writing about it. I use this fourm to help me solve my issues. Thanks for your time putting it here. Good luck!

 

[OneCool70Deuce]

just my two cents...

My Deuce has the same issues; I definately plan on checking out the manifold heater deal; HOWEVER, something I did yesterday to make my truck start almost as fast as my 1ton Ford Powerstroke, was...

turn the main switch to the on position,

hear tank pump running,

carefully pull stop engine lever,

release stop engine lever,

push heater switch, give throttle 1/8 hold and then crank.

It started in less than two revs and smoothed out faster than she ever has...

I've got new fuel filters and just haven't installed them yet.

This little procedure was done in 45deg weather the other day.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

March 1st, 2010.


LAX:

When you get the manifold heater sparking and firing correctly, if you should have your guage lights on in the cab while cranking, when you fire the manifold heater the gauge lights might well flicker a small amount. On my truck you can hear the heater fire off, and when the truck is running, the exhaust smoke will change to a lighter color when the manifold heaters cut in. When they work, they work really well, but there are a few things mentioned above that can cause issues with the unit.

Good luck,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[hklvette]

My Deuce has the same issues; I definately plan on checking out the manifold heater deal; HOWEVER, something I did yesterday to make my truck start almost as fast as my 1ton Ford Powerstroke, was...

turn the main switch to the on position,

hear tank pump running,

carefully pull stop engine lever,

release stop engine lever,

push heater switch, give throttle 1/8 hold and then crank.

It started in less than two revs and smoothed out faster than she ever has...

I've got new fuel filters and just haven't installed them yet.

This little procedure was done in 45deg weather the other day.

If you're running straight diesel fuel, from what i've read on the forum you shouldn't need the flame heater at all until it gets below freezing due to the very high compression (22.5:1) of the LDT/LDS

 

[jhuey]

As I try to understand the flame heater, it's there to pre-heat the intake path components and inrush of air. As I try to wrap my hands around the process I see the flame heater using much needed oxygen for the starting of the engine to develop the flame. Kind of counter productive if let to run a long time, not to mention an open flame in a aluminum intake could cause damage. My truck will start without the flame heater well below freezing, at 25 deg it will crank about 3 revolutions before catching. I agree that if all things working together and using diesel above 30 deg it should not be needed.

 

[Lax]

Well okay guys. I guess I will continue to keep posting here so everyone can see how it is going. Next weekend I will be busy most of both days so I don't know if I will be able to get to it but when I do I will let everyone know so maybe I/we can help others.

OneCool70Deuce, Can you please explain why you use that procedure and how you came up with it? I am very curious. Were you not able to start in the cold like me until you used this procedure? Thank you.

 

[OneCool70Deuce]

Theory...

A buddy of mine used to work on the M35A2's in Vietnam. He was a military mechanic and might a add a **** good one. Really knows his stuff about diesel engines.

Anyway, I was driving my deuce about a month ago to NAPA and he was there. He started laughing first off and ask me what in the #$%^ I was going to do with the Deuce. I simply said drive the you know what out of it AND have reliable transportation when the gov't collapses.

Okay, he then told me to pull the stop engine lever(fuel cutoff) every day the first time I start it because he said they have a tendency to have leaking injectors which can cause the engine to hydraulic after sitting overnight. If you think about the pressure the injection pump builds and then imagine shutting down your engine after it's been running, it sits for 12 hours with a leaky injector and slightly fills a cylinder. He said it's common to bend a rod in these things. I've heard a few other people on here talking about how weak the rods are in the Deuce as well; I don't know of many engines that survive being hydrauliced anyway...

I figured that was one reason, but my theory is that you get all the air or should I say allow the lift pump to pump up the system before you start cranking and creating high pressure to the injectors. I'm sure the injection pump is like any other pump and likes a non-airated supply of fuel for best performance.

Like I said in the previous post; it fired off in a few revs. I was impressed, but I also realize there's some other components I need to check/replace/adjust...

Hope this helps...