Towing a M105a2 w/ civilian Pick Up ?

[98G]

98G: "...The rear bumper is custom made with a custom integral hitch set much higher in order to tow military trailers level (actually optimized for the M1101's height). It is not just a riser that would multiply twisting forces and break things..."

I'd like to see some photos of that setup and any details you might be able to provide.

Steve

Crude, bruteforce, 1/4" wall 6×6 connected to the truck's frame via 1/4" wall 2×2 and 3/8" plate. I'll eventually get around to wrapping the ends around the dually flares. The pin for the hitch receiver uses a 3/4" hole and a towbar pin.

I used it to tow my (loaded to the gills) M989A1 yesterday, off road and brakes caged. (Don't even consider towing that monster on the roads without an airbrake vehicle)

 

[Recovry4x4]

You have mountains in Georgia ?

Yes, we have mountains in GA. The highest point (not that high) in the state is 4784 ft.

 

[quickfarms]

Why would you ever surrender your CDL, the only additional cost to keep it is the medical.

The states that do not require a CDL for a non commercial three axle truck or for towing a trailer with a gvw over 10,000 lbs have created an exemption that is not in the federal code.

The federal government just won there case against California. California was not following the entire federal code.

It is quite probable that a CDL will be required to drive a three axle truck or tow a trailer with a gvw over 10,000 in the future in every state.

 

[98G]

We're getting off topic, but I'm happy to answer that question.

I didn't consider dropping it a big deal. If they require it in the future I'll be happy to take the tests and demonstrate competence. Think about it, shouldn't everyone who drives one of these things be able to take the test cold, with no warning, and pass easily on the first try? If you fear the exam, perhaps your skill level isn't where it should be (and no, this isn't directed at anyone. I have no idea how well you guys drive)

Nurses are the same way. You hear them talking about how hard the NCLEX is. I would hope that anyone with an RN license could take the NCLEX cold on any given day and pass easily....or that any ICU nurse could take the CCRN exam cold on any given day and pass easily.

When in the military we had people afraid of the routine rifle qualification. Instead of something to dread it should be something to look forward to as a chance to demonstrate superior ability.

We had linguists who dreaded the language proficiency exams. Same thing - if you're a linguist you should revel in the opportunity to demonstrate skill.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry to ramble...

 

[rustystud]

Yes, we have mountains in GA. The highest point (not that high) in the state is 4784 ft.

That is still a respectable height. I was unaware there was anything that high in the whole state.

 

[rustystud]

View attachment Scan0063.pdfYou can see from this chart straight from the Chevy website that the "heaviest" truck weighs 6,524 Ibs. You subtract the max payload weight from the GVWR weight. To be really accurate you would also subtract the weight of all passengers and fuel. That would bring the actual weight to around 5,500 Ibs. If your truck does indeed weight 8,300 Ibs. then you have added some serious weight to it. NO factory truck weighs in at 9,000 Ibs. Remember they must meet mileage ratings and the only way to really cut fuel usage is to cut weight. Also you can see they do not recommend towing any trailer weighing over 2,000 Ibs. that does not have it's own brakes.
As far as my "CDL" , I would not get rid of it due to the amount of paperwork and costs and other extra crap needed to get it back. It has nothing to do with taking the tests. Was your license from the military ? If so then I understand as that is not a civilian license. I too had my military license and it did not come close to the hassle of getting a civilian CDL class A license. You must pay the wage of the state trooper for the 3 hour ride for one plus all the extra fees associated with it.
So getting back to safely towing a unloaded M105 trailer with a pickup truck. The answer is yes but be careful. Safely towing a fully loaded M105 trailer ? The answer is still NO !

 

[rustystud]

Crude, bruteforce, 1/4" wall 6×6 connected to the truck's frame via 1/4" wall 2×2 and 3/8" plate. I'll eventually get around to wrapping the ends around the dually flares. The pin for the hitch receiver uses a 3/4" hole and a towbar pin.

