should i buy a 2.5 or 5 ton truck?

[Jeepsinker]

I know they are. Age is a factor no doubt, but so is poor design. And I'm not saying there aren't any poor designs on the deuce, there certainly are. But the things that make life harder are poorly designed on the 939 series. These are my conclusions and opinions based on my everyday experience with both of these kinds of trucks. I know others experiences are different, so take it for what it's worth. I'm not trying to start an argument or debate, just sharing what I see to be problems.

 

[justin22885]

I can't comment, I haven't driven either of them. I just based my decision to go with the deuce based on other factors. I just doubt I will leave it stock. I enjoy customizing, personalizing, upgrading, and modifications too much.

 

[justin22885]

Here's an idea. We mentioned how offroad, there is a lot of shift between the cab and the box. So, what if we had a means to go from the cab to the box, but allowed the two to remain separate, able to move independently by placing a flexible maybe rubber or insulated canvas tunnel between the two so you could climb through it into the back as opposed to having to get out in potentially freezing weather?

 

[Jeepsinker]

You would be wise to spend a couple days reading down the lists of threads on the deuce in both this section and the deuce modification forum. Most of these things, including the rubber tunnel idea were covered in some depth very recently and some of our membership gets irritated quite easily seeing the same questions and ideas posted up over and over just a few days apart. Just a friendly suggestion.

 

[justin22885]

What I am going to do is design/engineer a product to do what I need. I do need one piece of information though. I intend to remove the bed and construct a camper shell for it. This shell may very well be no different than the kind of shell you may see on commercial box-van like campers with the piece that goes over the top of the cab.

So I am looking around for more information to help me, some of it I know i can find already, like track width, frame width etc.. But how tall is the cab from the bottom of the frame to the top of the roof? and what is the maximum length shell a standard wheelbase M35A2 can handle?.. What I mean by this is say a 29 foot camper was to be used, 20 feet from the back of the cab to the back of the camper.. If the floor was properly supported and reinforced or the frame of the camper made strong enough, there shouldn't be any balance or weight issues with having that much of an extension over the standard length bed, should there?.. Basically what I'm trying to figure out is my maximum length for a box on the standard wheelbase truck.

 

[Mike929]

Check the TMs for some basic measurements. How you plan to attach the box to the frame is another can of worms. Suggest you load the camper in the bed or take a serious look at the way they mounted the bed. The bed is not hard mounted to the frame so the frame can flex without twisting the bed.

Tons of discussion on this subject in the forums.

Jeepsinker,
I will research the areas you mentioned and address in other threads since he is pursuing a deuce.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I wouldn't go over maybe 14' long for the box. I'm still sticking with the S280 shelter being the way to go for you, bu it's your horse. Ride it the way you want to.

 

[patracy]

Actually keeping quiet and reading the original post I have determined that your best course of action is to take a little time and learn to use the search tool on the site. There are camper build threads, shelter threads, re-power threads, truck difference threads (2.5/5-ton or M44/M809/M939 or LDT/LDS or NHC/CTA engines), camping trailer threads, living off the grid threads and a plethora of other threads ad nauseum.....

Don't like the SS search? Use google.com and the site: SEARCH_TERM_HERE feature.

The search is actually google on the site. It already does that. Most of the false positive results are from people improperly titling their threads.

 

[justin22885]

I've actually been reading up on a couple threads relating to disc brake conversions.. I think I got it down what would need to be acquired and what would need to be done in order to make the conversion, and I think its something I would end up doing. I am also reading about a 5.9L cummins conversion. I will give the multifuel engine a chance, there are some upgrades to it that don't seem to cost much I can try and if there are any issues with performance or reliability then I'll look into a cummins conversion. In all, I dont think this would be very difficult at all to get out of the M35a2 exactly what I need to get out of it

 

[Jeepsinker]

Yeah I don't see any reason it won't do what you need. The disk brake conversion will be good because calipers aren't nearly as likely to fail as wheel cylinders, so you'll gain some reliability and safety points to. Parts for them will be more available commercially too.

 

[justin22885]

So what do you guys think the maximum length of a trailer shell i could fabricate for it would be? Do you think I could get a 20' shell on it? It would be a lot of overhang, not sure if regulations would allow that or if it would throw the balance off too much. I know i could build a frame for the camper portion that was supported in a way to allow that much extending behind the rear of the frame.

 

[porkysplace]

So what do you guys think the maximum length of a trailer shell i could fabricate for it would be? Do you think I could get a 20' shell on it?

On a M35A2 NO
On a M36A2 probably , but it would be useless on any kind of hill you would be dragging the back on the ground.

 

[justin22885]

On a M35A2 NO
On a M36A2 probably , but it would be useless on any kind of hill you would be dragging the back on the ground.

Yeah, you're probably right. Besides, I've found some floor-plans for converted M109 boxes and found that some of these actually have little RV combo toilet/showers installed into them. What I will do when I design mine is go with the basic dimensions of the M109 shell but add a section above the cab to use either as storage or as my bed. If I design that top section to be my bed I may also have the front facing able to swing open so I can use it as an alternative emergency exit, just kick it open then roll out onto the hood (say if the other exits were blocked by perhaps a fire, or some kind of collision damage.)

I will now start sketching out a camper shell in a 3D solid modeling program.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I would say 14' max length. That should be plenty unless you have a family of six or something.

 

[justin22885]

I would say 14' max length. That should be plenty unless you have a family of six or something.

Nah, it'll just be me and maybe a dog. I was looking on youtube and found someone who took a 109 box and added an extension on the top for the bed. He also had a shower installed inside the camper as well. This is basically how I will set mine up, however I will probably have a door on the side instead of in the rear.

