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Shifting techniques of experienced Deuce Drivers

Redleg130

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***Summary of Responses to original question***

The vehicle should be in gear while moving to maintain control of the vehicle. Avoid coasting (in neutral) even when deaccelerating.

Basic technique:

To accelerate:

Use first to get moving and quickly get to second from there. Shift second, third, fourth, generally when RPM is somewhere around 20 RPM, 5th at cruising maintaining the 20 RPM as general target (RPM gauge generally pointing up but not exceeding the warning sticker).

To deaccelerate:

Downshift, using double clutch if needed (clutch to take out of gear to neutral, release clutch, clutch again to get to next lowest gear). When going into next lowest gear gently tap the accelerator (blip) to match engine speed to transmission to avoid grinding. Avoid exceeding RPM warning sticker of around 25RPM. Timing clutch, blip, and shift takes practice. When downshifting, if your truck lurches/lugs, this means you are moving too fast for the gear you are downshifting to, use brakes to slow to a speed that is matching for the gear you are trying to use.


RPM ranges can be found in Untitled (jatonkam35s.com) PS magazine's article on the Multifuel Operator on page 13.

From TM 9-2320-209-10-1 page 4-54:

Trucks covered in this manual should be operated within the following rpm limits, as shown on tachometer (l):
(a) 1200. Lowest engine rpm when operating under load.
(b) 1400-1800. Engine rpm recommended for downshifting.
(c) 1400-2200. Engine rpm recommended for cruising.
(d) 2600. Highest engine rpm recommended when pulling a very heavy load and when going up a very steep hill

Heavily loaded vehicle or steep (uphill) grade:

in case you are very heavy and/or the road is very steep (Upshifting) - starting out with the transfer case in LOW (down to the floor), getting going in 1 (or2), shifting 3-4-5, then transfer case to HIGH and shifting 4-5. In total, that gives you 7 gears when you need closer steps between the shifts.
Avoid downshifting the same way; the transfer case seems happy in the upshift LOW to HIGH but it is not synchronized and may cause additional wear in downshift situations.


Floating gears:

An advanced technique that is not universally recommended, but possible. Review responses in this thread to determine if you wish to try this. When shifting, without depressing the clutch move the gear from the gear you are in to the gear you wish to go to. To do this, you will have to match the engine RPM to the drivetrain RPM with throttle. If you get this right you can pop the transmission into the desired gear without the clutch. Doing this will take a great deal of familiarity with what speed range/gear combinations your truck likes, and good coordination.

" Being a rebuilder of heavy truck transmissions, I can honestly say "floating the gears" is the worst thing you can do for the longevity of the transmission. " - Rustystud - Read his post page two for deeper explanation and subsequent debate on floating gears.






This summary is for someone looking for this information so they can find it quickly. Ill edit this summary based on responses.



***Original Question***

I am familiar with manual shifting in general, but most certainly not with a vehicle of this scale. If this is answered somewhere, please point me in that direction as I wasn't able to find this information using the search terms I used. The information I found focused on the unusual shift pattern and what gears are or not synchronized.

I was able to get my truck home after a 12 hour trip and am quite happy with it. I managed to do this without being too hard on the transmission but as I was driving I was wondering what methods experienced duce drivers use in shifting that I just wouldn't know about. Based on the information I did get:

Use first to get moving and quickly get to second from there (this takes getting used to, but not bad)

second, third, fourth, generally when RPM is somewhere around 20 RPM, 5th at cruising maintaining the 20 RPM as general target (RPM gauge generally pointing up but not exceeding the warning sticker).

If the above is incorrect, please do correct me.

I assume downshifting is desirable to save brakes? I tried this but my technique was poor so I just went to neutral and used brakes to stop for the time being.

Naturally, this will take some practice and windshield time, but if experienced drivers could share good shifting habits for both moving up through gears and slowing/stopping I would appreciate it.
 
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98G

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What you're doing is ok except for going to neutral and brakes to stop. You want controlled downshifts all the way to 2nd (at least).

There's two reasons for this. The first reason is that in case of a brake failure (far from impossible) you'll have much better control of the vehicle if you're in gear.

The second reason is what if your planned stop is canceled? The red light turned green. You're in neutral coasting and you've decelerated somewhat. Engine is idling. Now you need to accelerate. Which gear? What rpm? If you're already in gear, there's no question.

When I was getting my CDL A I was told that going to neutral and braking to a stop was a ticketable offense for failing to maintain positive control of the vehicle. While I can't imagine this actually resulting in a ticket, it can certainly cause you to fumble and look less than competent. (But avoiding that is the whole reason you're here and asking appropriate questions, right?)
 

HDN

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I'd never put a vehicle in neutral to come to a stop, regardless in size. It's definitely a control issue.

That said, with all the manual transmissions I've worked (from a 1999 Jeep Wrangler to a 1942 Autocar halftrack), I've found that downshifting by one gear or to the middle gear works the best for engine braking and getting going again quickly. That of course depends on whether you're working a 3, 4, or 5-speed gearbox.
 

Redleg130

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Thank you very much for the reply, and yes it would be desirable to keep positive control of this heavy vehicle. The problem I am having is I keep missing downshift (wont pop in) or I feel like I am forcing it. I have a long stretch of backroad I can use to cycle this and get familiar with it, I think my timing is off and this should improve with practice.
 