I used it to tow my (loaded to the gills) M989A1 yesterday, off road and brakes caged. (Don't even consider towing that monster on the roads without an airbrake vehicle)

This hitch is pretty much a class 3 hitch. My class five hitch is 4'' square tube 1/4" thick walls with 3/8" thick side plates and 3/8" thick support plates. The towbar pin is nice though.

 

[rhurey]

As far as my "CDL" , I would not get rid of it due to the amount of paperwork and costs and other extra crap needed to get it back. It has nothing to do with taking the tests. Was your license from the military ? If so then I understand as that is not a civilian license. I too had my military license and it did not come close to the hassle of getting a civilian CDL class A license. You must pay the wage of the state trooper for the 3 hour ride for one plus all the extra fees associated with it.

Most states have less... um... large barriers to entering the professional driving realm. Most of those trucks on WA roads? Not been through the WA program.

There's a reason the owner of a trucking company I know loves to recruit from JBLM...

WA is the most hostile state I've seen so far for getting a CDL.

 

[Csm Davis]

View attachment 567267You can see from this chart straight from the Chevy website that the "heaviest" truck weighs 6,524 Ibs. You subtract the max payload weight from the GVWR weight. To be really accurate you would also subtract the weight of all passengers and fuel. That would bring the actual weight to around 5,500 Ibs. If your truck does indeed weight 8,300 Ibs. then you have added some serious weight to it. NO factory truck weighs in at 9,000 Ibs. Remember they must meet mileage ratings and the only way to really cut fuel usage is to cut weight. Also you can see they do not recommend towing any trailer weighing over 2,000 Ibs. that does not have it's own brakes.

Sorry to bust your chops but if you can find me a 2000 or later 1 ton 4x4 4 door long wheel base 8' bed diesel that is all there and not modified that weighs 5500 lbs I will buy it. Oh yeah you chart is almost unreadable.

 

[Mercunimog404]

View attachment 567267You can see from this chart straight from the Chevy website that the "heaviest" truck weighs 6,524 Ibs. You subtract the max payload weight from the GVWR weight. To be really accurate you would also subtract the weight of all passengers and fuel. That would bring the actual weight to around 5,500 Ibs. If your truck does indeed weight 8,300 Ibs. then you have added some serious weight to it. NO factory truck weighs in at 9,000 Ibs. Remember they must meet mileage ratings and the only way to really cut fuel usage is to cut weight. Also you can see they do not recommend towing any trailer weighing over 2,000 Ibs. that does not have it's own brakes.
As far as my "CDL" , I would not get rid of it due to the amount of paperwork and costs and other extra crap needed to get it back. It has nothing to do with taking the tests. Was your license from the military ? If so then I understand as that is not a civilian license. I too had my military license and it did not come close to the hassle of getting a civilian CDL class A license. You must pay the wage of the state trooper for the 3 hour ride for one plus all the extra fees associated with it.
So getting back to safely towing a unloaded M105 trailer with a pickup truck. The answer is yes but be careful. Safely towing a fully loaded M105 trailer ? The answer is still NO !

No offense, but if you're trying to say that a 3/4 ton or 1 ton is not able to safely tow an m105, you're mistaken. Like I said before, my v6 4Runner safely and easily tows a pop up that weighs as much as a 105 trailer. Also, my camper did not come from the factory with brakes.

http://www.trucktrend.com/ram/3500/

 

[porkysplace]

No offense, but if you're trying to say that a 3/4 ton or 1 ton is not able to safely tow an m105, you're mistaken. Like I said before, my v6 4Runner safely and easily tows a pop up that weighs as much as a 105 trailer. Also, my camper did not come from the factory with brakes.