Looking at other future potential modifications, I've been finding that a lot of people havent really been getting all that much mileage out of their multifuel engines. I can predict that in all likeliness I will probably be doing an engine/tranny swap to either a cat 3116, DT466 (if it'll fit) or the 5.9L cummins, whichever one is going to be the most reliable, easiest to work on and longevity, (I have to admit that cat yellow matches the olive drab green fairly nicely.)

So.. M35A2, custom built camper matching the 109 box dimensions, disc brake conversion, larger tires, engine/tranny swap, and I like music so my last upgrade will probably be a sound system.. And if I will be living in that and driving it often I will probably want heating/air conditioning which it would appear this truck has neither.

The costs of doing all of this are going to be enormous, absolutely enormous. But, I want it to be perfect to my own image and since I will be living out of it ill be able to scrounge up the funds as I go along to make more and more upgrades, improvements, modifications, and customizations so when all is said and done I will have something I can call perfect.

About what I said earlier about cabovers, am I the only one who really likes the look of a cabover cargo truck like the 1078?

 

[justin22885]

Hmm, in the photos I've seen of the M939 side by side with an M35, the M939 looked considerably larger, but when I look up actual specs between the two it says the height and width is almost the same.. Are these two trucks really about the same width/height?.. It's possible when I seen them side by side the 939 just had bigger tires on it?

 

[rustystud]

Yeah, you're probably right. Besides, I've found some floor-plans for converted M109 boxes and found that some of these actually have little RV combo toilet/showers installed into them. What I will do when I design mine is go with the basic dimensions of the M109 shell but add a section above the cab to use either as storage or as my bed. If I design that top section to be my bed I may also have the front facing able to swing open so I can use it as an alternative emergency exit, just kick it open then roll out onto the hood (say if the other exits were blocked by perhaps a fire, or some kind of collision damage.)

I will now start sketching out a camper shell in a 3D solid modeling program.

Yea fire or collision or maybe armed gunmen after you right ! Just kidding, sounds like your trying to make a survival rig. Either way I would go with the "IHC" DT-466 engine as it will have the most parts available (since it was originally a farm tractor engine in the 70's ) and it will not have any computer crap to deal with. Plus parts will be cheaper especially over the "Cat" . Have you priced Cat parts lately ? They are horrendously expensive !!!

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Hmm, in the photos I've seen of the M939 side by side with an M35, the M939 looked considerably larger, but when I look up actual specs between the two it says the height and width is almost the same.. Are these two trucks really about the same width/height?.. It's possible when I seen them side by side the 939 just had bigger tires on it?

No.

 

[mcmullag]

You really need to do a walk around and drive these things before you spend a lot of money, or any money. I have owned two deuces and on my second M923a2. The M923a2 is a monster. when you walk by the back tires you think you are standing by a large road grader. the truck is also wider than the deuce, and taller, I look down slightly into 18 wheeler cabs passing me on the highway. more thoughts just to help you out....first it sounded like you were just going to keep the vehicle on rural property, then it is mentioned you will be driving it around town... Madison? or some small town? then you mention traveling around the country. I am not beating up, but please take these things for a drive before you buy. For going around rural property the deuce will work great. for driving around town, the M939 series is way better at keeping up with traffic. For traveling around the country. I would buy a used F250 and put a camper on the back. I had a nice low mileage 87 deuce with 10 really nice NDCC tires on it. Went to a parade an hour away by highway, stopped for breakfast after 45 mins. I was vibrating at the restaurant table for 15 mins. just my two cents, get up next to these things, drive them. my opinion, the truck I have now is too heavy to take off road. just trying to help.

 

[justin22885]

Well, my issues with the 5-ton around town is will it even fit? Some of these streets around here get pretty narrow. Heck, will the deuce even fit down the streets? And no, I'm not in madison, just a small town, I dislike bigger cities. In another post I said I will be driving it around a lot on highways. I noticed the 5-ton has a 65mph top speed, probably an engine able to handle those high speeds for higher mileage, and already a decent (maybe still not the best) braking system.

Here is the issue. The M35 is better for some of the things I need a truck to do, the 5-ton is better for some of the other takss I need a truck to do. So neither one will do EVERYTHING I need a truck to do without work. If the deuce is simpler, easier to work on, and is easier for field repairs, but I would need to change the engine/tranny to make it comfortably handle 60-65mph does it still remain simpler and easier to work on compared to the engine and tranny out of a 5-ton or do field repairs become essentially the same at this point? And when im done traveling around and decide where I want to buy land, this truck will be used a LOT offroad as transportation and a tool, heck if it had PTO I may even use it as a tractor, it would be put to serious work.

So give all that, the deuce in order to do everything I'd want would need new brakes, new engine/tranny, bigger tires and perhaps a power steering add-on. The 5-ton to do everything I want, and the automatic allison transmission as a bonus, so it doesn't really NEED anything more, but it does weigh about 8,000 pounds more. What does this really mean for a 21,500lb truck vs a 13,000lb truck when in the dirt, grass, over the rocks, or driving through an urban town? When traveling, I will actually carry a small motorcycle on the back for cheaper commuting after I've stopped for a while but how well does either truck fit into a parking lot?

As I stated earlier, both trucks offer something the other doesnt, the 5-ton already being set up to do everything it would need to do, but may be too big for some of the things I need it to do which isnt really something i can fix. And the deuce isnt really set up for everything, or really much of anything I need it to do at this point but this can be fixed, and its smaller size makes for better driving on the street, and lighter weight should be better offroad.