The "While you're in there thread"

[gimpyrobb]

Frank, I think that just gives you access to the lifters and push-rods.

 

[The King Machine]

Yeah lifters and push rods in there. Its a good thing I dug in there as I pulled one of the lifters out by accident when I removed a push rod with too much vigor. **** surface tension strikes again.

So while my heads and injectors are at the machine shop, I bypassed my FDC and got everything ready for reassembly. I'm going to reuse the old head studs and find new nuts.

While I wait, I started getting ready to pull the trans for clutch work and t-case swap.

So the question needs to be asked again.

What should I fix, change, or replace? "While I'm in there"

 

[VPed]

Replace the throwout bearing. I believe it is a standard bearing size available at any bearing supply place. At least it is a common bearing on the 5 ton multifuel trucks.

EDIT: sorry, I meant the pilot bearing is a standard bearing.

 

[bonedoc]

How about the rear main seal on the crankshaft. I've read of people having issues with that leaking and leading to the clutch crapping out.

 

[The King Machine]

First off I want to thank you guys for all the help and wisdom.


I have the new gaskets installed, I used the copper spray a gasket as recommended. The heads are torqued down to 157lbs as sated in the TM's for a TD block.
My injectors are the 2 hole type and are currently being tested at a local injector shop for $25 a piece. I have also ordered a digital EGT and boost gauge combo set from Those Military guys, pricey but I think its best not to cheap out on important gauges.
I have the trans and tcase unbolted while I wait for my parts for the engine. I hope to have them dropped by next week and start installing the Air shift first.

Then pop back on the engine and finish the re-assembly.

I feel the need to give some back ground info on why I had to dig into the engine. I had noticed for a couple months the engine was making oil and my oil pressure was dropping when the truck warmed up. I knew this was the symptoms of diesel contamination in the oil. I don't drive the truck often so I don't think I did any damage operating it in this condition.
Aside from that the head gaskets were weeping coolant and oil front and back. After I pulled the heads off I observed burn marks between the cylinders. I believe combustion was bypassing the fire rings. The machine shop reported the front head was warped pretty bad. There is evidence someone had done a recent head gasket job. However I think it was a poor attempt, clearly the heads were not resurfaced and the wrong torque values were used as many of the head bolts were not tight enough in my opinion.

The reason for the fuel reaching the crack case is still a mystery to me. I've read the FDC, flame heater, bad injectors, and the IP are potential culprits.
I have since removed the flame heater, injectors tested, and the FDC bypassed which leaves only the IP left.

Question 1: Is there a way I can check to see if the IP is leaking fuel into the crank case? I have the rad out etc. and I would like to make sure the IP is in good working order before I put it all back together just in case it needs work.


Note: The last time I used the truck something very strange had happened. This was the straw that broke the camels back and perpetuated my tear down.

I was teaching the GF to drive the truck. Just as we were parking the truck for the night she stalled it. Unfortunately because I was not driving I neglected to reach over and pull the fuel cut off handle and turn the power master switch off. The in tank lift pump ran all night.
That night I got into the beer and slept like a baby. In the morning I woke to find a pool of fuel under the primary fuel filter and turbo area. I knew right away what I had done (meat head). I tried to turn the motor over with the fuel cut off handle pulled, she would not turn. It was then I realized I most likely had hydro locked the engine with fuel. I checked the dip stick and sure enough a lot of fuel was in the crankcase. While I was pulling parts off the engine I found fuel everywhere. The turbo was saturated with fuel, all the pistons had a fair amount of fuel in them also.

Question 2: On a healthy multi fuel engine is it possible to hydrolock the engine with fuel the way I did with mine?

 

[sigo]

I've read in several PS monthlys that fuel hydro lock is/was common. That's why the startup procedure was written to check for hydrolock and includes a starter bump with the fuel cutoff pulled. I don't recall why these tend to leak fuel into the cylinders but I'm sure someone will chime in. There's even a PS article that says pull starting and towing a deuce should be avoided because you won't catch it if your engine is hydrolocked.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The IP has a fuel booster pump built into it. If memory serves, there is an O-ring in there that can leak fuel into the crankcase. I might be able to post pics tomorrow.

 

[The King Machine]

Ok I'll read up on the booster pump.

I have my EGT and boost gauges now. Drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold. For the boost probe I'm thinking I'll use 1 of the 2 holes on the air intake pipe leftover from the intake flame heater. I placed a large order for parts from 3 diferent vendors TJN Murray, Eastern, and Eriks. Mostly clutch parts and a few other items I needed. Still waiting for my injectors, in the mean time I dropped the Transmission and transfer case. When I drained the Sprag t-case oil I found a lot of metal flakes, note the picture. I'm going to paint the outside of the new Air shift T-case and bolt that sucker in later this week.

The transmission removal was a bit of a pain, I learned of a few ways to make it easier for when I put it back in. I did not remove the PTO. I was eager to see what had caused the clutch to fail, I suspected oil had contaminated it. It turns out I was right, It was saturated with motor oil. The rear main seal is roasted, so I will swap that out. I'm going to check the seal on the transmission by rolling it onto some blocks with the input shaft toward the ground and leave it for over night, if I see any oil drips I'll change that seal out too.
My throw out bearing was toast and the clutch disc was about 70% worn so its a good thing I'm taking care of this.

Question: How much play is normal on the transmission input shaft? mine seems to have a bit of a wobble.

 

[TB58]

My humble recommendation if you have any question about the input leaking, then while you have it apart replace the input bearing and housing on the transmission. It is fairly inexpensive and doing it now sure beats pulling everything again later.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The transmissions have slop on the input shafts. Once it is installed in the pilot bushing it goes away(in my experience).

