Starter bolt backed out and fried the starter

[frank8003]

View attachment 835139

no workie, and one momement after I posted no workie it works
Ain't puters fun?

 

[Gamble]

The STE-ICE connector is under the large round cover to the left of the shifter.

With the ignition switch off, by momentarily shorting pins (S) and (T) together it will spin up the starter if it's good but the truck won't start. This completely bypasses the control box so if the starter spins your problem is somewhere between the iginition switch and the starter solenoid.

View attachment 835140

Ok, so this step won't start the vehicle but will aid in troubleshooting. Got it.

 

[Action]

Ok, so this step won't start the vehicle but will aid in troubleshooting. Got it.

It won't start the motor if the start switch is OFF.

 

[Gamble]

It won't start the motor if the start switch is OFF.

So... You're saying once turned ON it will start the truck? So, to be clear:

1. Take off cap
2. Insert wire into pins while run switch is in the OFF position
3. Then, while wire is in both pins, start the truck or dont start the truck?

 

[papakb]

If everything is functioning properly when you insert the jumper into S & T you only want to leave it there for about the same amount of time you'd try to start the truck with the ignition switch. A few seconds. If the starter is functional it's going to spin up as soon as contact is made between the pins. With the ignition switch in the OFF position the #54 wire to the fuel solenoid isn't powered so no fuel will get to the engine and the truck will not start. If the ignition switch is in the RUN position it's going to start just as if you had hit the start position on the ignition switch. This can also be used as an emergency start to get the truck running if you know the control box has failed. A handy trick to know.

 

[Gamble]

You're a Genius, it kicked right over! Attached is the STE/ICE Port diagram for anyone who may need it, the diagram is reversed on my truck. Ok, so I guess this means that the start box is likely fried or wires on the front side of the connection to the starter are fried.

 

[Gamble]

Ok, I changed out my smart start box for a new one and still nothing. My remaining options as I understand them are:

1. Start switch itself
2. Engine Harness (positive power wire to the starter solenoid)

Any other ideas?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Clearly you haven’t broken out the multi meter and schematic...sans throwing a bunch of money at it, electrical issues require some troubleshooting after what happened .
Dont forget to check the circuit breakers behind the instrument cluster.

 

[papakb]

Steve is right here. It's time for some good old fashioned troubleshooting.

Did you disconnect the batteries when you replaced the control box? If you didn't you may have cooked another one.

If you've already replaced the control box here's what you need to look at:

Do you have 24 volts going into the ignition switch on wire #11A?

Do you have 24 volts coming out of the ignition switch when you go to "RUN" on wire #29A to circuit breaker CB2 and pin "B" of the engine connector?

If your gauges move when you go to "RUN" then the circuit breaker is good.

Do you have 24 volts coming out of the ignition switch when you go to "START" on wire #14A to the neutral start switch?

Do you have 24 volts from the neutral start switch on wite #14B back to pin "A" on the engine connector of the control box?

 

[Gamble]

"
Do you have 24 volts going into the ignition switch on wire #11A?

Do you have 24 volts coming out of the ignition switch when you go to "RUN" on wire #29A to circuit breaker CB2 and pin "B" of the engine connector?

Do you have 24 volts coming out of the ignition switch when you go to "START" on wire #14A to the neutral start switch?"
----
Yes, I have 24 v going Into the ignition switch on wire 11A.

Yes, I have 24 v coming out of 29A and My guages Move when I go to Run.

I do not start the truck in neutral. I have the 4l80e 4 speed. I start in park. I do not know if I have a neutral start switch.

No, I have Nothing coming out of the ignition switch when I go to "START" on wire #14A to the neutral start switch.

 

[DREDnot]

I do not start the truck in neutral. I have the 4l80e 4 speed. I start in park. I do not know if I have a neutral start switch.

No, I have Nothing coming out of the ignition switch when I go to "START" on wire #14A to the neutral start switch.

Just an FYI...All automatic transmission vehicles have a "neutral start" switch. The difference between the three and four speed shifters is that there is a second "pad" that closes the neutral start switch in the Park position just like it does in the neutral position.

 

[Gamble]

Just an FYI...All automatic transmission vehicles have a "neutral start" switch. The difference between the three and four speed shifters is that there is a second "pad" that closes the neutral start switch in the Park position just like it does in the neutral position.

View attachment 835271View attachment 835271

Thank you for that clarification.

 

[papakb]

If you have nothing coming out of the ignition switch on #14 it looks like it's time for a new switch. That's the signal that goes to the neutral start switch and from there to the control box. Without it it's the same as having the transmission in gear. Your not going to have the necessary signal up to the control box and them onward to the starter solenoid.

If you choose to go with a keyswitch replacement make sure you buy one made in America by reputable companies like Grote or Cole-Hersee and not a piece of cheal Chinese junk that's going to fail in short order.

 

[Gamble]

I have replaced the ignition start switch and now have voltage coming out of 14A when I place the switch in the run position but still no start. Now to examine and/or replace the neutral start switch. Hopefully that's the issue.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I have replaced the ignition start switch and now have voltage coming out of 14A when I place the switch in the run position but still no start. Now to examine and/or replace the neutral start switch. Hopefully that's the issue.

you can bypass the NSS, just run run a jumper between the two leads after unplugging them from the NSS.

 

[Gamble]

Welp, safe to say I have found the root of the problem. This wasn't readily visible until I walked it all the way back. Nor was the extent of the damage to the NSS. Here's the 14A connector to the NSS. Burned through completely.

Wire 40 and another which I cannot ascertain it's number are also burned pretty bad. Thankfully the burned connectors are on the NSS side.

RW, which wires should I jump? 14A and which one, 40 or the unlabeled?

 

[Gamble]

More pics:

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

NSS is just a pass through, so the wire numbers are the same, 2 of them…or marked A and B but makes no difference which side they plug into the NSS. To bypass it, you plug the 2 into each other with a jumper of some sort, they are both the same gender so they can’t actually connect like a male and female connection.
Down in that area is power to back lighting on tnr shifter, NSS and 2 wires to the ebrake switch.

 

[Gamble]

Yes, I see two wires labeled 14. So there are two 14 wires and one 40 wire. So the two 14 wires need to be connected. Got it. I also need to see what 40 runs to.

 

[papakb]

PLEASE, LOOK AT THE SCHEMATICS IN THE BACK OF YOUR -20-3 MANUAL. Every question answered here has been on those pages.