98G

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Thank you very much for the reply, and yes it would be desirable to keep positive control of this heavy vehicle. The problem I am having is I keep missing downshift (wont pop in) or I feel like I am forcing it. I have a long stretch of backroad I can use to cycle this and get familiar with it, I think my timing is off and this should improve with practice.
Double clutch and increase rpm for the downshift.
 

pitpawten

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Start by changing your transmission fluid out for some non detergent ISO 40 weight motor oil it made a difference in the shiftability of mine

I definitely have an issue with the fourth gear synchro cuz I get a small amount of grinding no matter what I do going into fourth from top or bottom but when I change the oil it also alleviated the stiffness of driving into the next gear that I was experiencing

Also agree if you're in fifth only downshift through third will save running the whole gear stack all the way down similarly if in fourth just bounced through second
 

chucky

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A clutch is for taking off from a dead stop then again when you get ready to take off again ! Your accelerator pedal is your clutch for shifting all the way to top gear and back down to 1st then stop ! And its not a place to rest your left foot ! It should always be on the floor ! Get used to never going for the clutch if you can help it and just float the gear into the next one without you barely feeling when both gears are spinning at the same speed and gently goes in and use your fuel pedal to float it back out of gear and then fuel pedal again to match rpms to go into the next gear either direction up or down !
 

HDN

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A clutch is for taking off from a dead stop then again when you get ready to take off again ! Your accelerator pedal is your clutch for shifting all the way to top gear and back down to 1st then stop ! And its not a place to rest your left foot ! It should always be on the floor ! Get used to never going for the clutch if you can help it and just float the gear into the next one without you barely feeling when both gears are spinning at the same speed and gently goes in and use your fuel pedal to float it back out of gear and then fuel pedal again to match rpms to go into the next gear either direction up or down !
My dad with his leet trucker skills can do that. I haven't had enough experience with manual truck transmissions to pull that off!
 

chucky

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My dad with his leet trucker skills can do that. I haven't had enough experience with manual truck transmissions to pull that off!
iTs the easiest thing youll ever do once you get it in your mind that your foot has to match the speed of two spinning gears to the exact same speed then it floats in like butter maybe 2 or 3 ounces of pressure on the shifter ! Practice a day or so it like breathing its just a natural act !
 
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72m35a2

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1st gear and reverse gear are UN syncronized all others are. to down shift smoothly blip the throttle at the moment of shift to match engine rpm with road speed same with upshift but wait till rpms drop to next highest gear speed can use transfer case for low and high shifting would be twin sticking
so a low and high for each gear giving you a 10 speed
 

kendelrio

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iTs the easiest thing youll ever do once you get it in your mind that your foot has to match the speed of to spinning gears to the exact same speed then it floats in like butter maybe 2 or 3 ounces of pressure on the shifter ! Practice a day or so it like breathing its just a natural act !
Once you learn this skill, it's definitely almost impossible to ever do it the other way!
 

Redleg130

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Isn't the M35 transmission syncronized? Granted the syncros on @Redleg130 's truck may be worn to near uselessness.
I think my transmission is in good shape, its the operator (me) that is the problem.

"blip the throttle" - going to practice this today on backroads - timing and appropriate throttle is what I need to get down. Ill also try floating if I can manage this without mangling my gears.
 

kblazer87

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A clutch is for taking off from a dead stop then again when you get ready to take off again ! Your accelerator pedal is your clutch for shifting all the way to top gear and back down to 1st then stop ! And its not a place to rest your left foot ! It should always be on the floor ! Get used to never going for the clutch if you can help it and just float the gear into the next one without you barely feeling when both gears are spinning at the same speed and gently goes in and use your fuel pedal to float it back out of gear and then fuel pedal again to match rpms to go into the next gear either direction up or down !
I taught my kids to drive in manual trans vehicle 20 years ago and taught them this technique once they had mastered the clutch. They can still float gears when they need to. Once learned rarely forgotten.
 

ToddJK

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I think the others have covered the downshifting aspect of it well. Be sure to read your data plate on the dash that has the shift pattern and the speed ratios of each gear, this will also help you know when you can downshift until you get more experienced.
I'm sure though, you find going from 1st to 2nd can be a pita at times but there's a trick to that too! The shifter is under spring tension when it's over to the left for 1st or Rev, but when you shift to 2nd, don't guide it yourself, let the shifter move itself to the right and once the spring tension is off, it'll go straight up into 2nd everytime. I'd also say, if you're clutching and not floating, don't be afraid to use some pressure to make it go into gear, don't muscle it in, but those transmissions are not known for being a smooth shifter like you'd expect from a civilian rig. Don't forget, there's a plate on the bottom of the bell housing you can remove, inside is the rod for the throw out bearing, it has a grease zert on it, you'll want to grease that when you get a chance.
 

kblazer87

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I think my transmission is in good shape, its the operator (me) that is the problem.

"blip the throttle" - going to practice this today on backroads - timing and appropriate throttle is what I need to get down. Ill also try floating if I can manage this without mangling my gears.
Moving up through the gears you should rarely need to "blip" the throttle. Slide the shifter out of gear with smooth, easy motion, to next higher gear just as you are letting off the throttle should allow it to slide right in to gear. You want to catch it right as both engine and tranny are "catching up" to each other as rpm of motor drops just a bit. You'll learn by sound and feel when exactly to slide from gear to gear.
It is opposite coming down through gears and slowing. You'll need to blip throttle to increase engine rpm slightly so motor and trans can once more "catch up" to each other.
 

98G

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Isn't the M35 transmission syncronized? Granted the syncros on @Redleg130 's truck may be worn to near uselessness.

I've never driven a manual M35 - my A3 has a 4-speed automatic :p
It is, and double clutching shouldn't be absolutely necessary.

As others have said, you can do it with no clutch at all.
 
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