 

[rustystud]

Ok I'll read up on the booster pump.

I have my EGT and boost gauges now. Drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold. For the boost probe I'm thinking I'll use 1 of the 2 holes on the air intake pipe leftover from the intake flame heater. I placed a large order for parts from 3 diferent vendors TJN Murray, Eastern, and Eriks. Mostly clutch parts and a few other items I needed. Still waiting for my injectors, in the mean time I dropped the Transmission and transfer case. When I drained the Sprag t-case oil I found a lot of metal flakes, note the picture. I'm going to paint the outside of the new Air shift T-case and bolt that sucker in later this week.

The transmission removal was a bit of a pain, I learned of a few ways to make it easier for when I put it back in. I did not remove the PTO. I was eager to see what had caused the clutch to fail, I suspected oil had contaminated it. It turns out I was right, It was saturated with motor oil. The rear main seal is roasted, so I will swap that out. I'm going to check the seal on the transmission by rolling it onto some blocks with the input shaft toward the ground and leave it for over night, if I see any oil drips I'll change that seal out too.
My throw out bearing was toast and the clutch disc was about 70% worn so its a good thing I'm taking care of this.

Question: How much play is normal on the transmission input shaft? mine seems to have a bit of a wobble.

There is no oil seal on the transmission input shaft. So if you invert it you will drain all the oil out. The transmissions uses a reverse thread pattern on the inside of the throw-out bearing flange. As the input shaft spins it flings the oil outward into the reverse pattern grooves and those channel the oil back to the transmission. Jeepsinker was working on a modified flange that would allow for a oil seal like Gringeltaub (Gerhard) made.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Yes, and I got one done before I got hurt and my machinist got swamped with work again.

 

[The King Machine]

Yeah this is the juicy stuff.
I'll explore the TM's and look for an exploded diagram of the transmission. That will help me understand how this all fits together. I can't deny TB58's logic here so I'll take the time to figure it out. If these guys are going through the trouble to customise the parts then its worth investigating.

Can you post a picture of your creation Jeep?

 

[Jeepsinker]

Sure. I'll take a couple pics and post them up for you. I need to get a batch made up to sell. That was the initial plan.

 

[rustystud]

Yes, and I got one done before I got hurt and my machinist got swamped with work again.

Hey, no pressure . How are you doing anyway ? Arm working OK ?

 

[The King Machine]

I'm on the up swing now. Heads are on, turbo and manifolds are back on, new rear main seal installed, airshift t-case installed and plumbed, Pyro and boost are partially installed, Fly wheel has been resurfaced, fire wall painted, all the intake parts painted also.

I'll post some pictures up later today


Question:

Has anyone had trouble with TJN Murray? I've ordered from Erik's and Eastern they were both fantastic. I have not had the same experience with TJN. They have been stringing me along for over a month now. Wont answer my emails, and when they do its after I've threatened to cancel the order. I've made one final inquiry before I pull the plug. I'm at a road block with the truck until I get my clutch parts from them.

(Edit) the box was shipped today

yahoo!

 

[RaggedyMan]

Question:

Has anyone had trouble with TJN Murray? I've ordered from Erik's and Eastern they were both fantastic. I have not had the same experience with TJN. They have been stringing me along for over a month now. Wont answer my emails, and when they do its after I've threatened to cancel the order. I've made one final inquiry before I pull the plug. I'm at a road block with the truck until I get my clutch parts from them.

(Edit) the box was shipped today

yahoo!

I bought my deuce from Murray last month and as little problems reared their ugly heads "they" sent me parts w/o cost. It wasn't a lot of items but a new tranny lid, oil pressure gauge & sending unit among a few other things ain't to shabby. Now, having said that the last text I sent went unanswered but I had figured the problem out anyway so I never followed up. I have never ordered from them but I have a sister an hour away from there, next month I'm going and get what I need off my "wants list". Mostly because it's fun to just walk around and look and besides, they're right behind the casino.

 

[bonedoc]

I'm on the up swing now. Heads are on, turbo and manifolds are back on, new rear main seal installed, airshift t-case installed and plumbed, Pyro and boost are partially installed, Fly wheel has been resurfaced, fire wall painted, all the intake parts painted also.

I'll post some pictures up later today


Question:

Has anyone had trouble with TJN Murray? I've ordered from Erik's and Eastern they were both fantastic. I have not had the same experience with TJN. They have been stringing me along for over a month now. Wont answer my emails, and when they do its after I've threatened to cancel the order. I've made one final inquiry before I pull the plug. I'm at a road block with the truck until I get my clutch parts from them.

(Edit) the box was shipped today

yahoo!

I've bought many things from them and never had any issues. I had a bit of a wait last summer when I ordered a complete cab seal kit as they were waiting on pieces but they came through.
I usually talk directly to Keith or Aubrey. I just talked to Aubrey about injector lines on Monday. We got back to me by Wednesday confirming they had all 6 lines and according to the tracking they will be here tomorrow.
No complaints here, actually I've had no issues with any vendor for any parts. Any delays were beyond their control

 

[The King Machine]

They have made it right, it's all good. Expedited shipping

 

[The King Machine]

Finally have the new clutch in and the trans bolted back up. Everything I wanted to get done I've nearly completed.

I have this one nagging thought that keeps bouncing around the inside of me head.............................................

Should I dig into the IP?

It's the only area I have not touched, I'm wondering if there is any kind of maintenance I should do on it. I'm trying to track down an LDS pump, but I'm not sure I'll find one in time. I would like to have a spare pump on the shelf