http://www.trucktrend.com/ram/3500/

Nevada requires trailer brakes .
Page 2 of 2
Trailer Equipment Requirements
cont’d
BRAKES NRS 484.593
•
Trailers manufactured after July 1, 1975 with a
gross weight of 1500 pounds or more must be
equipped with service brakes acting on all wheels wi
th the ability to rema
in applied for at least
15 minutes, upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.
http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/equipreqtr.pdf

 

[Mercunimog404]

Nevada requires trailer brakes .
Page 2 of 2
Trailer Equipment Requirements
cont’d
BRAKES NRS 484.593
•
Trailers manufactured after July 1, 1975 with a
gross weight of 1500 pounds or more must be
equipped with service brakes acting on all wheels wi
th the ability to rema
in applied for at least
15 minutes, upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.
http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/equipreqtr.pdf

Well I'm telling you it doesn't. I'm not going to catastrophically die not having trailer breaks. It's 1900 pounds empty and when loaded is well over 2000.

 

[John Galt]

Curb weight for my 1/2 ton is listed at 5800lbs and I know drive around weight is around 6500 lbs.

A CDL doesn't make a person a safe tower or driver. It's just a piece of paper. You would probably be in shock driving around in TX but we manage.

 

[98G]

My CDL was obtained by going to a truck driving school in KY, total something like 6 weeks. I don't remember the ride along portion as 3 hours, more like half an hour. I'm sure it varies by state.

The weight I quoted for my Ram is from when I took a load to the dump. I weighed it full on their scales, and then empty and was charged for the difference. The 8300lbs was the empty weight. My previous truck was a 2004 3/4 ton. It weighed in at 7200lbs. These are actual measured weights from scales. In reading I notice that ram quotes 7700lbs on the 3500 trucks so this doesn't seem too far out of line.

Thanks for the comments on the hitch. It's primary purpose is to tow the M1101 trailers level, while being stronger than the OEM hitch that it replaced. When I need more capacity than the redtruck can easily accommodate I simply use the 5ton.

I was hesitant to tow the unbraked loaded M105A2 with the redtruck, but having done so it was no big deal. Stopping distances were not noticeably different than empty.

I went looking for information about the steepness of grades on the interstate highway system in general and WA in particular. I'm not finding anything much steeper than 7-9%, with some of the steep stuff found back east. I considered the 8% grade up Franklin Mountain to be reasonably impressive, as well as the drive between Phoenix and Flagstaff. If you've got stuff that makes that look flat and level I want to read about it, seriously. Please let me know where it is so I can see it. ....

As an aside, I feel much safer in the deuce when it has an airbraked trailer stuck to it. At least then as long as I have air I have at least some brakes, and if I lose air then the trailer's springbrakes will engage. I'm really not a big fan of single circuit brakes that when they fail you have no brakes....

 

[VPed]

My 97 3/4T 4x4 reg cab long bed diesel weighs 6900# empty. My 05 3/4T 4x4 x-cab short bed diesel weighs 7100# empty. Both w/o driver/passengers. This is from certified scales after unloading scrap metal.

Pulled an empty 105 300 miles though west Texas and much of Big Bend National Park with the 97. I did have a 1200# camper on the p/u. I had no concerns about stopping as long as roads were dry. Under frozen precip conditions, I'll admit I was working the pucker string.

You guys make good point on both sides. It can be done safely most of the time, but...there is always a chance for a but. Of course that could be said of every situation. Pictures of both below.

Peace

 

[roalcoal]

how about this m105 on a trailer with no brakes towed 200 miles no problems

 

[roalcoal]

neither trailer has brakes and was towed safely

 

[dk8019]

Some individuals have a funny idea on "towing safely". Just because you made it once, or ten times doesn't mean it was safe. Towing over weight, without brakes, on public roads isn't safe, even if no one died this time.

 

[roalcoal]

Maybe some individuals shouldn't be towing at all . Heck I seen individuals that have a car in perfect operating condition that shoudent be on the road

 

[Mercunimog404]

Not sure if you're implying it, but 2500 pounds isn't over weight.